User talk:RobinHood70/Archive2013

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This is an archive of past User talk:RobinHood70 discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.



This is awesome! So much easier than finding another page with that formatting to copy/paste for a new one every time. :D Now we just need to update the ones that do it manually to use the template instead (and by 'we need to' I mean 'I probably will later because I'm a dork who spends way too much time being nitpicky about trivial things'). :P — ABCface 05:25, 6 January 2013 (GMT)

I expect we'll be able to use the same for Creatures as well, along with anything else we have that might be like that. Of course, with Skyrim being the way it is, we may well end up merging the Creature and NPC Summaries anyway...something to look into later. I considered giving it a more generic name for that reason, but in the end, I thought there might be reasons to treat them differently, so I'll let it develop "organically"...if we need to make different "multi" templates, we can, but if they all end up being the same, well, that's what redirects are for. :)
Oh yeah, that's what I was gonna say before I started rambling incoherently: if you feel like doing existing ones, you go right ahead! :) I'm sure I could get the bot to do it by poking at it with a stick till it worked, but it'd be ugly and probably take almost as long trying to handle discrepancies and such as it would to just do them by hand anyway. I can probably run a bot job to at least identify pages with more than one NPC Summary or Creature Summary on them if you'd find that helpful, though. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:53, 6 January 2013 (GMT)

Template param check[edit]

Hey, would it be possible to make it so that images on place pages can be named something like MW-interior-name, MW-exterior-name, or MW-place-name. Currently, MW-exterior and MW-interior are placed in the Pages with incorrectly named images cat, which isn't really true. Is there any way to have the template include those two in it's check? Thanks in advance! Jeancey (talk) 21:17, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

You had to ask for something hard, didn't you? :) It's definitely doable, but I'm gonna have to give it some thought as to what's the best way. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:29, 8 January 2013 (GMT)
Okay, I think we're good to go now...I just have to find an example of such a place. I'll just look at your recent edits, I'm sure I'll find one soon enough. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 21:44, 8 January 2013 (GMT)
I believe that the South Wall Cornerclub is such a place. Thanks btw :) Jeancey (talk) 21:57, 8 January 2013 (GMT)
That's the one I used to check it, actually. Looks to be working now that I've also updated the Place Summary itself. I feel sorry for our job queue, though. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 22:05, 8 January 2013 (GMT)


Hey RobinHood70! It’s been a while since I confronted you with annoying questions on this talk page, but here is one – and it’s a serious one, actually. If you take a look at the quest stages for Hitting the Books, they look okay. Problem is, they are untrue. Mirabelle never plays a part in the quest (she was skipped for unknown reasons, but I added her missing dialogue here). What happens in-game is this: In Saarthal, Tolfdir asks you to go directly to the Arch-Mage Savis Aren. Aren then points you to Ulag and then the quest proceeds as normal. This means that a few journal entries were left in the game data (if it isn’t broken don’t fix it-Beth-attitude), but the gameplay itself changed. I have no idea what to do with it, but it needs to be mentioned – and the journal entries needs to be corrected. I hope you can solve the mystery! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 21:52, 12 January 2013 (GMT)

I had a look at it tonight, and it turns out I was overcomplicating it, having not done the quest recently. It plain and simply starts the quest at stage 20, so that's the text you get (and the note under the table is incorrect, stage 20 is the first stage in the quest, not counting startup). Since it clearly shows up in-game, I'd note it under the Bugs section, and leave the text as it is in the table. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:58, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

Nice Catch![edit]

I didn't even realize I had accidentally deleted an entire section! Nice catch!! Jeancey (talk) 06:52, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

No worries, we've all done stuff like that at times. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 06:54, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

Hey... I have some questions[edit]

I have a few complicated questions. Could you get on IRC? Jeancey (talk) 21:17, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

Note: For Jeancey, a "complicated question" might be something like, "Is it OK to order my seniors to report to me on IRC, without so much as a please?" --JR (talk) 05:15, 14 January 2013 (GMT)
I took the "Could I" as an informal "please", not a demand. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 05:17, 14 January 2013 (GMT)
JR, it was a request, not a demand :) Incidentally, I have more questions <3 Jeancey (talk) 04:24, 21 January 2013 (GMT)


For cleaning up some of my messes lately. I'm moving image files to ... write better instructions for moving image files. Obviously, it will be a bit of a process. :D --JR (talk) 05:31, 16 January 2013 (GMT)

No problem! Robin Hood  (talk) 07:02, 16 January 2013 (GMT)
I'm having my first experiences with redirects and with moving files. You, Silencer, Jak, Eshe, ... have been patient and helpful so far. I will get it down, and I hope it will pay off for the little trouble it's causing. Probably not yet completely over! --JR (talk) 07:14, 16 January 2013 (GMT)

Oblivion map links[edit]

While checking map markers, I noticed that the map links for Oblivion:The Sleeping Mare and Oblivion:The Mouth of the Panther are not working. Most other things can be found by their name, so probably adding to the map will be better than just specifying coordinates on the page. --Alfwyn (talk) 21:31, 16 January 2013 (GMT)

I don't remember off-hand what the process and criteria were for adding markers to the Oblivion map, but given that the houses right next to The Sleeping Mare are marked, it makes sense to be to mark the inn as well. I'll look up the exact coordinates in the CS and add it shortly. The Mouth of the Panther already had a map marker, just without the "The". I'm not too sure about the placement, though...seems to me it should be in the middle of the bay, since I think that's supposed to be the "mouth". I don't remember Oblivion well anymore, so there may have been a good reason to put it there. I'll look while I'm in the CS. If there's no particular reason for that placement, would you agree it should be moved to the middle of the bay? Robin Hood  (talk) 22:37, 16 January 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for looking that up. Hm, "Mouth of the Panther" is an actual map marker, located there. Wonder what the reason is the name redirects to "The Mouth of the Panther". --Alfwyn (talk) 22:47, 16 January 2013 (GMT)

Since you're watching the talk page, I have something urgent :P[edit]

Get well soon, buddy! Drink tea, it helps! :) --Snowmane(talk) 23:37, 17 January 2013 (GMT)
I have been, thanks! Probably time for some more, though. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:48, 17 January 2013 (GMT)

Savos Aren sleeping bug[edit]

Hey RobinHood70! Here’s another quick bug question, although I suspect he usual radius problem. In the College of Winterhold, Arch-Mage Savos Aren was supposed to sleep between 1am and 6am. Unfortunately, he just wanders around all night long, doing what looks like his usual Sandbox routine. Bed too far away or…..? Thanks in advance! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 23:40, 22 January 2013 (GMT)

Yup, it's a radius thing again. Radius is set to 500, but the bed is something like 1300 units away. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:40, 23 January 2013 (GMT)
Thanks a lot! :) --Krusty (talk) 06:12, 23 January 2013 (GMT)

Hey Robin, long time no see[edit]

Saw some conflicting information on the Skyrim:Shadowmere page, took a shot at it and noticed that there was a formula that used the conflicting information. Since I'm not sure where the formula came from and if it's been changed with a patch I thought I'd ask the guy who always seemed to know what he was doing. It's in the notes section (2 notes, you can see my edit in history). Think you could take a stab at it? Mikeyboy52 (talk) 05:32, 23 January 2013 (GMT)

Your edit is certainly correct, but I see what you mean about the forumula. I'm not sure where that came from either, but I'll see what I can figure out. Nice to see you back! Robin Hood  (talk) 05:49, 23 January 2013 (GMT)
I think you've stumbled onto something. The formula's math as written currently doesn't work, unless I'm completely misunderstanding something. Going back, I found there was a different formula previously. The original was added here and then the changes were made here by the same editor. Guess it's time for some in-game investigation! Robin Hood  (talk) 06:11, 23 January 2013 (GMT)
Well, that was an amusing bit of research. The original editor had the right idea and the right base numbers, just an incorrect understanding of the health regeneration formula. Doing a little in-game verification, I was able to confirm his numbers and just tweak the formula results to the correct values. The amusing part was that I couldn't figure out why the combat healing multiplier wasn't kicking in...then it occurred to me to get off the horse and let Shadowmere actually enter combat instead of just standing there stupidly while I measured his health. :) Right away, his health regen skyrocketed. It's actually so high when he's in combat, it's hard to measure because anything less than dragon bites and similar high-powered attacks heals almost instantly, and even high-powered attacks heal in just a couple of seconds. Robin Hood  (talk) 08:33, 23 January 2013 (GMT)
Seems you've still got the passion required. Glad to know I came to the right guy :) Sorry for the semi-slow response, I was celebrating my recent promotion with some buddies. Back on topic, I thought that the formula was incorrect but had no way to see it. How did you get the formula? Was it through the Creation Kit or some high-end mathematics and observation in-game? I assume CK but I can't figure out how to get to the formulas? Care to point me in the right direction?? Mikeyboy52 (talk) 08:43, 23 January 2013 (GMT)
The basic idea is covered in the first bullet of Restoring Health. Once I understood that, I used a combination of the Console and the CK to verify and modify values, just to be sure I understood. It took me a minute to wrap my head around the idea that Shadowmere actually heals faster in combat than out of it, but once I had that idea down, the rest was just timing healing rates to confirm...oh, and hunting down cliffs to jump off of and more powerful monsters than wolves!
Congratulations on the promotion! Robin Hood  (talk) 08:52, 23 January 2013 (GMT)

Help!!! Cant seem to get the hold of this.[edit]

I've tried a few things but can't get the hold of putting an image over a local map marker. I'm trying to put an image instead of a number and 1, can't resize it and 2, unwanted text is showing. User:Mikeyboy52/Shadowmarks Sandbox will show you what I'm trying to do. Either reply here or go ahead and make the change to the 1st one (I want to make sure I get the hold of it this time). I'd appreciate the help and due to the fact that I've never been able to navigate the help files and that I now know absolutely no one (save you) on the wiki I've no where else to turn. Mikeyboy52 (talk) 09:31, 6 February 2013 (GMT)

Hey Mikeyboy52, hope you don't mind me replying to your question. It looks like you almost had it right there. You need to specify the size of the image in px units, not in p units, so your 64p wouldn't work, but 64px will. Also, 64px is still quite large, so try 25px instead, perhaps.
{{Image Mark|291|618|[[File:SR-icon-shadowmark-Danger.png|25px|Amren's House]]|mark_alt=Amren's House||position=on}} 
Hope that helps. Darictalk 12:23, 6 February 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for making this an easy question to answer, Daric. ;) Robin Hood  (talk) 20:52, 6 February 2013 (GMT)

Eventually got the resizing down, been looking for a way to reposition the image without moving the mapmarker. Know of any way that wouldn't require me to double the amount of code?Mikeyboy52 (talk) 08:23, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

Like move the entire thing, including the map markers, to the right of the screen or something? I think you'd want to put it inside <div></div> tags, or maybe in a table, then just reposition that. If that's not what you meant, or you need help with the table/div formatting, let me know. (I'm on my way to bed, so anyone else following this, feel free to answer if more help is needed.) Robin Hood  (talk) 09:37, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

Help please?[edit]

ABCface showed me the Sandbox Space template, since I want to make User:Eric Snowmane/Bedt show the Morrowind formatting of things, rather than Skyrim, however it doesn't appear to be effective. As the creator of that template, I imagine you'd have some ideas of telling pages what other namespaces they should display, and I was wondering if you'd be able to help me out. Given the large amount of NPC Summary boxes I am employing in that sandbox, it would be rather helpful if I could see them as they are supposed to, rather than the boxes omitting the information as being in the wrong namespace. Thanks in advance. Jo'Sakhar (talk) 10:48, 6 February 2013 (GMT)

I knew when creating it that the Sandbox Space template wouldn't be universally effective, and on the flip side, that there would be cases where it would be effective, but we wouldn't want it to be. Thankfully, in this case, it seems to have been a simple fix to the NPC Summary template. Let me know if you notice any further problems, either with that template or with any others. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:52, 6 February 2013 (GMT)
You're amazing, you know that? Thanks! Now the sandbox looks like it ought to :) Jo'Sakhar (talk) 21:20, 6 February 2013 (GMT)

Regarding XCGD records in TES5MOD files[edit]

These records have always been present in the console versions of Dawnguard.esm and Hearthfires.esm. --selyb (talk) 15:27, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, the Xbox .esm's are different in several minor ways, mostly for CELL/WRLD stuff. So far I haven't found any differences that are wiki relevant (NPC's, quests, items, dialogues). This at least explains why Nephele's Dawnguard.esm seemed so strange. The 1.8 Update.esm was identical for Xbox and PC, I don't have access to an Xbox Hearthfire.esm or Skyrim.esm at the moment. It will be interesting to see how PS3 .esm's look like. --Alfwyn (talk) 16:14, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
Skyrim.esm is identical for PS3 and Xbox. It is stored in Big-Endian while the other esms are not. The Xbox (and probably PS3) will happily use the PC versions of any of the esms but it loads incredibly slow. If we use the PC Hearthfires.esm on Xbox, the terrain changes do not load properly. Until I learned that the PC Dragonborn had XCGD records, I believed them to be the missing info for the terrain but now I'm not so sure. TES5Edit will load the console versions but complains about XCGD record being unexpected or out of order. If there is any other info you want, I would be more than happy to help :) selyb (talk) 19:27, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
The PC version of DB has no XCGD fields either, that info was from an Xbox version. Beside that, the Xbox version contains way more/longer RNAM fields in WRLD records. --Alfwyn (talk) 20:18, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for the info, guys. I've mostly been parsing info with a view to getting it out of the ESM and onto our articles, so I haven't been analyzing field variations between add-ons or platforms very much. If there's anything that needs to be updated on Tes5Mod, I'll trust you guys to make it. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:26, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
Ahh, my mistake then. I saw the XCGD info here and assumed it was from PC. I may be able to help a little more if you guys can tell me how to remove all compression from an esm. selyb (talk) 20:35, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
No, I'm processing the info on a PC, but the original file is from Xbox (or at least it was; I now have the PC version). I'm not sure how you'd go about removing compression. I suspect you'd have to create a custom program to do that, unless Tes5Edit or something similar has a feature like that already built in. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:41, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

Quick question[edit]

Hey RH! Can you take a look at this edit. I'm almost sure we/you determined it to three days back then? --Krusty (talk) 17:34, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

One more thing - this note was removed by this edit:
* Pickpocketing the Hjerim key from Tova before the quest will grant you access to Hjerim, but you still have to meet the requirements for the quest to start.
The new bug system is great, but I can't figure out where to put it? :D --Krusty (talk) 18:46, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
Okay, so as you'll probably see on the page, the first issue is that three full calendar days have to pass, not counting the remainder of the current day. I wasn't sure how best to describe it, but hopefully, my wording is clear enough.
For the second one, I had moved it into the Notes section, but then Morollan moved it into the body of the text itself in this edit, and I see you removed it after that. Looking at the scripting, at this point, it obviously wants the quest to be running already before triggering anything, so I can see three possibilities as to why someone had the quest update just by entering, but you can't get repeat that in testing:
  1. The most likely option is that those conditions didn't used to be there, and they were added in an update at some point. (Patch 1.14.5 looks like a likely candidate: "Fixed numerous issues with Blood on the Ice not triggering properly".) Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any way to examine the older scripting unless someone has a disk-based PC version to reinstall or a backup of an older install.
  2. While an uncommon thing to do, it looks like it'd be possible to trigger the basic quest requirements (4 entries, after 7pm) and then go straight to Hjerim, so you might not be aware that the graveyard scene had already started.
  3. And of course, the obvious fallback position: there may just be something I've missed and there is some buggy way you can get around the normal requirements.
In any event, my suggestion would be to put it under the Initiating the Quest section, but add a VN parameter, or maybe even a full tag that explains that this may be a fixed bug. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:04, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for looking into it. However, I think we should clarify exactly what we mean by “requirements” for this quest to start. It all comes down to what is currently in the “How to trigger the quest”-section. I just tested it with a character fresh out of Helgen, and with the latest patch installed, and it is nowhere near possible to trigger the quest by pickpocketing the key from Tova and entering Hjerim. The quest NEEDS to be initiated by the three visits, otherwise you will meet a bugged Hjerim when you enter, where all the evidence is inactive (and referred to as InvestigationTarget).
Now, since it is impossible NOT to trigger the quest when doing the Stormcloaks quest line, I guess this is where the confusion starts. Basically you will have to enter Windhelm to get the Join the Stormcloaks quest, enter Windhelm again to get the Jagged Crown quest – and when you return you will have entered a third time and the quest will be available. At that point, Hjerim’s lock will change and you can use the Tova-trick (even if doing this will screw up the quest stages as mentioned in the bugs section and later in this post). So it will always be best to enter between 7pm and 7am.
So basically, when Ulfric makes Hjerim available after Rescue from Fort Neugrad, the requirements for the quest will have been met several times and you can easily trigger it. The thing ‘fixed’ by the patch (just tested this) is whether or not Jorleif will sell Hjerim to you if BOTI hasn’t been completed. Once upon a time, he wouldn’t sell the house due to ‘the mess inside’ (dialogue escapes me), but this seems to be eliminated now (can you see this change anywhere?). Now you can buy Hjerim whether or not you have started BOTI on the graveyard – and in the process providing the happy new homeowner with a strange quest without any backstory. In short, you skip the graveyard scene, the witnesses, the scene in the Hall of the Dead, making the quest more or less incomprehensible if you are unfamiliar with it.
Back to the topic at hand (I just had to share the Hjerim tests), here's an idea – wouldn’t it solve everything if we simply added the fact that you can check whether or not the requirements has been met – by checking the Hjerim lock? --Krusty (talk) 21:52, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
Interesting point about the Stormcloaks quest line. That would be an easy way to trigger the quest without noticing. Great idea about checking the Hjerim lock. Since that's part of the setup scripting, it's guaranteed that if that's no longer a "key required" lock, you've successfully met the requirements and initialized the quest. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:10, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

Dragonsreach bug[edit]

Hey so saw you added that guard hostility bug, I'm pretty sure that has been fixed for a long while. Was a 1.3 or 1.4 caused thing. I remember it but it got fixed I'm almost positive. Lord Eydvar Talk|Contribs 05:50, 19 February 2013 (GMT)

I'm using the most recent version and it just occurred to me, so I Googled it and got a number of hits, though admittedly, many appear to be older. I checked all the usual suspects: I'm not a vampire or werewolf, I have no outstanding crimes, and nobody in Dragonsreach hates me. Unless something like the USKP has inadvertently reintroduced the bug, it seems to still be happening. I also don't see any fix note for it in either the main patch notes or the various USKP ones. If it is fixed, and this is a one-off reoccurrence, then we should still list the bug and mark what fixed it. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:01, 19 February 2013 (GMT)
Okay yeah I just saw your post and it occurred to me. I had that glitch a long time ago and a patch fixed it on my game. So yeah idk what causes it or if it was indeed fixed for good. Possibly was reactivated by 1.8 or USKP. Lord Eydvar Talk|Contribs 06:04, 19 February 2013 (GMT)

Thanks for the edit[edit]

Thanks for editting my talk page to include Mr. Michaeldsuarez's talk, Contribution, and email links by his user. It gives the page a better overall visual aesthetic. --LilithChan (talk) 00:28, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

Actually, all I did was convert them from the templates they were using; the links were there previously. Templates other than {{Unsigned}} and its relatives are generally discouraged in signatures. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:35, 22 February 2013 (GMT)


Hey was going to see about applying for Blocker status but got told for that you have to contact and Admin directly. Lord Eydvar Talk|Contribs 06:29, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Yes, you do...and I'm not one. :) Technically, since I'm a server admin, I could do it, but it's unwieldy for me, and it would go beyond what I'm expected to use my server admin role for. Just post to the Administrator Noticeboard and someone there will decide. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:32, 26 February 2013 (GMT)
K thanks will do. Lord Eydvar Talk|Contribs 06:35, 26 February 2013 (GMT)


What's this? What does that explanation mean/when does it happen? Does it happen on cell clear/reset? It's relevant to Balbus not despawning. Thanks! Vely►t►e 21:15, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

My best guess, based partly on the description, partly on other pages that talk about "attached" and "detached", and partly on where I see it being used, is that it means the object is deleted when it leaves the zone it comes from. So, for example, when you're far enough away from the cell that it's no longer loaded, and possibly when you transition from an interior cell to an unrelated exterior cell (like the back doors some places have). It looks like it would also apply when a game is saved and reloaded. It might also happen on picking up an item. Those are all just guesses, though. I found one page where others were asking the same thing, so we're not alone in taking guesses. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:02, 26 February 2013 (GMT)
Hm, I thought that might be a possibility as well. Thanks for looking at it. Vely►t►e 23:31, 26 February 2013 (GMT)


Hey RH! A very quick question – as you can see in this sandbox, we are listing all the people who wants a taste of the Sujamma. However, I can’t get Gjalund Salt-Sage to participate in the fun, as the dialogue option never appears. Can you see anything wrong? Also, if you can help with the requirements for the three different replies you can get from Adril Arano that would be really great. Hope you have the time for a bit of good ol’ investigation! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 23:48, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

Hmmm...very odd! I don't see anything that would prevent Gjalund from participating, at least not unless he's already been given one. The conditions on him look identical to the conditions on any of the other participants. As far as Adril goes, the conditions are all the same, it's just the timing that seems to change. The "What" line should be said only once every 24 hours. The "Sorry" line should only be said once, ever. Finally, the "Oh, wonderful" line should be said as often as every six hours. So, my guess based on that is that he'll resist at first, but if you pester him, he'll give in...but I'd definitely want someone to confirm that in game.
And on that note, all of the participants who accept have their lines reset every six hours, so I suspect that's all you have to wait to give a second sample to the same person. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:05, 9 March 2013 (GMT)
I can confirm that you can give Sujamma to the same person more than once. Soonest I've done is after 12 in-game hours, but 6 is also possible. • JAT 01:21, 9 March 2013 (GMT)
Jak, you are absolutely correct. There's a bug there. Also, Gjalund seems to be bugged - just did some testing and he will only accept the Sujamma when docked in Windhelm. Seems like they got the scripts wrong or something. Lastly, I can't get Adril to accept the drink no matter what. A bit of testing is needed, but I'm running out of ideas. I have tested it before the main quest, during the main quest - and after. And all I get is the "What? Oh. No thank you. I need to keep my head clear."-response. --Krusty (talk) 07:28, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

Go for the eyes Boo, GO FOR THE EYES!![edit]

This cracked me up: In the words of Minsc, "That's not right!" I think I have to re-start Baldur's Gate this week :D. eshetalk 13:58, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

Hahaha...glad someone got it. I was afraid it might be too old of a reference. :P I haven't reinstalled either BG or BG2 since upgrading to Windows 8, but I definitely will at some point. Great games! Robin Hood  (talk) 18:44, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

New Problem[edit]

Hey RH! Time for another problem – it’s about the bit of conversation between Othreloth and Adril Arano found here. I can’t seem to trigger it anymore – even if I remember seeing it at an earlier walkthrough. Rumor has it that Jeancey remember the conversation as well, so I’m pretty puzzled. As far as I remember, Adril simply emerged in the Temple and the conversation started – that being said, I’m only 90% certain because I wasn’t paying much attention. Can you take a look on the conditions needed to initiate that convo? I have tested an awful lot of things but apparently not the right ones. Thanks in advance! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 17:31, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

Oh crap! I was looking at Morvayn all along. They start off with the same line of dialogue by Adril and I never noticed I was looking at the wrong one. I've hidden that, just so as to not distract from the question at hand. I'll investigate the "real" dialogue and report back. Sorry for the confusion. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:26, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

I agree with Roger's analysis here (in the hidden section). There seems to be no way of triggering that scene unless you can somehow get Adril into the temple, where he never seems to go, at least not according to anything I can see in the CK. About the only point of interest I can add to what he said is that there's a trigger on the ship itself that seems to change whether the dialogue is available in the temple. If I'm understanding correctly, and I'm not at all sure I am, each time you wander near the mast of the ship, it checks/updates which dialogue is available. If I'm correct in that, then if you can get Adril and Othreloth to talk to each other at all, then you'd have to do it without boarding the ship again after you leave. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:57, 16 March 2013 (GMT)
I can confirm that if you can get Adril into the temple, the dialogue is available, but how many times you've been in the trigger area on the ship seems to make no difference. I'm not sure what the trigger does, in that case—it may just be some kind of initiation for several different dialogues. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:12, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

Could you help me with a templating issue again please?[edit]

Hi Robin Hood, your help on my recent foray into templating my sandboxes was really appreciated. I'm now trying to expand on what we achieved earlier. No, I haven't yet got up the nerve to start playing with {{#listsaved}}, so that's not it. What I am trying to do now is to add a table inside one of rpeh's boxes, which I use extensively in my userspace these days. It may seem like a trivial matter, but I have tried everything I can think of to get this to work. It doesn't accept a standard wikitable, and I have tried {{!}} templating out the vertical bars, and I've also tried creating a straight HTML <table>..</table> block. None of these seem to work when my code is nested within a box.

If you get a chance, please have a look at my Sandbox Pa, which gives an example of the use I want to put the box to. If you can imagine it, I'd like to have a 100px Padlock in the right hand side of the box, and have multiple lines of text in the middle section, so a table with three columns, one row should do it. Once it's there, I'll manipulate the padlock to work in conjunction with the {{Editing Allowed}} template, as I don't want a second message box at the top of my Sandbox just for the collaboration options (the text of which I will work in to the center column of the box instead). Feel free to edit my Sandbox Pa, and I have a sneaking suspicion that it might also require changes to my monobook.css, which you're also welcome to edit. My knowledge of CSS is very limited at present. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer with this, and of course, as always, you're welcome to take a copy of anything you like from this userspace project for your own userspace. Darictalk 18:26, 20 March 2013 (GMT)

I suspect it's a matter of getting everything just right, which can be tricky. I've had some issues myself with nested wikitables, so whenever I'm having difficulty, as you suggested, I tend to revert to a standard HTML table to avoid complications. The main thing to remember with embedded HTML tables is that they usually have equals signs in them, which the template parser will interpret as you trying to assign a value to a variable. To avoid that, specify the unnamed parameters explicitly. Have a look at what I did in your sandbox and see if that does what you're thinking. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:24, 20 March 2013 (GMT)
Oh and for the record, editing other users' CSS and JS pages is explicitly forbidden to non-admins by the MediaWiki software, so if it had been necessary, no, I couldn't have edited your monobook.css page. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 19:28, 20 March 2013 (GMT)
Do you know, last night I searched for parameter names in the box template so that I could do exactly what you have done in my sandbox, but I only saw the parameter numbers in use, no names, so I thought it couldn't be done! I was on the right track, but I never thought of using the parameter numbers like that. Thank you, I owe you one. Like I used to say cheekily to my PC repair customers way back when, you could claim "that will be $x for the repair, and $x for training fees while you watched over my shoulder" hehe. Darictalk 00:25, 21 March 2013 (GMT)
Hehehe...yeah, specifically numbering parameters is one of those things that's so obvious, you'd never think to try it. :) I remember having a similar revelation when I first came across them. Just be careful of doing things like {{Example|1=Hello|World}}. The results are perhaps not what you'd think. The 1= is seen as a named parameter, which then gets overridden by the first unnamed parameter, so parameter 1 is "World" in a call like that, the "1=Hello" is effectively ignored. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:41, 21 March 2013 (GMT)


Hi Robin, I was trying to make the Dragonborn pages for Generic Magic Armor and Generic Magic Weapons match the Skyrim pages Generic Magic Apparel and Generic Magic Weapons. Its easy enough, however it is taking alot longer then I expected, it took me an hour just to make that one edit! It might just be me who is slow but at this rate it will probably take me all week. Would this be something that could be done quicker with a bot? o.o — Kimi the Elf (talk | contribs) 11:51, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

I haven't delved into items as yet, so I can't do it by bot per se, but using the CS List database, I can give you a head start, at least. Have a look at User:RobinHood70/Zain. It doesn't have everything, cuz I can't figure out how to get the enchanting cost from the database (and even if I could, it's too complex to do easily anyway), and I have no idea how the level is calculated, but it should make your job a bit easier, at least. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:34, 23 March 2013 (GMT)
Yeah this is great thanks! I left out the level column, I couldn’t figure it out either. ^_^ — Kimi the Elf (talk | contribs) 20:28, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

Template HELP![edit]

Hey RH! Got directed to you since Jak's away. I need help creating a template - I want to create one similarly to {{SkyrimBox}} but more suited per say to the Oblivion style and namespace. Think you could help me out please? -Helenaannevalentine(talk) 00:01, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

{{SkyrimBox}} was Jak's baby, so I'm not terribly familiar with how it works. You'd want to create graphics for the corners as a start (if you search the template, you'll see the File: links). After that, I think it should just be a matter of tweaking colours and styles, but there might be a bit more to it than that. If you can get images of the corners, though, we can play around from there. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:07, 24 March 2013 (GMT)
I've tried making an Oblivion Box twice, but I simply couldn't get a good border image that tiled perfectly with the corners while looking Oblivion-y. The issue is that I can make the decorated borders stretch just fine, but I can't get it to consistently line up with the corners. • JAT 07:31, 24 March 2013 (GMT)
Yes, it is not as easy as it seems, Jak. I just tried modifying your existing images and creating a whole new set of them for this OblivionBox, but they didn't line up properly either. Rotating and flipping the images in GIMP is a pretty inexact science when used by someone like me with fairly limited experience. I think I can do it though, and I'm happy to keep trying. Darictalk 08:59, 24 March 2013 (GMT)
Yeah just woke up to find this here. Daric must've done something while I slept through the night. The only thing is, I don't want to touch it, I may wreck it. So, like what's next? I was going to see if we could make the template page itself, but from the looks of it, it seems complicated! -Helenaannevalentine(talk) 17:36, 24 March 2013 (GMT)
Anyone who wants to do it, or help Helena do it, is more than welcome. I've got a splitting headache today, so I'm pretty much ignoring the world unless it's critical. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:37, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

() The next step, Hel, is to decide whether those corners are okay. I'm not the best artist around, but I tried to make them look like the the curve in the top left corner of this image that you linked me to in IRC. If what I did is close enough, then the next step after that is to set the colours (or colors for you Americans) and then we can copy it from from your Sandbox and into its own place in template land, {{OblivionBox}}. Then we copy the /Doc supbage to it, and do the same with the subpages /Start and /End, editing the filenames for the corner images along the way. Once it is all done, you can make use of it exactly the same way as you would for {{SkyrimBox}}. It all begins by deciding if my simplistic artwork is good enough. I've got broad shoulders. I don't mind if think it sux. Darictalk 21:07, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

I'm personally not too keen on Daric's version, because it's not very Oblivion-like, and without that linked image I had no idea where it came from. However, I may be able to make a box that looks like the one in the linked image. Give me a few weeks and I should have a usable result. • JAT 23:53, 24 March 2013 (GMT)
Awesome Jak, thanks for that. I'm happy to leave it with you. Darictalk 03:27, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

Re: Damage Reduction from Armor[edit]

I thought to have a percentage in the formula itself as a way of indicating very blatantly that the result was to be perceived as a percentage (e.g. 10 × 0.5% = 5%), but you're right that laymen could still misinterpret it.  In all practicality, I think excluding the percent sign as you've done will suffice.  Consensus reached.  —Proton[talk] 10:10, 26 March 2013 (GMT)

A majority of the edits to a talk page are from users I'm not conversing with and/or conversations I'm not part of, so I prefer simply keeping my own talk page on a watchlist and being notified only when something is directed at me.  As for my signature, I see no reason why it can't be a template; being able to make broad, clean changes to all of my signatures simultaneously pleases me, because otherwise I'll end up finding everything I ever signed and changing it manually, which is precisely the behavior templates exist to replace.  —Proton[talk] 19:21, 26 March 2013 (GMT)
Both are matters of site policy. It's very difficult to keep track of a conversation when it's spread over multiple pages, and unless there's a very good reason to move a discussion, it typically should remain where it started. If your talk page is becoming too lengthy, then you should archive it. The reason why not to use a template as a signature is that it adds a significant workload to every page that includes it on the servers, and editing your signature could slow down the site significantly (I've seen some template edits slow down the site for nearly a day). What you should do is replace {{User:Proton/Signature}} with {{subst:User:Proton/Signature}}. There's nothing wrong with saving your signature as a template - actively linking to it is the issue. • JAT 19:45, 26 March 2013 (GMT)
 :(  —Proton[talk] 20:07, 26 March 2013 (GMT)

Facebook and CFS/ME[edit]

Hiya just looked at your page to try and get some more idea for how to create mine. I too have CFS/ME and have been almost housebound for the last 9years only really going out for appointments and important events. I'm very fortunate to have a loving wife who looks after me with the help of our two daughters. I hope you are having a 'good day' I know how relative that can be though. I've sent you a friend request on facebook, which is where I go to play mindless games when not up to playing oblivion/skyrim/assassin's creed games. I'm sure you can understand it takes me quite a while to take info in, but I will continue to improve on my edits/posts. Take care. (Benet Houkes)Biffa (talk) 11:23, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

Yes, I can definitely understand that! At first I ignored your request on FB, cuz I read FB before I read UESP, so you might've been blocked temporarily. Once I got here, though, I discovered who you were and undid that. :) It sounds to me like we're at about the same level of functioning, though you've had it a couple of years longer than I have. Like you, my partner takes care of me in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to things like groceries and such that are outside the house. Thanks for the well wishes, I hope you're doing well as well. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:23, 7 April 2013 (GMT)


Thanks for your help adding the templates! There were a few pages that were in the categories that didn't need the template, but that can't really be helped. I think I removed the template from all the irrelevant pages. Thanks again! Jeancey (talk) 07:12, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

You're welcome! And yeah, it was either do it by category or do it by using "What Links Here" on the various relevant templates. The latter might have been more accurate, but there's always the chance it would've missed pages that, for whatever reason, legitimately didn't have a template on them. I figured it was better to add too many than not enough. (Though looking at your contribution history, I didn't realize there were quite that many! Sorry about that. In the past, the categories have been pretty accurate for this sort of thing...not so much in MW space.) Robin Hood  (talk) 07:14, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
(edit conflict) I do have a template question though. I used autolink so that people could just put their username, and not have to link it, but I realized that if you wanted to put something like "already written" or "already added", it would try to link that. Is there anyway to make it so that it won't try and think those? Like it only links it if the user exists? Jeancey (talk) 07:17, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
You can either adapt the template to look for specific, common variants like you've mentioned (there's a couple in the SRQRP version already...didn't look if you copied them to yours), or you can also use #ifexistx to check if the user has a user page. Of course, that'll still happily refuse to link someone who has an account but has left their user page blank. Just FYI, I'm on my way to bed now, so if you have any further questions, I won't be getting back to you till tomorrow. Robin Hood  (talk) 07:32, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
So could I do {{#ifexistx:{{Autolink|{{{interior}}}|ns_base=User}}}}? Would that work? Jeancey (talk) 19:59, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
#ifexistx expects only the name of the page, so I think you'd want something like: {{#ifexistx:User:{{{interior}}}|[[User:{{{interior}}}|{{{interior}}}]]|{{{interior}}}}}. You could use Autolink instead of a hard link to shorten the code, but since you're already checking the page's existence, it's sort of redundant to also use Autolink. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:09, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

A hello[edit]

We seem to have a lot in common. I'm a lesbian and often housebound from CFS and Acute fibromyalgia. My partner and I tag team game playing, taking turns going through each scenario 2 or more times. And gads but I HATE CFS! Sniffles (talk) 13:38, 16 April 2013 (GMT)

I'm thankful that I don't have Fibro along with the CFS, but yes, I definitely do hate it! Thanks for stopping by my page! :) Robin Hood  (talk) 22:01, 16 April 2013 (GMT)

What place?[edit]

What place is referred to in your edit in Discerning the Transmundane?MortenOSlash (talk) 21:48, 16 April 2013 (GMT)

Forget it. I see you have removed it already. —MortenOSlash (talk) 21:50, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
I was reverting at the same time you were posting, even for different reasons. I had been referring to Alftand, but I realized it's irrelevant, as none of the three mentioned are elves anyway. Strangely, though, at least two corpses that I noticed, Endrast and Yag gra-Gortwog are being cleaned up by something if you leave for a while, though Valie isn't. It makes some of the text in the Blood Harvest section of that page a little less useful. I'm not sure exactly why some of them are being cleaned up but others aren't...still looking in the CK to see if I can figure it out. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:54, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
I found that out too, after you had removed it, but as I think you guessed was that I did not see any connection to a place where your contribution was placed, and it left my a bit puzzled. That was all. —MortenOSlash (talk) 21:59, 16 April 2013 (GMT)

Need some help[edit]

May I have your help? I don't know what's wrong with the templete here. Could you fix it for me? If you have any ideas about this page, please let me know. This is the first time for me to create a new page. As a matter of fact, I'm a little nervous now. Dreamshadow (talk) 08:42, 18 April 2013 (GMT)

I'll jump in here. It's not working because it is in Userspace. It'll work fine when it is launched. Jeancey (talk) 09:10, 18 April 2013 (GMT)
I see. Thank you very much. Glad to see everything is ok. Dreamshadow (talk) 12:54, 18 April 2013 (GMT)
I made a change to your sandbox a few minutes ago. That should fix it. You can remove the template I added whenever you move the page into Skyrim space. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:54, 18 April 2013 (GMT)
Very well, it works. Thank you. I've got another question for you. Have you got a minute? Please take a look at here. Dreamshadow (talk) 22:40, 18 April 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim Stores[edit]

Hey RH! I have a problem. You may have noticed that I’m in the process of starting out a Skyrim House Redesign Project in my sandbox but then I ran into a major issue, and I can’t figure out how to solve it. It’s about the stores in Skyrim (and Solstheim). On all our store pages (example) we have sections that list the “Displayed Merchandise” and “Standard Merchandise”, which is fine. The problem occurs when you try to figure out what is on display and what is just the ‘normal’ contents of the house, e.g. food and books. Is there a way to extract the remaining items from the CK – so I can make a normal house section to go underneath the Displayed Merchandise section? I hope this made sense – and thanks in advance. ☺ --Krusty (talk) 20:00, 18 April 2013 (GMT)

Off-hand, I can't think of a way to do that. Even determining what constitutes a store is something I'd have some difficulty with, never mind figuring out which of the contents are sellable and which aren't. I'm sure there's a way, but it's beyond what I know how to do. Sorry! Robin Hood  (talk) 22:09, 18 April 2013 (GMT)
Okay, looks like I'll have to buy all the merchandise and list whatever is left. I'll see if I can somehow make tat guideline within the project. Thanks! --Krusty (talk) 22:42, 18 April 2013 (GMT)


Hey there Rob! Wondering if you could help along the lines of more template work. Sorry to be such a bother, I wish I could do these kinds of things myself...but as soon as I see ton of thickets and coding I immediately freak out and panic...cause you know I could break the wiki and all that :p Basically I saw that the template for the cleanup of pages under the category have just a singular notice, and I was wondering if you could perhaps change that to similarly style that of the Cleanup-obnpcrp, where it has the "show/hide" and also the parameters to be filled out along with the checked parameters. Basically all the project would need is the following: summary, summaryChecked, houseinventory, houseinventoryChecked, description, descriptionChecked, residents, residentsChecked, relatedquests and relatedquestsChecked I know it's a lot to ask considering you've already contributed quite a bit to this project, but if you can't do it (and that's perfectly fine), Jeancey said he'd do it tomorrow I could always bug him about it ;) -helenaanne  talk ♥ 23:03, 20 April 2013 (GMT)

I actually have a spare moment. Let me hack something together real quick. • JAT 23:32, 20 April 2013 (GMT)
Done! I didn't implement the large array of categories that the OBNPCRP template has, instead just opting for "Not Complete" and "Requires Final Review". We can add more categories if we wish to. Note, however, that this project overlaps a bit with the OBNPCRP project, specifically this section. It will have to be modified or removed, along with the relevant parts of the cleanup template. • JAT 23:47, 20 April 2013 (GMT)
I modified it a tad. Also, Jak, I believe the idea is to move the house contents from the NPC page to the house page. All the house contents are apparently written for the OBNPCRP, so I would say that it can just be straight moved, or, if it hasn't been checked yet, check it, move it, and mark the OBNPCRP template as checked. Jeancey (talk) 23:49, 20 April 2013 (GMT)
Sorry, I was away for dinner. I had assumed it would need additional coding along the lines you mentioned, I just didn't know what you wanted specifically, so I put in something simple to make it obvious the pages were under construction, and to create at least one category to make the pages easy to find.
One idea I had for templates like this is that rather than having, for example, summary and summaryChecked, do we want to have something like summaryInGame and summaryCS (or whatever other style of names you want to use...maybe just IG instead of InGame)? That would eliminate the need to constantly remind people that it's supposed to be one of each where possible, and would make it clear which one(s) a person has based their edits on. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:33, 21 April 2013 (GMT)

faction link thingy[edit]

I didn't even think of that! Sorry about that! :P Jeancey (talk) 02:50, 21 April 2013 (GMT)

That's okay, I didn't think of the other class links on the various NPC pages. I'm about to run through the shower and then make some tea, so if you're looking for something to do, you can fix any others (I think there's only a few), but if you're busy, I'll do them myself in about half an hour. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:51, 21 April 2013 (GMT)
Done, I believe. There was only one that I spotted. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:35, 21 April 2013 (GMT)

Me again, getting in over my head[edit]

Hi RobinHood70, my way-too-complicated userspace is giving me trouble again, and I was wondering if you could help me out again? If you have the time, could you take a look at this problem that I seem to have caused for myself. I think it has something to do with {{NESTLEVEL}}, which I am not yet sure how to use. Thanks in advance. Daric 03:23, 21 April 2013 (GMT)

I didn't look at the entire code, but I spotted the immediate problem after a little playing around. I've changed the relevant pages in your user space. The problem was that by noincluding the #load statement, it was never occurring on any pages you were transcluding. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:46, 21 April 2013 (GMT)
Such a simple little thing. Thanks RH, I'll put away that heavy {{NESTLEVEL}} mallet now that I was trying to fix this with. It'll be something else for me to learn about later though, like {{#listsaved}}. I'm building a collection of templating tools that I don't yet use, but I know they are available, I just don't know how to use them properly. 😈 Daric 04:15, 21 April 2013 (GMT)
I was in the same place a few years ago. Some of them are definitely harder to wrap your head around than others. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 04:17, 21 April 2013 (GMT)
By the way, did you see my little mashup of {{Happy Zone}} with {{Perk Tree}}, which resulted in my {{GaerNav}} template? When two great ideas collide, they can make something new and useful. Haha. Daric 04:28, 21 April 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, I was noticing that. Great idea. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:42, 21 April 2013 (GMT)

Invitation to join a translating team.[edit]

Please help us translate this
Dear RobinHood70,

You are invited to join a team that will be attempting to translate the unknown language on the Word Wall in the 6th Chapter of the Black Book Waking Dreams, the Word Wall that gives the third word ( D3V ) of the Dragon Aspect shout. There are strange, moving words behind the Dragon Language text on the Wall, written in an unrecognisable language. The Dragon Language part of the Word Wall has already been translated. It is the moving words in the unrecognisable language that this project hopes to translate.

This project will be happening in my sandbox, which is open to collaboration by invited team members. The talk page of the sandbox is open to other contributors as well. I hope to see you get involved in the project. I have hand-picked you because you may have previously been involved in Elder Scrolls language translations in the past on the wiki, particularly if you worked on the Magic Script Alphabet or the Elder Alphabet pages.

Visit my sandbox Veh here.

Kind regards,
Daric Gaersmith

User-Daric Gaersmith-gaerleg navtitle.png

Daric 12:16, 23 April 2013 (GMT)

Bot request - Abolish 1st Person[edit]

Hey, I have a possible bot request. Basically, I want to remove all uses of the 1st person from articles, with the exception of talk pages of course. How hard would it be to have your bot go through and find all pages that contain the words "I", "I'm", "I'll", "I've", "me", "my", "mine", "myself", and just create a list of them? Obviously we shouldn't have the bot make any changes, since there are legit places where those words may be used. (Mostly in dialogue - you could optimize it to ignore anything in quotes maybe, or under "Dialogue" sections on NPC pages.) Also it should ignore all book/note/journal pages for obvious reasons. Possibly the entire Lore namespace can be ignored, since the most common offenses will be on gameplay articles. The only other places it might come up are if "I" is used as the roman numeral 1. But I think that's sufficiently rare that it's not going to be a problem. Hopefully this will get a list short enough that a human could go through and check them all. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 13:50, 24 April 2013 (GMT)

Check your e-mail. I gave you a straight data dump, which is a hell of a lot faster, but also less customizable, than doing it by bot. You're on your own from there. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:47, 24 April 2013 (GMT)

Leveled Displayed Merchandise[edit]

Yeah, more leveled (random?) displayed merchandise now. Many of them are not mentioned on the older lists. I've got three cases now:

  • Bows and Arrows at the Fletcher (you know them)
  • Two potions at Black-Briar Meadery
  • One potion and one leveled fear poison at Elgrim's Elixirs

Strange enough, these potions are all related to fortify some skills (Conjurer's Elixir, Skirmisher's Elixir, Philter of Pickpocketing, etc). May I have you take a look with the CK? Dreamshadow (talk) 08:37, 28 April 2013 (GMT)

I'll have a look at them tomorrow and let you know what I find. If I haven't posted in about 16 hours, bug me again to make sure I haven't forgotten! :) Robin Hood  (talk) 08:58, 28 April 2013 (GMT)
"Two potions at Black-Briar Meadery": These are wines (hence the previous confusion in the article) with the LItemPotionAllSkills leveled list set, therefore they will be turned into potions in the game. They can be found on the shelf next to the counter.
"One potion and one leveled fear poison at Elgrim's Elixirs": There are actually three leveled potions sold (2 non-poison: LItemPotionCureHMS and LItemPotionAllSkillsBest, 1 poison: LItemPoisonFear). They can be found on the shelves behind the counter.
"Bows and Arrows at the Fletcher": There is a variety of leveled displayed merchandise: 5 arrows (4 LItemArrowsAll, 1 LItemArrowsAllBest), 2 damage health poisons (both LItemPoisonDamageHealthAll) , 4 bows (2 LItemWeaponBow, 2 LItemWeaponBowTown), 1 dagger (LItemWeaponDagger) and 2 war axes (both LItemWeaponWarAxe).
--Roger (talk) 11:11, 28 April 2013 (GMT)
Well done. Welcome to my sandbox, feel free to edit them. Your help would be appreciated. Dreamshadow (talk) 11:49, 28 April 2013 (GMT)
It's so nice to log in and see that someone else did my homework for me! Where were you when I was in school? . Thanks, Roger! Robin Hood  (talk) 18:25, 28 April 2013 (GMT)

Happy birthday![edit]

You have been given a cupcake!

Happy birthday Rob! I saw the notification on my Facebook and immediately said I'd give you a cupcake, and here it is! Thank you so much for helping me out the past couple of weeks with getting my project up and running and such. And thanks for just being a generally awesome person in general :) Anyways, I'll stop blabbing on as I normally do whenever I find out it's someones birthday, and I hope you have an absolutely fabulous day ahead ;) haha -helenaanne  talk ♥ 00:18, 1 May 2013 (GMT)

Now you're mostly harmless. Happy B'day. --Xyzzy Talk 01:28, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Indeed! Thanks, guys. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:10, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Wow, happy birthday from China~ Dreamshadow (talk) 02:14, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Mostly harmless, yes! Happy birthday, RH! eshetalk 03:06, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Happy birthday! Vely►t►e 03:11, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Happy birthday! --Roger (talk) 12:24, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Happy birthday! --Holomay (talk) 16:44, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for making me a "younger" member on the wiki! HB! --Krusty (talk) 17:06, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Happy birthday! • JAT 17:19, 1 May 2013 (GMT)

() Thanks, everyone! Robin Hood  (talk) 21:49, 1 May 2013 (GMT)

Leveled enemies[edit]

Hi, how about some homework? May you check them for me with the CK? Are they leveled? I need some detailed info about them.

  • Cultists at Beast Stone and Water Stone
  • Lurkers at Beast, Earth, Sun and Water Stone after you cleanse them and their numbers appearing at each stone
  • A dragon near Solstheim's western coast (close to Water Stone)

They are needed to redesign the quest page Cleansing the Stones. Thanks a lot. Dreamshadow (talk) 11:51, 1 May 2013 (GMT)

All leveled. It looks like there are some Reavers near the Sun Stone, and various named sailors near the Water Stone that aren't leveled. Other than them, everything/everyone is leveled around all five stones. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:49, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
Well done. A class~ I'd like to know some other detailed info. It seems that the dragon is fixed at low level, just "Dragon" or "Blood Dragon" for me (Lv 65). It doesn't follow the normal leveled dragon list, am I right? And only in Earth Stone, you will be attacked by two Lurkers, only one for other stones. Can you confirm them for me? Dreamshadow (talk) 23:25, 1 May 2013 (GMT)
The dragon is leveled on the normal (for Solstheim) list, but it's marked as "Easy", which means that you'll be treated as being roughly 1/3 your current level for determining which dragon appears. You're right about the lurkers as well, at least as near as I can tell. I don't fully understand the mechanics of the lurkers appearing, but there are definitely two near the Earth Stone. There are, apparently, four others in various locations around Solstheim, but I'm not sure when (or even if) they're activated.
  1. Two near the waterline southwest of Tel Mithryn.
  2. One in the little pool/inlet on the mainland northwest of Haknir's Shoal.
  3. One east-southeast of Fort Frostmoth, near a little outcropping into the water.
Those may or may not be the best points of's a bit of a nuisance to figure out what's nearby when you're in the Creation Kit. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:59, 2 May 2013 (GMT)
A+, I've got everything I need now. I don't care about other Lurkers, they will appear and attack you as long as you get too close (my experience). Thanks for your great work. Dreamshadow (talk) 03:29, 2 May 2013 (GMT)

Louis Letrush[edit]

Hey Rob – and happy birthday once again! No birthday without annoying questions though, so here goes. Louis Letrush is next and I’m almost done with a draft in a sandbox. However, I have a few questions about his behavior at the end of the quest – and the consequences of your decisions with the horse.

  • When will he relocate from the Bee and Barb to the wilderness?
  • How much Speech do you need to win the Persuade option?
  • Is it true that he will NEVER attack, even if you fail the intimidate option? In my game he just ran away.
  • Where exactly will he go when running away - or if he gets the horse?
  • That cloning bug – was that fixed and when?
  • Can you find any dialogue related to the later encounters with him (if you double-crossed him)?

Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 00:06, 2 May 2013 (GMT)

  • He's teleported to where he needs to be at Stage 50 of Promises to Keep as well as for a wilderness event where Letrush gets into a fight with a thug, which can happen anywhere near a road after completing Promises. Oddly enough, for Promises, not only is he teleported there, he also has a package to get him to travel there. Maybe in case something draws him away, like getting into combat? <shrugs>
  • 25 or better, or you're wearing the Amulet of Articulation.
  • I don't see anything that would turn him hostile, even if you fail the intimidation check.
  • From what I can see, he should return to the Bee and Barb. That should probably be checked in game, though.
  • Damned if I know. I'm not sure what caused it. I researched it in the early days, but what I found didn't seem to cure the problem. I can't remember seeing it since maybe around Patch 1.5 or so, but it's not mentioned in any patch notes around then that I could see. The only patch that mentions anything about duplicate NPCs is 1.8, and I'm pretty sure we didn't still have multiple Louis' by that point.
  • The only follow-up I see is when Louis sends a thug against you. Nothing else seems to refer to that event at all. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:11, 2 May 2013 (GMT)
Thank you so much! I'll see if I can do the in-game tests later today. As always with SR NPCs in the wilderness, it seems like he's just traveling randomly around after the quest (I followed him a bit), but I'll try the fast-travel technique to see if I can get him back to Riften. --Krusty (talk) 05:11, 2 May 2013 (GMT)
One more thing - or two. After I've spoken to Sibbi Black-Briarm he's nowhere to be found in the Bee and Barb. Is he disabled or will he already be in the wilderness? Also, it appears he loses his essential status at some point. When exactly? Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 20:34, 2 May 2013 (GMT)
Okay, just tested Louis and his strange behavior. I don’t think there’s any chance he will ever return to Riften, not by foot or on horseback – instead, he will relocate to Whiterun Stables, where he will either be halfway buried in the ground(!) or just standing around saying nothing. Frost is nowhere to be found – but at least it seems like they fixed the duplicate issue. You have any idea why Whiterun Stables comes into play? And where is Frost the Horse? :D --Krusty (talk) 21:28, 2 May 2013 (GMT)
You're right, he gets disabled after you've talked to Sibbi, then re-enabled when he's teleported to the wilderness. The only place I see him becoming non-essential is if you fail the intimidate check (further supporting the idea that he was probably supposed to get into a fight with you, but the scripting was missed). Whiterun Stables has been scripted in to be where he relocates to after Promises, regardless of the outcome. Frost's location is rather amusing, actually. He's scripted to stay near himself after Promises is done, so wherever he was last left is where he should stay, unless he gets into a fight or something. I assume that would be at Whiterun Stables if Louis has him. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:04, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

Leveled Ingots[edit]

So sorry to bother you again. May you check the Reward of this quest for me. Maybe a detailed list for these leveled ingots (numbers and types) is needed. Thanks. Dreamshadow (talk) 02:51, 5 May 2013 (GMT)

It looks to me like the description on the quest is slightly wrong. From what I can see in the CK, you get four ingots, each of which has a 50/50 chance to be a silver ingot or a leveled ingot. The leveled ingot is chosen from this list (and therefore, may end up being a silver ingot anyway). So while it's highly likely you'll get at least one silver ingot, it looks like there's at least a slim chance of getting only non-silver ingots (at high levels, about 1 in 25 attempts, on average, you'd get no silver ingots at all...more rarely at lower levels). Robin Hood  (talk) 05:07, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
Excuse me, the page is ready now~ Creation Kit Information Requests Dreamshadow (talk) 13:42, 10 May 2013 (GMT)
Great! I've added it to my watchlist. Unfortunately, it's likely to be a couple of days before I can address anything, myself. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:12, 10 May 2013 (GMT)

Micro Mod desperately needed.[edit]

During the quest of Clavicus Vile, at the very end Bethseda dropped the ball. When Clavicus is trying to finagle you into killing Barbas the player's dialogue option should be, "Look. Take the darned mutt back or spend eternity as a statue with a dog sniffing around your legs." There has got to be some way to escape Ancestors Glade while wearing a cloud of moths. You have no idea how good my character looks wearing the Savior's Hide and moths! Sniffles (talk) 09:12, 5 May 2013 (GMT)

If these were bugs, I'd look into them, but to paraphrase an old adage slightly, "If I make a custom mod for you, soon everybody's gonna want one!" I have too many projects on my plate already. Try the forums, though, you'll probably find someone there who's willing. These don't sound too terribly hard to do. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:01, 5 May 2013 (GMT)

NPC Summary of Silver-Blood Guard[edit]

Yeah, I am going to start the NPC page for Silver-Blood Guard in my sandbox and related CSList info can be found here, I'm not quite sure how to translate these CSList info into the NPC Summary. Maybe you can give me a hand, thanks. Dreamshadow (talk) 03:34, 17 May 2013 (GMT)

By and large, the names in the NPC Summary are the same as, or similar enough to, the names from CS List. What I'd suggest is that you copy a template from another guard page, then leave blank anything you're not sure about. I can then look those up in the CK next time I'm at my "real" computer. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:45, 18 May 2013 (GMT)
Don't worry about them now. The page is ready, here. I've done it with the help of Dwarfmp. Thank you anyway. Dreamshadow (talk) 23:04, 18 May 2013 (GMT)

Land of Confusion[edit]

Hey RH! I can’t remember what the consensus was, but I was just going through this category and compared it to this category. An awful lot of farms are called settlements and that looks rather odd on the summary, like Skyrim:Fellstar_Farm. As I’m trying to sort out how to write farm pages for the SHRP, would it make any sense to change the summary – or would it break the consensus about using what they are called in the game files? Or should the farms categorized by the game files have the farm category added? Confusing, I know – so I just thought I’d ask what we actually decided. :D --Krusty (talk) 14:33, 17 May 2013 (GMT)

I don't remember the specifics of the decision we came to, but I think this is one of those things where we should identify it by what makes sense to us rather than anything that the CK says. Fellstar Farm, for instance, is identified in the game data as a house and a dwelling, but not a farm or a settlement, like Katla's Farm is. By and large, this sort of thing only makes a difference for radiant quests and such, which I don't think we'd usually be looking at the wiki data for anyway. Just for completeness, though, perhaps we should note that the categories aren't based on the CK data at the top of the category pages. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:52, 18 May 2013 (GMT)

Sergius and his missing lovers[edit]

Hey RH! Here’s one for you! I’m writing the NPC page for Sergius Turrianus and saw the he was supposed to be the cause of the rivalry between Nirya and Faralda, as they are both marked as his secret lovers. Unfortunately, it seems like Nirya’s WCollegeNiryaVisitSergius23x3 package doesn’t kick in and she simply stays in the courtyard, instead of seeking him out. Can you take a look at the package and the behavior, so I can write a more detailed bug description than this? Thanks in advance! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 06:13, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

I don't see anything wrong with the package itself, and waiting in-game, she went and found Sergius at 11pm like she was supposed to. Do you know where he was at that time in your game? For me, he was in the Hall of Elements, and she had no problems getting there at all. Robin Hood  (talk) 15:01, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Hmm, my save is from after completing the College quest line, and he was in the Hall of the Elements. At midnight he went back to Countenance, and passed her in the courtyard, without her ever reacting - I'll check some more saves to see if I can get her to find him. --Krusty (talk) 16:00, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Okay, I think I found out what is causing it. Something goes wrong during Containment. When I return from Mzulft (final stages of Revealing the Unseen), Nirye is trapped behind the magical barrier in the Hall of the Elements (not sure that has anything to do with it though). When Containments starts, she will be in the courtyard with the other members, looking at the deceased Arch-Mage. However, while everyone else returns to their routine when you have killed the anamolies, Nirya seems to be stuck in the courtyard, with her schedule locked in place. She stays there 24 hours a day in my game, even after the College quest line is completed. Can you crosscheck that (suggested) bug? ☺ --Krusty (talk) 18:47, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Hmmm, further tests reveals that her schedule breaks before Containment, specifically when you initiate the quest Hitting the Books. She will then be locked inside the Hall of the Elements (hence why she is still in there when Ancano seals the place off later, as mentioned above). She also acts a bit weird – when you get near her, she seeks you out, but just stands around doing nothing. I have no idea what would cause all this, but it’s worth investigating. --Krusty (talk) 21:34, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, she's supposed to stay in Hall of the Elements during Hitting the Books, but after that's done, she should go back to her normal schedule. When I tested, above, I'd completed Hitting the Books and Good Intentions, but not Revealing the Unseen yet. If I can, I'll play around some more tomorrow and see if I can spot anything. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:55, 4 June 2013 (GMT)
Sounds good! It COULD be my game that was screwed up somehow, but it seems like the locks her in place, first in the Hall of the Elements, then in the courtyard (after Containment). Looking forward to your results! --Krusty (talk) 19:44, 4 June 2013 (GMT)
Oh, forgot something. Can you check and see if this bug explanation is correct? --Krusty (talk) 21:41, 5 June 2013 (GMT)

() Okay, that one's tweaked. As for the original request, since my current game was at the start of Revealing the Unseen, I figured it was better to do the quest "for real" rather than trying to use the console to artificially advance to Containment. Unfortunately, that means doing Mzulft, which, as you know, is freakin' huge! Still, it shouldn't be too long, but I didn't have time to do it all last night. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:56, 6 June 2013 (GMT)

I've finished investigating what happens during each quest, and here's what I've got:
  • Revealing the Unseen: From stage 50 onwards, both are in the Arcanaeum from 11pm-2am. At 2am, Nirya leaves to go back to the Hall of Attainment. Sergius stays in the Aracanaeum 24/7.
  • Containment: At the start, both are locked in the courtyard looking at Savos Aren's body until you start combat in Winterhold, so none of their usual schedules apply. Once you've gotten the quest update to kill the ten anomalies, most of the people, including Nirya and Sergius, will have reverted to the same behaviour as at the end of Revealing the Unseen. If you abandon the anomalies temporarily, though, and return to the college, many of them are on alert and acting like they're in combat despite the fact that there's nothing nearby for them to kill.
  • The Staff of Magnus: No quest-related schedules for either of them that I saw, though part of Sergius' default schedule includes checks that the college is safe, which it's not, as I mentioned in the current bug report in your sandbox. That means that he stops going to the Great Hall, and Nirya will go see him in his quarters from 11pm-2am.
  • The Eye of Magnus: Once the barrier drops, Sergius stands guard at the entrance to the bridge to the college until you defeat Ancano, at which point he resumes his normal schedule. Nirya has no special schedule here, though that means that she'll go find Sergius at the entry to the bridge rather than trying to find him in the Great Hall or in his quarters. Once Ancano is defeated, they act like they do during the Staff of Magnus. And once Eye is over completely, they resume the schedules they had before this whole thing started. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:47, 6 June 2013 (GMT)

Bruma Investigator Guard[edit]

Hi Rob!

I'm working on the Oblivion:Bradon Lirrian's House page and I've run into an issue:

In the related quest, there is an NPC, the Bruma Investigator Guard, that we can't find out for sure what happens to him after the quest is completed so I can make a note of it for the residents table. I was told on the IRC to ask you since you would be able to figure it out quickly (if not, blame Vely hahaha).

Thanks!--WoahBro (talk) 23:10, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

You can see what I have so far in my sandbox, if that helps any.--WoahBro (talk) 14:51, 1 June 2013 (GMT)
When the quest reaches Stage 50 ("I've spoken to Olav at Olav's Tap and Tack. I was able to convince him to give me the key to Raynil's room. He told me that it was up the stairs and at the end of the hall. That should be my next destination."), the guard is disabled, so just goes poof. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 01:04, 4 June 2013 (GMT)
Thank you very much!--WoahBro (talk) 02:50, 4 June 2013 (GMT)

Image Crash[edit]

Sorry for this message. I'm not sure if you have noticed the problem here, about the map of Solitude. May I have you take a look? AN is really hot recently. Dreamshadow (talk) 00:14, 5 June 2013 (GMT)

Done. Only Daveh, Jak, and I can take care of it anyway, so you're probably better off posting on one of our pages directly. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:48, 5 June 2013 (GMT)

Convo System[edit]

I'm afraid there is something wrong with the conversations here. Related CSList page can be found here, Any ideas? Dreamshadow (talk) 05:07, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

What's wrong with the conversation, exactly? Robin Hood  (talk) 06:27, 7 June 2013 (GMT)
I didn't find some dialogue in the table, such as "Let those soldiers come here! You've never seen me throw incense. I could fell a giant." 0x00019f50 and 0x00019f51 both said by Ahlam? I'm afraid that the dialogue in the table didn't follow the data in CSList. Maybe you can take a look. Dreamshadow (talk) 06:59, 7 June 2013 (GMT)
It's there under 0x00019f53. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:35, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

Watchlist Issues[edit]

I'm sure you have the AN watched, but I figured I'd point you toward this post personally since you are one of the few people around who may actually be able to do something about it. — ABCface 16:32, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

Service Icon[edit]

I managed to mostly successfully transition the format for Oblivion trainer icons to allow for a better standardization of name. There was one which I couldn't get to work successfully, HandToHand. The icon is now named File:OB-icon-skill-HandToHand.png, with a capital 'T'. When done manually they link, so it's something in the template that I cannot see. I implemented a short-term solution of a redirect, but it could possibly be the longterm solution if needs be. Help requested. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 02:28, 9 June 2013 (GMT)

The second occurrence needed to be lower-case. Since you've standardized the name, though, that entire line can now go. I think the redirect is probably a good long-term solution. As long as it's in place for the image, it won't matter which capitalization they use in the template: Trainer (Basic)Hand To Hand (Basic)Trainer (Basic)Hand to Hand (Basic) Robin Hood  (talk) 04:44, 9 June 2013 (GMT)

Retaking Thirsk[edit]

Hey RH! I’m working on a walkthrough for the Dragonborn quest Retaking Thirsk in this sandbox and found a few oddities I hope you could explain.

  • When writing down the dialogue for Hrothmund, I noticed something missing from the game, specifically the line: "Go forth and seek your fortunes. Inhabit the hall as you may. In time, a true leader worthy of the Thirsk name may arise. But I see that new leader's coming is yet far off the distant horizon." While it looks like a bug, question is, was that line was supposed to be aimed at the player – or to Bujold?
There are three related dialogue lines:
  • "No. Nor is there any among you fit to serve. For a band in the wilderness, it is better to have no leader than a poor one."
  • "Go forth and seek your fortunes. Inhabit the hall as you may. In time, a true leader worthy of the Thirsk name may arise."
  • "But I see that new leader's coming is yet far off the distant horizon."
From my observations, action 11 within the related scene lists three topic infos, each having its own dialogue line separately. (And since the topic infos are not random and lack conditions, I think the game always picks the first one.) I believe Beth wanted a single topic info with these three lines included. --Roger (talk) 17:37, 11 June 2013 (GMT)
  • With the above question in mind, were there supposed to be some kind of reward?
  • Where will Bujold go after the argument with Kuvar? Disabled?
Yes, as soon as she goes outside (and that is part of the related scene), she will be disabled. --Roger (talk) 17:37, 11 June 2013 (GMT)

Hope you can find the time to help out! --Krusty (talk) 21:17, 10 June 2013 (GMT)

What he said! Robin Hood  (talk) 23:04, 12 June 2013 (GMT)

Ref IDs[edit]

As I see it, this discussion agreed to a change in the Ref ID box displayed on NPC pages where one is not available, can you make the changes please?. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 00:01, 17 June 2013 (GMT)

I'm not sure that's the best solution, now I see it. What will happen when a new game comes along and we don't have access to the ids before the box is added? Thanks for the prompt response though. It probably needs to go back to the CP and just get an acceptance to use N/A in those cases where there isn't one. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 01:03, 17 June 2013 (GMT)
I can have the bot manually put N/A (tomorrow, probably), but then, of course, we need to make sure that that's kept up consistently. Either way, there's still some irregularities that need to be fixed. I've just got the bot scanning for those right now, then I'll probably blank them by hand tonight from the laptop. At least that way, whatever our final solution is, they'll all be consistent so the bot only has to worry about looking for blank entries rather than blanks, all zeroes, manual N/As, {{huh}}, and whatever other irregularities there are. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:20, 17 June 2013 (GMT)

Angi target practice[edit]

If you ever get a spare moment, could you check the script(s) on this? Everything was fine when I had Patch 1.3. I'm now the latest official and unofficial patches. Trying the practices around 40+ times I keep finding iron arrows have been fired though I don't have any arrows except the practice ones. If a real arrow is fired that practice segment is automatically failed. Also, the patches completely changed the trajectory of arrows. If you find where they changed the calculations that would probably be a clue. Tanx! Sniffles (talk) 11:06, 19 June 2013 (GMT)

The iron arrows you're finding are probably just lying around from when Angi does her own target practice. I know I've seen all kinds of them there before. To be doubly sure, clear the field of arrows before starting, though you may have to contend with Angi firing more of them at the targets. As for the trajectory changes, those are probably in the game code itself, mostly, though I know they're affected by various game settings. It's not something that would be specific to Angi. Robin Hood  (talk) 14:18, 19 June 2013 (GMT)

Spam Templates.[edit]

Something odd has happened. I was handling some spam, business as usual, when I noticed this. A whole bunch of the templates spammers use. I'm not positive if we can do anything with this, but perhaps we could somehow integrate it into existing antispam measures to automatically search for things that match these templates? I'm just throwing out ideas here, but I can't shake the feeling that we could somehow use these to better protect the site from spam. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 20:10, 20 June 2013 (GMT)

It might be a bit tricky to handle so as not to conflict with genuine template calls, but I think it should be doable. You're better off asking Jak, though. He's the antispam expert. I don't even have permission to change the rules, technically. (I think that was just an oversight, but I find Regular Expressions a serious PITA, and Jak just made himself right at home with them, so I never bothered to follow up.) Robin Hood  (talk) 02:19, 21 June 2013 (GMT)

Red Links In My Sandbox[edit]

Can you please sort out the red links for the NPC's? Dragon Guard (talk) 17:55, 22 June 2013 (GMT)

All you need to do is put in the SR: after the opening [[. For example: instead of [[Avrusa Sarethi|Avrusa Sarethi]], it should be [[SR:Avrusa Sarethi|Avrusa Sarethi]], which gives Avrusa Sarethi. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:01, 23 June 2013 (GMT)

Servants with insomnia![edit]

Hey RH! Here’s a classic for you! I just spent way too much time looking at the two Dragonsreach servants, Gerda and Fianna, and it seems like none of them will ever go to sleep. I can see the sleep package runs from 8pm, but also allows several other activities. I also see two owned beds (just down the stairs from the kitchen area), but they just keep eating. Can you see if there’s something wrong? Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 19:23, 24 June 2013 (GMT)

Both of them are done the same way, but neither is the usual way that we've seen in previous investigations. Just randomly clicking around a couple of dozen sleep packages, none of them were done the way Gerda and Fianna are. The normal method is to direct the person to a specific location, then have them pick any bed within a certain radius. Even people who have specific beds that they always sleep in do it that way, it's just that there's only one bed for them to pick from, so that's where they always sleep. With Gerda and Fianna, however, they're both targetted to specific beds. Apart from the fact that it's never used anywhere else I could find, there's nothing that strikes me as obviously wrong with this method. I'm wondering if there was something buggy with it and they switched to the other one early on, but just missed fixing these two. That's about the best guess I can come up with. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:45, 25 June 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for checking! I don't know if you took a look in-game, but it seems like they will just change seats and eat all night long. Any ideas for a bug description? --Krusty (talk) 22:21, 25 June 2013 (GMT)
I'd leave it generic, since we can't be 100% sure what the problem is. Something like "Due to a bug, Gerda and Fianna don't sleep." If you want to be more specific than that, maybe try something like "Gerda and Fianna don't sleep, possibly due to having sleep packages that aren't the same style as most other NPCs." Robin Hood  (talk) 00:52, 26 June 2013 (GMT)
Okay, I added the schedules and an attempt at a decent bug description. Hopefully, due to the confirmed-tag, the USP-people will notice and provide a better explanation. --Krusty (talk) 23:26, 27 June 2013 (GMT)

Fake Malborn?[edit]

Hey RobinHood70! Here’s another one for you. I have written the article for Malborn here, and I think we need a note. The thing I’m worried about is this, a FakeMalborn. Now, I have an idea where he may be used, but I want to be sure. Can you look it up when you have a second? Thanks in advance! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 22:29, 30 June 2013 (GMT)

Looks like he's there to hold your stuff during Diplomatic Immunity. I think it's so that you can't steal your own stuff back from the real Malborn or anything else like that if you don't go straight to the embassy after giving it all to him. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:02, 1 July 2013 (GMT)
So basically, he is somewhere else than the Embassy during the quest? --Krusty (talk) 19:44, 1 July 2013 (GMT)
Looks like you got your answer from someone, cuz what you said on your sandbox page before you moved it is correct: the fake one is in a holding cell that can't be accessed by the player. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:45, 2 July 2013 (GMT)

Random conversations (Actor Dialogue Event)[edit]

Hello RH, I have had a hard time trying to trigger some random conversations lately, particularly the ones between the Nords inside the Thirsk Mead Hall, after Retaking Thirsk (the related scene quests should be under the quest node DLC2ThirskReclaimedScenes). I am completely puzzled right now, as everything in CK seems to be in order and setting fAISocialchanceForConversationInterior to 100 in-game makes no difference. Could you please take a look at them? Thanks in advance! --Roger (talk) 21:02, 1 July 2013 (GMT)

Sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with them in the CK, either. Unfortunately, I have no saves anywhere near that point (I didn't retake Thirsk in this game, in fact), so I can't readily check in-game. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:39, 2 July 2013 (GMT)

The Treasury House[edit]

Hey RH! Here’s a little something for you, just so you don’t forget about me, specifically some very odd stuff inside The Treasury House – they’re all described in the second bullet here. I’m not sure it’s a bug, but it’s pretty odd – maybe you can figure out why the schedules come and go like that? Best, --Krusty (talk) 11:53, 23 July 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, the schedule is poorly written, set to keep him seated until you question him (Stage 54). If you never do that, he'll sit there forever. Most other AI packages like that either automatically get removed when the quest stops, or they're scripted to stop under multiple conditions. This one's just a bit too specific. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:12, 24 July 2013 (GMT)
Okay, another one of those. Is it worthy of a bug note for the USP? --Krusty (talk) 13:35, 25 July 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, probably, though really, I think it's just a matter of moving the existing note into a Bug section...maybe a tiny bit of rewording. I'll go look at it now. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (GMT)

Error creating thumbnail in my sandbox[edit]

These city maps again. I'd like to make some use of them like Whiterun and Riften. Now, I'm trying to finish the work in my sandbox, then add the maps with marks into each page. However, I can't see these images, just "Error creating thumbnail". Could you fix it for me? BTW, Skyrim:Markarth, Skyrim:Solitude, and Skyrim:Windhelm will use these images too. I'm afraid the same problem will appear again. Thanks. Dreamshadow (talk) 23:09, 25 July 2013 (GMT)

Done. For the time being, I've left the larger memory settings in place on the Content3 server, so in future, you'll be able to force the thumbnail to refresh yourself. Just go to your sandbox, then in the address bar, change to Then do a purge, if you know how, or if not, a null-edit (edit the page, then save without changing anything), and either of those should refresh the images. Just remember when you're done to go back to www instead of content3, just to be on the safe side. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:29, 26 July 2013 (GMT)
I see. Thanks very much~ Dreamshadow (talk) 03:52, 26 July 2013 (GMT)

The Tel Mithryn Quests[edit]

Hey RH70! This could be a big one, but I think it is important. Is there ANY way to figure out the quest line for Tel Mithryn a bit better? You know, which prerequisite quests triggers the next set – stuff like that? There is a brief discussion on it here, but other than that, we’re pretty undetailed. I don’t even have a clue how to trigger the different quests – and I know Roger tested how to initiate Wind and Sand for the longest time, with no luck. However, I saw you added the prerequisite quest, so maybe you have looked into it? There’s bound to be some kind of system, as I can’t even trigger anything after completing Old Friends. Stuff like that. Let me know if you’re interested – and, of course, if you need something tested in-game. Best, --Krusty (talk) 11:28, 28 July 2013 (GMT)

Okay, I've done what I can from the CK, though I can obviously double-check if anything doesn't match in-game experience. Just to cover off some of Jimee's observations:
  • Agreed on Healing a House, no prerequisites that I can see. Same for From the Ashes and Reluctant Steward. I believe all three should be available at the same time.
  • For the ones that rely on the complex Reluctant Steward conditions, Heart Stones and Experimental Subject (the first) should be the easiest two to get, since there are no other prerequisites, but if you've got the Conjuration prereqs already, Telvanni Research and Azra's Staffs should be equally likely. The others in that same grouping include Wind and Sand and Experimental Subject (the second), which both require completion of other quests, so will naturally come later. In addition to all of the above restrictions, only one of these will run at a time, just like guild-based radiant quests and such do.
  • For Azra's Staffs, I don't see any dependence on Old Friends.
  • Heart Stones is, indeed, repeatable, and it looks like Azra's Staffs may be as well.
Robin Hood  (talk) 02:51, 31 July 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for looking into this. I was wondering, if the list here could somehow be tweaked to be in the "right order", instead of just alphabetically - a bit like what we're doing on the Jorrvaskr page. And if there is any percentages to the quests, perhaps add them below as a note? I have little knowledge about the quest line myself (still roaming around my first playthrough), but it would be somewhat helpful to tweak the list, especially if there are repeatable quests. --Krusty (talk) 14:50, 31 July 2013 (GMT)
I was thinking the same thing, myself, but I was too tired to work on it last night. I'll get on that later today. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:33, 31 July 2013 (GMT)

Critical Hit[edit]

Hey RH! I was wondering if you could figure out how to get rid of the red link here? Thanks in advance! :) --Krusty (talk) 22:21, 30 July 2013 (GMT)

How's that? Robin Hood  (talk) 00:40, 31 July 2013 (GMT)
That's perfect! Thanks! :) --Krusty (talk) 14:32, 31 July 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim DLC Scripts[edit]

Hi RobinHood! from some comments you made on the UESPWiki:Creation Kit Information Requests page, I assume you have access to the uncompiled scripts from Dawnguard and Dragonborn. Although I own both DLC's I don't have them available, and they're not contained within the .bsa-file. Could you please tell me where you got them from? -- SarthesArai Talk 10:35, 5 August 2013 (GMT)

They download automatically, I believe when you download the Creation Kit. You can find them in <Skyrim folder>\Data\Scripts\Source, then there are sub-folders under that for each add-on. Also have a look at Skyrim:Creation Kit#Notes for how to view them in the CK itself, cuz it's a serious pain in the...asinine posterior. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:24, 5 August 2013 (GMT)


Hey RH - here's some good ol' questions - concerning Sabjorn:

  • Will he be disabled when he leaves the Meadery with the guard captain? And when will he be enabled again?
  • He is not in a jail cell in my game – he spends his time in the entrance room of the dungeon (if you enter directly from Whiterun), along with the guard. He also just wanders around the dungeon, without ever setting foot in a cell. Bug?

Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 19:26, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

Answered them.
  • You can follow him out of the Meadery to find out. As what you said about entering with the guard – I don't think he is disabled then enabled. Anyway, it wouldn't be important to note that he is disabled and enabled.
  • Answer: Because might of entered with Sabjorn, that might be what caused the bug. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 20:23, 25 August 2013 (GMT)
Dragon Guard: Krusty's looking for confirmation in the Creation Kit so that we can be certain of the information we're posting. In-game observations aren't sufficient. (Also, I separated your answers from the question, as they're too difficult to read that way and unless you go looking through the history, it makes it look like Krusty said them instead of you.)
  • He's disabled as soon as the tasting scene is over. When you get the final update at the end of Dampened Spirits (stage 200), he's moved to the jail and then re-enabled.
  • Known bug, fixed by the USKP (search for Sabjorn, there's only one on the page). Robin Hood  (talk) 21:56, 25 August 2013 (GMT)
Brilliant! Thanks! :) --Krusty (talk) 21:59, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

Experimental Subject Split[edit]

Since you said you would start spliting the article, I thought I might make a statement: Instead of making a second page, on the article there should be two paragraphs on the walkthrough under detailed walkthrough with a horizontal line ---- That will seperate the walkthroughs for both parts of the quest. Thoughts? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 20:25, 31 August 2013 (GMT)

That's almost the same as what was already there. The purpose of splitting the pages is so that they can be completely separate from one another, each with their own links. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:27, 31 August 2013 (GMT)
But, the quest name doesn't change. If the four-hyphen template is used, and / or, give each part a header with ===Part <Number Goes Here>=== I am not suggesting almost the same as what was there, I am just explaining a potential alternate method to do this. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 20:33, 31 August 2013 (GMT)
Despite the name remaining the same, they are in fact two different quests. It's the same as Animal Extermination. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:35, 31 August 2013 (GMT)
I guess you're right. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 20:36, 31 August 2013 (GMT)

Dragonborn: Flying Wizard's Spell Name?[edit]

Can you check in the CK what spell the Wizard uses? Thanks in advance! Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 18:27, 1 September 2013 (GMT)

It's entirely scripted, there is no spell. The quest script simply translates him to the desired location. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:53, 1 September 2013 (GMT)
Well, he is obviously casting something. If so, then what is it? Surely the AI package for him has a spell he casts. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 18:56, 1 September 2013 (GMT)
There's a dummy spell, just for the effect, which is called "Locate" (or DLC2FakeDivination, internally). If I understand correctly, all that does is boosts his Confidence by 1 but it's not actually moving him—it's just something used so he has a spell-casting animation. The actual flying is done by scripting, and it just moves him up 7500 units from wherever he is. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:17, 1 September 2013 (GMT)
I understand it now. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 19:43, 1 September 2013 (GMT)
Just as a side note, Neloth uses this same animation for a completely different effect during Old Friends when he reveals Ildari Sarothril. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:45, 1 September 2013 (GMT)

Re: East Empire Dockmaster[edit]

In CSList, I am finding it confusing finding out his dialogue and schedule conditions. Could you dig into the CK and find put his dialogue and schedule? (His dialogue in CK listed something about Conversations which are most likely with other NPCs) Thanks in advance! Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 19:59, 2 September 2013 (GMT)

Besides, his page has practically lacked all of what I'm saying. For about 1 and a half years. (Dialogue and Schedule) Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 21:08, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
There's no dialogue I can see that's specific to him besides what's listed in the CSList. There are a couple of scenes that can involve him, but they could just as easily be between others instead, and as I recall, we're only supposed to list dialogue that's unique to the character. His schedule is dead simple: he stays in the general area he starts in and doesn't leave it...ever. At least that's what I can see in the CK. I don't remember the dockmaster specifically, so if you have something in-game that differs, let me know and I can do some more digging. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:21, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
You mean the conversations are generic? If they happen in the warehouse, be sure to note it on the building page. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 15:44, 3 September 2013 (GMT)
And by staying in the general area, does that mean he will loiter round the warehouse but sleeps? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 15:46, 3 September 2013 (GMT)
The conversations are semi-generic, being limited to a few people. As far as I can tell, the dockmaster doesn't sleep, he just loiters and does nothing else. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:21, 3 September 2013 (GMT)

() Sorry for the correction—it only occurred to me today that some packages allow for random eating and sleeping. I also double-checked where he can get to based on how far away he's allowed to wander from his initial position, and I don't think he could ever be involved in any of the random conversations I mentioned previously because he simply can't get close enough to anybody to converse with them; he can't get much further than the door. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:41, 3 September 2013 (GMT)

Does he eat/sleep at certain or just random times? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 06:31, 4 September 2013 (GMT)
e.g. One day he might eat 5 times then the next day he might eat 3 times? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 06:36, 4 September 2013 (GMT)
It's largely random, though the game does have certain rules to the behaviour. If you want a detailed explanation, see Sleeping and Eating Meals on the CK wiki. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:07, 4 September 2013 (GMT)

Miraak Dragon Kill Shout Script[edit]

I found the shout in the CK, it needs verification on the talk page though. Could you call up the script attached to the shout that me and Xyzzy mentioned? You'll find more details on Miraak's talk page. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 17:19, 5 September 2013 (GMT)

I didn't see you in the discussion that I found, but I did comment on Xyzzy's post. There's really nothing else of note to the script. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:32, 5 September 2013 (GMT)
I removed the vn tag. All 3 of us have basically found the same info. No further verification required. --Xyzzy Talk 22:04, 5 September 2013 (GMT)

Bruma Investigator Guard[edit]

I am working on it in a sandbox. May I ask two small requests of you.

1: I use an iPad, so I can't get a proper image. Could you get an image of him and put it in the sandbox?

2: In CSList, it says 0 on NoIdle. Does this mean he stays in one spot or walk around randomly in the house?

Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 15:03, 7 September 2013 (GMT)

  1. I'm not very good with images. Try posting a request on Image Requests.
  2. It means that he won't play any idle animations. As I understand it, that means if he stays in one place, he'll just stand/sit there like a bump on a log, rather than doing whatever idle animations guards normally do. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:50, 7 September 2013 (GMT)
Okay then. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 20:24, 7 September 2013 (GMT)
RobinHood, I am giving you permission to work on it in my sandbox. You can help me with the inventory and giving it some minor tweakings before it is finished. I am adding your name to "Users Allowed To Edit The Sandbox" now. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 17:40, 18 September 2013 (GMT)
DragonGuard, that's enough. You were the one who proposed this page to begin with, and it's been universally shot down so far. You insisted that you would prove us wrong, and yet you're now asking other users to do what you yourself are too lazy to do. Our editors have more important things to do than help you with a project which is unlikely to go anywhere, so either do it by yourself or drop the issue. Asking another editor to spend time working on this project is ENTIRELY inappropriate. ThuumofReason (talk) 17:47, 18 September 2013 (GMT)
Listen. RobinHood told me to finish off it in my sandbox so we would have a concrete one for what the article would look like if it was for real. He gave me advice on it after all. Check put the Community Portal discussion if you don't believe me. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 18:26, 18 September 2013 (GMT)

() This would actually be a good argument against a separate page for him. I didn't look through every last "Bruma Guard", and several of them that I did look at have minor variations in inventory, but at the very least, the inventory for the investigator is identical to BrumaGuardCastlePostNight01 and BrumaGuardCastlePostNight02, so there's nothing notable there. As others have said, this is your project, so it's for you to do the work on it and flesh out the page yourself. If you need it, you can find the full list of his inventory here. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:23, 18 September 2013 (GMT)

Sorry, I hadn't yet read the AN. I'll leave my reply here anyway, in case you decide to resume work on this, though it may well end up being archived by the time you get back. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:33, 18 September 2013 (GMT)
Hello there! Long time no talk. I've even replied on here before it was archived, always a plus in my book. So, are we going to sort the "inventory of Investigator Guard" out now, RobinHood? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 18:37, 20 October 2013 (GMT)
I don't see a need, personally. I was willing to see if what you came up with would fill a reasonable-sized page, but I don't think it will, and as I stated above, the investigator guard's inventory is indistinguishable from other guards' inventories in any event. I would suggest that you move on to a different project. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:22, 20 October 2013 (GMT)


Hey RH! Time for yet another bug-hunt! This time, it’s about Valdr. I noticed two things while writing his article:

(1) It seems like I can’t get the rumor "Folks have gone missing the past few weeks. Word now's that our hunters are gone, too. Say, if you're traveling, could you keep an eye out for them? Valdr and his men. I think they were after bear up north." from the innkeeper in Falkreath. Funny thing is, I heard the rumor once upon a time, so it’s in there. Can you check if any conditions must be met? Also, I suspect the addition of the Dawnguard DLC to cause the rumor to be bugged.
(2) Upon returning to Dead Man’s Drink after the quest, Valdr was supposed to sleep between 10pm and 8am – but he doesn’t. Can you figure out why?

That’s it – hope you can figure it out, and thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 20:35, 7 September 2013 (GMT)

  1. The conditions to get that line of dialog are: you must be level 16 or higher, the Moss Mother Cavern quest must not yet have started, and you must be speaking to Valga Vinicia or Narri, whichever one is currently the innkeeper. Off-hand, I don't see any changes coming from any of the DLCs.
  2. All the beds in Dead Man's Drink are owned by a faction and Valdr's not part of that faction. This is fixed in USKP 1.3.1. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:49, 9 September 2013 (GMT)


Hello again! Is there anything better than two annoying NPC questions in one day? I wrote a draft for an article on Irnskar Ironhand and ran into yet another bug. In short, this package doesn’t work, but I can’t figure out why. Can you shred some light on what causes Irnskar to stay inside the house instead of doing what he is supposed to do? Thanks in advance, for the second time! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 22:11, 8 September 2013 (GMT)

I don't think you can see this in CSList, but the condition on the package is incorrect. It's supposed to apply to the "Subject", but instead, it's applied to the "Linked Reference" (which I think would be nothing at all), so the package fails. Fixing that, he immediately went to the palace. Melaran also suffers from the same bug on the same package. This is not yet fixed by the USKP, but I just reported it. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:39, 9 September 2013 (GMT)
Excellent! Thanks (also from Valdr)! --Krusty (talk) 05:52, 10 September 2013 (GMT)

Falion's Secret[edit]

Hi, glad to be back and sorry for the trouble. I need some help with the quest Falion's Secret. I'd like to re-write the quest walkthrough for the project, however, I can't trigger the quest dialogue near the summoning circle. When I talk to him, he will only have some common topics with me. Can you find out the detailed requirements for the quest? Thanks~ Dreamshadow (talk) 23:34, 19 September 2013 (GMT)

It's a bit convoluted in that there are conditions in different places, but it looks like he has to be close to the summoning circle, it has to be between 1am and 5am (it actually checks for a specific package, so things like combat may cause the check to fail), and the line won't appear if you're at the part of Rising at Dawn where you're supposed to meet Falion (i.e., stages 150-185). If none of that seems to be working, the only thing I can suggest is to fast travel away and come back on another day in case he just wasn't getting close enough to the circle or something. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:48, 20 September 2013 (GMT)
Thanks very much. I'd like to have a try soon. Dreamshadow (talk) 04:25, 20 September 2013 (GMT)


Hiya! It's been way too long since I've bothered you. I have a couple questions for ya. ;) Feel free to send me a PM whenever you have time to get on IRC. My nick is generally "ABCface|away" if I'm not on as "ABCface," and if I'm not around when ya message me, let me know when the best time is to try and find ya on there. Thanks! :) — ABCface 19:23, 25 October 2013 (GMT)

Sorry, I made a typo when I was supposed to identify earlier and didn't notice, so I didn't get logged in properly. I'm on now, though, in case you see this before the PM. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:32, 25 October 2013 (GMT)

Jaree-Ra Mystery[edit]

Hey RH! It’s been a while, but I’m back with yet another bug investigation, this time concerning Jaree-Ra. Now, even if I can’t figure out what makes him stay in Solitude day and night until his quest is initiated (guess that’s a package within the quest), I have a question about his behavior AFTER the quest is started. When you have accepted Lights Out! he will start doing his regular routine, but it is incredibly odd: From 10am to 6pm he will wander around the dockside, as expected. From 6pm to 2am he will wander around inside Angeline's Aromatics. The weirdest thing occurs at 2am when he will take a spot behind the counter, as if he was a merchant. Now, I know that he has nothing to do inside a closed shop, and he is definitely not a merchant – but what is wrong with the packages? Where was he supposed to go? How to phrase the bug description? ☺ Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 19:38, 27 October 2013 (GMT)

Krusty, it could be his sleep package at hour 02.00 AM. More details below.
Sleep Location Radius: 2000 units.
Minimum Wander Distance: 300 units.
Allow Idle Markers and Special Furniture: 1 (1 means yes)
It could be that because there are no beds close enough, so when his previous package is finished, he will not be able to roam far enough for a bed. I seriously have no idea if there's a bed in Angeline's Aromatics.
Hope it helps! DGTC 19:49, 27 October 2013 (GMT)
DG had the right idea. He is indeed supposed to sleep in Angeline's Aromatics from 2am-10am, but one bed is owned by Angeline and the other by Vivienne, so he has nowhere to sleep and just stands there. Since Angeline's is a double bed, it's possible he was intended to sleep with her. The other possibility is that he was supposed to sleep somewhere else that does have a bed available, and someone just forgot to use a custom package for that, so he looks for a bed at his "home" location in Angeline's. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:15, 27 October 2013 (GMT)
I got very close as to why. I at least explained as to why he does this "merchant behind the counter animation" though.
I left a funny thing interpreting as to why he does it below :)
Jaree-Ra: "It's sleep time for me."
Jaree-Ra: "(realises the beds inside Angeline's Aromatics are owned so he can't sleep in them.) Argh no! I can't sleep because the beds aren't mine and they're being used!"'
Jaree-Ra: "I'm bored. I'll stand behind the counter, for now…" — Unsigned comment by Dragon Guard (talkcontribs) at 21:26 on 27 October 2013
I find it incredibly hard to believe that a ‘criminal’ like Jaree-Ra was supposed to sleep in Angeline’s (instead of the neighboring Winking Skeever). But, if you can’t find any evidence of a bug, I’ll try and write the weirdest schedule ever. Thanks for looking into it, both of you. ☺ --Krusty (talk) 21:29, 27 October 2013 (GMT)
Krusty, good luck for writing the wierdest schedule ever ;P — DGTC 21:38, 27 October 2013 (GMT)
Maybe she likes the bad boys...or bad reptiles, rather? Realistically, though, I agree. I think it was an oversight that his default location is in Angeline's and that that's therefore where he tries to sleep. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:40, 28 October 2013 (GMT)

Recommended mods post[edit]

Thanks for removing that for me, I kind of left that message without actually reading the page or paying attention to the edit, and after I realized my mistake, I wasn't sure whether it would be more appropriate to edit the message, remove it, or leave it be. So if I leave a message on another user's page that I find out isn't warranted, is it okay for me to remove it myself? ThuumofReason (talk) 22:38, 30 October 2013 (GMT)

Yes, removing it is considered acceptable in the same way as it would be to modify your own post, though editing it or replying to it yourself would have been fine as well. Me removing it is perhaps more questionable, but still done on occasion when there's a clear misunderstanding, to avoid "biting the newcomer". Robin Hood  (talk) 22:50, 30 October 2013 (GMT)
Thanks! I'll keep that in mind if I ever make that mistake again.
...Oh man, I really hope I never make that mistake again. I'm getting sloppy >_< ThuumofReason (talk) 22:55, 30 October 2013 (GMT)
LOL, no worries. Every long-time editor has made mistakes like this at some point. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:37, 30 October 2013 (GMT)

A False Front[edit]

Hey RH! Two quick questions, related to my work on Skyrim:A False Front (Imperial):

  • What is the schedule of the Stormcloak Courier? Are his decisions (like leaving an inn) totally random, or is there a system?
  • During your conversation with the innkeepers, how big a skill level is needed to persuade them?

Hope you have the time to look into it – thanks in advance! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 23:14, 2 November 2013 (GMT)

If I understand correctly, the courier just continuously runs back and forth between the two inns, though it looks like he's allowed to eat and sleep as needed. The persuasion check is 50 or, as usual, the Amulet of Articulation will do it too. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:15, 3 November 2013 (GMT)
Hello again! Thanks - I was trying to make sure he didn't have some kind of interval-based schedule (you know, always leave an inn on a full hour, stuff like that), but I have done a lot of testing and he seems to be completely random. And yes, he will sometimes sleep, eat, or relax while staying at an inn - so that's why I was hoping I could provide some kind of specific schedule. Oh, one more thing - what kind of leveled reward table should I use for the quest? ;) --Krusty (talk) 06:33, 3 November 2013 (GMT)
(Note to self: dealt with on IRC.) Robin Hood  (talk) 22:07, 3 November 2013 (GMT)

Baurus: Revamp in my sandbox[edit]

I have Oblivion for the Xbox, but I don't have its CS/CK on PC. In my sandbox, I am doing a work in progress on Baurus' page, and since you have the Oblivion CS/CK, could you help me get dialogue conditions and such.

I can do these things in-game, but can you check things in the CS/CK like dialogue conditions when attacking him in the Sewers.

He does have a lot of dialogue, and his big schedule when at Cloud Ruler Temple could be a big thing.

I do think that the article will be long when the WIP in the sandbox is finished. DGAny Questions? 16:54, 3 November 2013 (GMT)

You can see the dialogue conditions in CSList by using the IDs. For example, the first one occurs at Stage 30 of Defense of Bruma. (The second condition is just saying it has to be Baurus that's speaking.) Robin Hood  (talk) 19:27, 3 November 2013 (GMT)
If I do it myself, it will take three weeks. If another editor added to it as well, it will only take a week or so. This is a pretty big article, so it will come out well, and maybe and this is a maybe. Maybe, it could be - a featured article. But for it to be featured, it would have to be exceptional with lots of images and wikiformat e.g. wikitables. DGAny Questions? 20:38, 3 November 2013 (GMT)
It is a big page to do. I am spending time transferring it all from the CSList to my sandbox for sorting out. One or two of the lines have been removed, but that's because I crossed them off when I was doing the conversation in the sewers. DGAny Questions? 22:20, 3 November 2013 (GMT)
I imagine this will help. You'll have to sort it out from there. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:43, 3 November 2013 (GMT)
Once I have finished the sandbox version, it will get a big cleanup to make it looking the best it can. I've already got image requests for Baurus. Maybe the article will be exceptional when it is finished. DGAny Questions? 12:05, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

Aia Arria[edit]

Hi Robin, sorry to bother you, but I have a quick question. I'm trying to expand Skyrim:Aia Arria. According to the cslist, there are various dialogue bits recorded between the Bard's College students and their instructors during lessons, but it looks like some of them are assigned the wrong speakers. For example, this line is marked as being between Aia and Pantea, but it looks like it is meant to be in response to this line by Giraud. Does that mean that the dialogue will never play? --AN|L (talk) 17:25, 6 November 2013 (GMT)

From what I'm seeing in the CK, this looks to be radiant dialogue, where a teacher is picked at random and a student is picked at random. You're absolutely right, all three lines that were supposed to be spoken by Geraud Gemane are assigned to other speakers. I'm not entirely sure, but I suspect that means that Giraud would speak his line, then the student would simply fail to answer. When one of the other teachers initiates the dialogue, I suspect it would go fine and the extra lines would just be ignored, since they're all at the bottom of the list and it would have already found the correct line. It would take in-game testing to be sure, though. I'll try it later this afternoon and see what happens. The problem was fixed by USKP v 1.2.6. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:38, 6 November 2013 (GMT)
Well, that was easy. I showed up at the Bard's college and that scene ran repeatedly, once with each instructor, though I did "help" Giraud's a little bit by teleporting a student next to him in the lobby. :) Anyway, when Giraud's lines trigger, he talks to himself. The initial line triggers, the student's line is ignored, and then Giraud replies as if the student had spoken. (So, in Aia's case, he says "I'm sure it will be fine. Just don't be late.") As expected, the other instructors ignore the extra lines, so their dialogue works fine. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:54, 6 November 2013 (GMT)

Dawnguard NPCs[edit]

Hey RobinHood70! I just started writing my first NPC from the Dawnguard add-on – and went for a simple one, specifically Agmaer. Problem is, I can see in cslist that DG NPCs are nowhere near as simple as regular SR NPCs. In fact, my guess is that they are programmed differently than the rest. So, the cslist entry for Agmaer is here, and includes one package, one dialogue line and so on. Can you tell me how to decipher his schedule? Maybe even his dialogue? Any tricks? --Krusty (talk) 00:36, 17 November 2013 (GMT)

They added something called aliases to the CK for Skyrim, which Nephele wasn't really aware of when she designed CSList, and it looks like Agmaer, at least (or maybe all of Dawnguard and Dragonborn), makes heavy use of them. The first problem, his schedule being so minimal, is because his schedule is actually different for each quest, so it's created as part of the quest itself, added to him via the quest aliases, then removed when the quest is over. Similarly, his dialogue is also alias based. You can see here what a dialogue with an alias looks like. It checks that the actor with alias number four is the one speaking, which the CK translates to the alias's editor id, but in CSList, all you get is the number four. As far as I know, nobody's Skyrim readers are up to this yet. I can see the schedule attached to any given quest in the CK, but I can't export specifically for Agmaer, or anything close to it. I really have no idea what might help here. I'll see if I can get something done in my database, but I haven't even begun to process alias data for quests yet, nor have I tried to process dialogue, so it may be quite some time before I have anything that would be useful. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:19, 17 November 2013 (GMT)
Haha, sounds like we have a challenge ahead of us. I made a few in-game tests on Agmaer yesterday and he seems to keep a bedtime between 8pm and 4am, but I can tell from this default list from hell that something weird is going on, and that his packages are reevaluated at odd times. However, and luckily, Dawnguard is not the most complex DLC out there (and DG is different, as the NPCs seems to have more normal packages), so hopefully there is a way to write them without too many problems. Beware, however, of my stupid questions when you least expect them! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 07:41, 17 November 2013 (GMT)
I may not be able to get you a lot of alias data quickly, but it occurs to me that I can at least get you the custom schedules readily enough. Here are Agmaer's various schedules and the quests they're associated with:
Quest CSList Schedule
Kindred Judgment CSList
Dawnguard CSList
Dawnguard CSList
Dawnguard CSList
Dawnguard CSList
Dawnguard blocking lines
(Hidden quest only for dialogue, etc.)
As for your form list, you're on to something with that. When I didn't see any eating or sleeping schedules in what I just listed, I started to dig, and it seems that your form list starts to come into play there. It looks like maybe general eating and sleeping packages are assigned en masse through that list rather than in the more customary way we see in Skyrim. I've never seen anything else handle eating and sleeping quite this way. I've sort of got some idea what's going on now, but I'll have to take a look at it some more later; too tired right now to really grasp all the complexities of it. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:39, 20 November 2013 (GMT)
Oh, sorry – managed to overlook your response here. For now, I’m going to add the schedules I can observe in-game (mostly sleping packags), as most of it appears to be ordinary sandbox stuff. I know that a guy like Agmaer probably has some set lunch and dinner times, but until we can figure it out, I’ll just add some regular sandbox descriptions. Thanks for looking into it! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 06:34, 22 November 2013 (GMT)
Well, I can definitely say I've learned something from this experience, since I don't believe I've seen default package lists come into play before, or at least not on the scale Dawnguard uses them. Here's the schedule as I see it:
  • Breakfast from 9-10am in the main dining hall.
  • Lunch from 1-2pm in the main dining hall.
  • Sleep from 8pm-4am on the right half of the barracks (if you're facing the fireplace).
  • If nothing else applies, hang out in the vicinity of the dining hall. Notably, eating is allowed on this package, which means he may eat at other times of day besides his breakfast and lunch routines. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:48, 22 November 2013 (GMT)

() So, at long last, we're back to Agmaer. While my database can now extract all the text, that gets more than a little cumbersome to read through, with 16 columns of information just to show you what CSList can largely already show you anyway. Realizing that that was probably more confusing than useful (not to mention that you'd still probably have needed CSList for a few of them), I backtracked to something simpler.

So, here's a list of all the topics that Agmaer is involved in. The Scenes (the ones where SNAM = SCEN in the dialogue record) will still be something you'll have to get one of us CK types to check, cuz there are just so many complexities to those that extracting the data for them in any comprehensible format would pretty much mean duplicating the CK.

Quest CSList Link
Hunter Base Dialogue CSList
Hunter Base Dialogue CSList
Hunter Base Dialogue CSList
Hunter Base Dialogue CSList
Hunter Base Dialogue CSList
Hunter Base Dialogue CSList
Dawnguard blocking lines CSList
Dawnguard blocking lines CSList
Kindred Judgment CSList
Kindred Judgment CSList
Kindred Judgment CSList
Kindred Judgment (post-quest) CSList

Also, I've just realized that one of the unique dialogues is pretty much impossible to follow in CSList, so just to highlight it, the fourth one down should go as follows:

Player: Why did you join the Dawnguard?
Agmaer: I've heard the rumors around Skyrim. I know something's going on. And I've seen the vampires. I felt I had two choices. I could either live in fear of the night, or I could do something to help protect my people.

If you have any follow-up questions, feel free to ask. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:05, 29 November 2013 (GMT)

Dawnguard NPCs, pt 2[edit]

Hey RH! I’m working the Dawnguard articles and I have a question for the CK wizard. I could really use some elaborated info on this list and this list. Specifically, when will each of the NPCs spawn during the DG quest line? What are the conditions? Your findings will not only be useful on the articles for Dayspring Canyon and Fort Dawnguard, but will be added to all NPC articles as well. Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 06:27, 22 November 2013 (GMT)

Okay, here are the various people. Except as noted, they stay in Fort Dawnguard or Dayspring Canyon.
Fort Dawnguard
  • Agmaer: Always exists; the various packages noted in the section above control his location.
  • Beleval: Enabled at stage 60 of Prophet (DG side only); listens to Isran during Kindred Judgment, but does not go to castle.
  • Celann: Always exists; outside during Dawnguard quest; listens to Isran's speech and goes to Castle Volkihar during Kindred Judgment; outside for stages 20-45 of A New Order.
  • Durak: Always exists; additional packages include recruiting the player; shooting a crossbow or just patrolling outside during Dawnguard; and being outside for stages 20-45 of A New Order.
  • Florentius Baenius: Enabled at the start of Bolstering the Ranks after Isran sends you in search of him; once recruited, only leaves the fort for the Castle Volkihar attack during Kindred Judgment.
  • Gunmar: Enabled at stage 30 of A New Order; once recruited, only leaves the fort for the Castle Volkihar attack during Kindred Judgment.
  • Ingjard: Enabled at stage 60 of Prophet (DG side only); listens to Isran during Kindred Judgment, but does not go to castle.
  • Isran: Always exists; outside until stage 60 of A New Order if player is on DG side; goes to attack on Castle Volkihar; other packages move him around the fort as necessary for various quests, but nothing terribly notable.
  • Mogrul: Enabled at stage 52 of Prophet (DG side only).
  • Sorine Jurard: Enabled at stage 30 of A New Order; once recruited, only leaves the fort for the Castle Volkihar attack during Kindred Judgment.
  • Armored Trolls: Enabled at stage 200 of A New Order.
  • Bran: Always exists.
  • Sceolang: Always exists.
  • Dexion Evicus: Enabled at stage 60 of Prophet (either side).
  • Serana: Technically always exists, but obviously inaccessible until Awakening.
  • Vigilant Tolan: Starts enabled; disabled at stage 12 of Awakening. His corpse is a separate NPC and is enabled at stage 10, I believe. Due to a CK bug, I can't be 100% certain, but it seems pretty likely.
Dayspring Canyon
  • Ollrod: Enabled at stage 52 of Prophet (DG side only).
  • Tilde: Enabled at stage 70 of A New Order.
  • Vori: Enabled at stage 5 of Bloodline.
It looks like some of these people are enabled despite already starting out enabled, which could mean there are places where they're disabled, or it could just mean that things changed as the quest lines were developed, so let me know if you spot any in-game discrepancies from what I've stated above. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:53, 23 November 2013 (GMT)
Thank you so much for the lists – this is essential information on all the NPC articles, and in the notes section of the quest pages. Brilliant! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 12:06, 24 November 2013 (GMT)


Hey RH70! I’m doing a revamp of the Viarmo article (in this sandbox), and I have a few questions. The first question is actually for the quest page, and is essential information; what is the required Speech skill for passing the two tests during this stage? Next up are some conversations I found for Viarmo, Pantea and Aia. They are listed here. Will these conversations ever be heard? As far as I can tell, they can only be triggered inside the Winking Skeever, where Aia never sets foot. Instead, Viarmo and Pantea will bring Giraud to the Skeever, and there are no conversations programmed for him. Bug? Thanks in advance! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 14:29, 13 December 2013 (GMT)

Hope you don't mind me butting in but I had nothing better to do :P Anyway, regarding your first question it's 25 Speech for the first test and 50 Speech for the second one. As for your second question, if I understand the mechanics of the CK it seems that the conversation will never be heard, given that Pantea, Viarmo and Aia all need to be in the Winking Skeever AND at 500ft (I have no idea how distance is meassured in-game) or less from each other and, like you said, Aia never enters the Winking Skeever (she has no packages for it). --S'drassaYes? 16:32, 13 December 2013 (GMT)

() Thanks, S'drassa! Also, Krusty, in anticipation of your next question, here are the rewards. You've reformatted it significantly, so I'll let you figure out how you want to integrate this info. Note that the rewards are the same as the {{SRLeveledReward}} rewards, but we can't really put that into a larger table like this.

Choice #1

  1. Olaf found him asleep. (2 points)
  2. Olaf made a deal with Numinex. (1 point)
  3. Olaf was Numinex. A dragon in human form! (Persuade) (Speech 25, 3 points)

Choice #2 (Note: There are multiple bugs with this choice.)

  1. Olaf ordered disguised troops to attack Solitude? (3 points)
  2. He convinced Solitude to attack Winterhold. (1 point)
  3. He sacked it and used magic to blame Solitude. (2 points)
  4. Olaf sacked it in dragon form! (Persuade) (Speech 50, only available if Persuade was used in Choice #1; 4 points)


  • If you choose response 2 for Choice #2, the recitation and scoring will both act as if you had selected response 1 and as if you had selected response 2 for Choice #1. ?
  • If you choose response 4 for Choice #2, the recitation and scoring will both act as if you had selected response 1. This makes the highest reward unavailable, though your Speech skill will still be increased if you choose this option.


Each choice gives you the listed number of points. The total of the two choices determines your reward. Due to another bug, for Choice #2, the verse for response 1 will always be read ("Olaf gave orders, Winterhold disguises...") and you will always get its 3 points in addition to any points from other responses.

Levels Total Points
2 3-4 5-6 7+
1-9 250 400 500 750
10-19 400 600 750 1,000
20-29 500 800 1,000 1,250
30-39 600 1,000 1,250 1,500
40+ 750 1,200 1,500 1,800

Robin Hood  (talk) 18:34, 13 December 2013 (GMT)

Thanks, both of you! RH, that new table is excellent and is miles ahead of what we currently have. We talked a bit in the IRC about the potential bug, so if there is anything you need tested, just let me know. --Krusty (talk) 23:29, 13 December 2013 (GMT)
I've updated the info above and tested it to the best of my ability. I'll leave it here till some time tomorrow, then if nobody sees any discrepancies, I'll move it to the quest page. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:41, 14 December 2013 (GMT)
I think it looks good, although it’s a bit annoying that it turned out to be bugged to hell. However, I have read through it several times and the only thing I can think of is making a separate section on the (upcoming) Viarmo page, so people can keep track of the replies – and the recitation. Of course, Viarmo’s own page will affect the bugs as well, so at one point I’ll probably ask you to make the necessary tweaks there, just to get the two articles in sync. ☺ --Krusty (talk) 07:20, 14 December 2013 (GMT)
Hey RH! As a final plea, could you add the bug info to the newly launched Viarmo article - I still don't understand it 100%, so it would be much better if you did it. Thanks in advance, and another problematic NPC down! :) --Krusty (talk) 00:43, 20 December 2013 (GMT)


Any chance you could hop on IRC real quick, I have a couple of logistical things about templates that I want to run by you. Thanks! :) Jeancey (talk) 17:35, 13 December 2013 (GMT)


Hi Robin, Hope you're doing well. I thought galleries were supposed to be placed after bugs and notes not before, just want to ensure I'm putting them in the right place for future updates. Cheers Biffa (talk) 16:29, 17 December 2013 (GMT)

As far as I know, they come before, but looking around the wiki, I do see a little of both (e.g., Horses vs. Dark Brotherhood). I looked over our Style Guide and similar pages and don't see anything, so it may be something we discuss in CP. I'll ask some of the other long-time editors and see if there's anything I'm not thinking of. One way or another, I'll get back to you shortly. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:48, 17 December 2013 (GMT)
Okay, it's now a discussion. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:11, 17 December 2013 (GMT)

Archive tables and Scrollboxes[edit]

I recently (late last night) had the wonderful idea to insert a {{Scrollbox}} into a {{Archive Table}}, and that didn't work. I came up with this working version which is a combination of wiki and HTML tables, the idea was to stop the transclude sliding down the page, as you can see from the code I made rather a large mess which will make it hard to change and hard for a newer user to change (e.g. the person responsible for the interviews). Any ideas?

Unrelated tack-on: my time-stamp has two times and two dates D: "12:07, 22 January 2013 (GMT)"09:32, 24 December 2013 (GMT)" -- Kiz (email - talk) 24 December 2013 (GMT)

Okay, I made the one in your sandbox a bit shorter. That's a great addition. We should definitely work that into the Archive Table somehow. I'm too tired to do more than your sandbox right now,'s 5:30am! :) As for your timestamp, what on earth did you do to it? Maybe an extra tilde or something? Robin Hood  (talk) 10:26, 24 December 2013 (GMT)
I used the timestamp button so... I really don't know, i've fixed it that time but oh well, it would be good to work in, AN and CP spring to mind but it was a late night idea with late night planning :) I'll show the forum-ite that page then for review, cheers! -- Kiz (email - talk) 12:07, 22 January 2013 (GMT) 11:37, 24 December 2013 (GMT)
Given that it keeps putting the same date and time in, I would guess that you've copied that date and time into your custom signature box in preferences. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:25, 24 December 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim Classes[edit]

I was recently stat gathering for skyrim pages when I noticed that some class (on wiki) are down as one thing and in the cslist down as another. See Skyrim:Blackblood_Marauder and cslist_black_marauder for an example, is the wiki right or the cslist or is it how we're documenting it? -- Kiz (email - talk) 13:39, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

Welcome to templates. The wiki is right; if the game uses templates, several stats found in the game record are not used and replaced by the stats of the template. I tried to make that situation a bit more clear here by greying out all the values found in the game data but not actually used. Since templates are often leveled or random lists, it is not that easy to replace in CSList the values shown by those actually used. --Alfwyn (talk) 14:00, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

Thanks, are leveled lists like these worth documenting at all? -- Kiz (email - talk) 14:03, 27 December 2013 (GMT)