Skyrim talk:Easter Eggs
|Editors, you are welcome to propose anything as an Easter Egg or reference, or comment regarding the current page, but first consider that a reference cannot be generic (unspecific), such as giant animals. All references to the gameplay and world of past Elder Scrolls games belong on the Historical References page. Many specific topics have already been discussed, such as Harry Potter's giant snakes, the Deathly Hallows symbol, and sweetrolls, so please check the archives before posting for discussions which might address your proposal or concern.|
|Archive 1: Nov. 11, 2011 - Nov. 28, 2011|
|Archive 2: Nov. 28, 2011 - Dec. 8, 2011|
|Archive 3: Dec. 8, 2011 - Dec. 13, 2011|
|Archive 4: Dec. 13, 2011 - Jan. 1, 2012|
|Archive 5: Jan. 2, 2012 - Jan. 24, 2012|
|Archive 6: Jan. 24, 2012 - Feb. 21, 2012|
|Archive 7: Feb. 21, 2012 - Mar. 23, 2012|
|Archive 8: Mar. 30, 2012 - Jun. 1, 2012|
|Archive 9: Jun. 2012 - Aug. 2012|
|Archive 10: Aug. 2012 - Sep. 15, 2012|
|Archive 11: Sep. 2012 - Oct. 2012|
|Archive 12: Oct. 2012 - Nov. 2012|
|Archive 13: Dec. 2012 - Jan. 2013|
|Archive 14: Feb. 2013 - Mar. 2013|
|Archive 15: Mar. 2013 - Jul. 2013|
|Archive 16: Aug. 2013 - Feb. 2014|
|Archive 17: Mar. 2014 - Oct. 2014|
|Archive 18: Sep. 2014 - Jun. 2016|
- 1 Hunch back of notre dame reference
- 2 Broken link at Arthurian Lore
- 3 Star Wars imagery
- 4 Baba Yaga (a witch in Russian folklore) reference in "A Night to Remember"
- 5 Dawngaurd dwemer schematics
- 6 Princess Mononoke
- 7 Nightbreed reference
- 8 Half-Life reference
- 9 Loki, Thor, and Mjolnir Reference?
- 10 A Tale of Two Cities Reference
- 11 Fallout reference
- 12 Eorlund Grey-Mane and Wayland Smith
- 13 Cicero Joker reference
- 14 Frost
- 15 star wars easter egg update
- 16 Cicero - Joker Reference
Hunch back of notre dame reference
During the quest a night to remember you need to get your wedding back from Moira a hagraven who you supposedly married when you ask for it back she says that you want it for that hussy with the dark feathers Elsmerelda" then she attacks you. I think this is a reference to the disney movie hunchback of notre dame because in it is a dark haired character elsmerelda who is dark haired and very.... charming.188.8.131.52 22:25, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
- The actual line is You want it for that hussy Esmerelda, with the dark feathers – don't you? Hagraven feathers are black/grey, which is a dark color. I don't think this was intended to be a reference to anything. Zul do onikaanLaan tinvaak 23:16, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
- a quick google for the name Esmerelda makes it clear that google assumes you searched Hunchback of Notre Dame,
- in that search, wikipedia does mention a witch named Esmerelda on a television show
- that was apparently one of the best 50 shows of all time in 2002. ...Bewitched
- Hunchback is definitely old enough to have been an inspiration for naming the Bewitched character,(1831)
- and the original Esmeralda getting hung for being a witch seems a strong hagraven connection too.
- longpinkytoes 00:02, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
When you click "unmarked small pool" e links to http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Unmarked_Places#Smaller_Anomalies but the correct link is http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Unmarked_Places#Smaller_Places_of_Interest — Unsigned comment by 184.108.40.206 (talk) at 17:02 on 20 September 2016
- The page has been updated, thanks. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 16:43, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Star Wars imagery
During the Dawnguard quest Touching The Sky, you go to the Forgotten Vale, which is dotted with caves. One of these caves, Sharpslope Cavern, has an image of Boba Fett's helmet, right down to the antenna on the left side. Go in the cavern. Follow the slope down, take a left, down further, take a right. Right there in front of you is Boba Fett. — Unsigned comment by 220.127.116.11 (talk) at 02:24 on 28 September 2016 (UTC)
- I find it doubtful that such an obvious reference would be included in a cave, even such a minor cave. I have looked this up online and found nothing to suggest that this cave contains any reference to Boba Fett; but I will check it in-game later today and update this. AlphaAbsol (talk) 03:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Baba Yaga (a witch in Russian folklore) reference in "A Night to Remember"
Moira, the hagraven the Dragonborn marries while blacked out in the quest a "Night to Remember," is a possible reference to the character Baba Yaga, a witch often featured in Russian folk tales. In Russian folk tales, a hero on a quest seeks her out in her home in the woods, and though fearsome, she is not always hostile. Her house stands on chicken legs, while Moira's house stands on stilts, so its possible this reference is inadvertent. However most houses in Skyrim are not built on stilts, which makes the choice seem intentional. — Unsigned comment by SashaTheRussian (talk • contribs) at 04:24 on 11 November 2016 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say this is enough to be a reference. The only thing really linking it is the fact that it's a witch with a house on stilts. Witches are common in most fantasy, and the house being on stilts is probably just a coincidence, especially because the myth has the house on chicken legs, not on stilts. AlphaAbsol (talk) 05:13, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Dawngaurd dwemer schematics
For the quest Ancient Technology you have to retrieve some schematics for Sorine Jurard, but if you look at the bottom left of the schematic the electronic symbol for a directly heated triode valve(vacuum tube) is visible and to the right (partially obscured) is the electronic symbol for an electrostaticly deflected CRT. Now the more i look at this diagram the more electronic symbols i see. 18.104.22.168 14:30, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Are you talking about this? I can see the resemblance. —Legoless (talk) 23:46, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
- Beyond the walls of Halted Stream Camp there are a High Elf wearing a belted tunic, and deer at the bottom of a pit with sharpened wooden spikes.
This is likely to be a reference to Yakul and Prince Ashitaka and the sharpened palisades of Irontown.
- It would be nice to have some context to go on for those of us who do not know "Princess Mononoke". What exactly makes the dead elf and the dead deer a reference to the elk and the young noble? —MortenOSlash (talk) 08:07, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
- Nothing is the real answer. The only thing in common here are the horns on the deer. The High Elf would need to be human wearing a blue top and white/cream trousers, and the deer would need to be an elk. The spikes in the pit have no commonality with the spikes around Irontown other than being spikes in the ground. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 10:33, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
- some context for non-anime fans:
- Ashitaka is an Emishi prince from a literal royal family of Emishi Village
- descended from the Jomon from Lake Baikal, an elder race distinct from modern humans.
- the High Elf is from the race that deems itself the royal family of Tamriel,
- descended from Aldmer, from Sommerset Isles an elder race distinct from Imperials/Nords/etc.
- the argument that he should be human ignores that there is no way to tell a human is nobility
- where making him Altmer makes it visibly obvious that he at least thought of himself that way.
- the harder case to argue was that the elf and elk did not arrive together, given that they seem to be
- in identical states of decay, fell in the same hole, have yet to be looted by the bandits, etc.
- "the spikes in the ground have nothing in common with spikes in the ground, aside from being spikes in the ground."
- while the entire camp is surrounded by palisades, these are lined up like pencils in a box
- the randomness and isolated placement of the pit spikes just outside the walls of Halted Stream
- mimic the erratic placement of the defensive spikes just outside the walls of Iron Town.
- a blue shirt was not available until hearthfires, and only for children at that
- Yakul, who is a fantasy hybrid not an elk, looks like skyrim deer. skyrim elk look more like moose.
- longpinkytoes 02:22, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
In the Dark Brotherhood, there is a vampire named Babette.
This character could be a nod to the movie Nightbreed.
"A female Nightbreed named Rachel pleads for Lori to take it out of the sunlight. Once in the shadows, it transforms into a little girl who is Rachel's daughter Babette" — Unsigned comment by Bonechip (talk • contribs) at 20:00 on 22 June 2017
- Babette contains more relevance to Interview with a nightmare than Nightbreed or Cabal, the book the film is adapted/based on. And no offense, but the film certainly and the book do not appear to have been widespread enough to think that it would have reached the attention of anyone working on Skyrim. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 19:35, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
In the quest Discover the treasure of Angarvunde, when the player accepts the deal offered by Medresi Dran, she has this dialogue line: "Excellent. With my brains and your brawn, that treasure will soon be mine... uh, ours."
Bethesda's developers (among many others...) have several times suggested that Valve's game has been a huge inspiration to them in all their projects. I wonder if it can be a nod to the well known scientist line : "with my brains and your brawn we'll make an excellent team". Besides, scientists teaming with Gordon in HL1 were well known for quickly rushing into a trap or an alien, which is what Medresi Dran does at the end, rushing to the treasure...and dying in a trap. --Jprc (talk) 11:08, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
- I doubt this is a Half-Life reference. It's a common turn-of-phrase. --Rezalon (talk) 13:43, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
- a google search for "with my brains and your brawn" (using quotes) yields 481 results.
- the first four hits on page one are for Half-Life, and the fifth for an obscure political cartoon
- following them, all six suggested images are from Half-Life, with the images page being Half-Life 4:1
- it actually took much longer to write these 4 lines than to confirm the reference to Half-Life.
- longpinkytoes 23:26, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
- Half-life may be the top listings on google, but that doesn't make it a reference, not when the exact line can be sourced to something from over 50 years ago. A phrase in itself does not make a reference when it is such a base trope as this, as well as the trope of the person trying to screw you over getting their comeuppance just as they are about to succeed. On the second page of google there are 5 different books with this exact phrase, as well as the Brains and Brawn page on tvtropes. This is then followed up with multitudes of people quoting Half-Life on various forums, almost all of them using the full sentence and not just the first part. It is hard to see that this partial phrase in this setting is a reference, and not just someone using a very common phrase. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 00:05, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
- a team of 100 developers worked on Skyrim from 2006-2011, and Half-Life sold 9 millionth copy some time in 2008
- and the op has mentioned that many if not all of those 100 were avid players of Half-Life during the development cycle.
- while not all 100 developers were in charge of penning the in-game dialogues and likely not all played Half-Life,
- the line in question seems to be as common a line from an npc as 'arrow in the knee' so would be a common in-house meme.
- but if a bunch of 20 somethings referencing brains and brawn instances from before they were born seems more likely to you,
- maybe you're right and the line of dialogue was actually inspired by Westley, Inigo, and Fezzik the giant instead. ;)
- [My brains, his steel, and your strength against sixty men?]
- longpinkytoes 01:13, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
- Being a reference to Fezzik seems far more likely to me than a reference to Half-Life. And as noted, it's a very common saying. It seems highly unlikely to me that out of a team of 100 developers, no one would have ever heard a phrase that has been bandied about all over pop culture for the previous half-century.
- i was willing to believe it was a phrase bandied about all over pop culture for the previous half-century, but...
- Jan 1, 1900 – Jan 1, 1970 Your search - with my brains and your brawn - did not match any documents. Reset search tools
- Jan 1, 1900 – Jan 1, 2000
- 1. Dragonball Z (1996) Launch: With your brawn and my brains, we could pull off some major bank heists.
- 2. Aug 2, 1999 With my brawn and his brains, I lifted my 40-pound monitor and while he...
- Jan 1, 1900 – Jan 1, 2010
- 1. May 19, 2009 Sometimes, Brains and Brawn serve as heroes, but other times...
- 2. Feb 1, 2001 Inigo Montoya: Your brains, Fezzik's strength, my steel.
- 3. Feb 1, 2001 Luthor tells Nuclear Man, "With my brains and your brawn, I could be king." "What...
- 4. Feb 1, 2001 You've got the brawn. I've got the brains. Let's make lots of…
- 5. Nov 15, 2002 Bra grinned "Not with my brains and your brawn. I figure we can do it in a week.
- 6. Sep 3, 2004 ... open the wav file you will here a scientist saying "With your brains and my brawn,
- 7. May 25, 2007 Quotes. “With my brains and your brawn, we'll make an excellent team !”
- 8. May 30, 2007 Hmm...your power level is puny. Ha. ...... With your brawn and my brains, we could pull off...
- 9. Jul 23, 2008 ClaudeGTA3 9 years ago #3. With my brains and your brawn, we'll make an excellent team.
- 10. Apr 8, 2009 Uploaded by HalfLifeScientist With my brains and your brawn we'll make an excellent team
- 11. Nov 25, 2009 "With my brains and your brawn, we'll make an excellent team!
- In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 250 already displayed.
- the entries that keep repeating up to the 2010 cutoff are Dragonball Z and Pet Shop Boys. both are near misses.
- the phrase first appears as Skyrim goes into production, is unique in 2010, and Skyrim released the following year in 2011.
- longpinkytoes 16:15, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
(←) The phrase in question is not unique to Half-Life. The 50+ year old source is that obscure political cartoon by Bill Maudlin entitled "With my brains and your brawn" done in 1964. No-one said it was a pop culture phrase at all, it simply existed long before a very popular game used it in what became a very memorable situation. I saw an allusion that the line in Half-Life is in fact a reference to Crash Bandicoot and Dr Neo Cortex, but couldn't see any evidence. The quote from May 25 2007 you list is the exact phrase from HL but 2 years before Half-Life was released (the alluded Bandicoot game was 2004). All in all I am actually saying it is not a reference at all, just a sentence in a game where more than 98% of the dialogue is not a reference to something from another game. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 11:06, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
- the link from May 25, 2007 that seems to predate Half-Life is from this site: www.writeups.org/walter-bennett-half-life/
- the link above it from Sep 3, 2004 is from 'The Whole Half-Life' here: twhl.info/tutorial.php?id=85
- google may skim the posting date from the site metadata, calling into doubt dates not confirmed on the page itself.
- the basis of this easter egg is a follower inviting themselves along with the protagonist by arguing their merit as a follower.
- the basis of that cartoon is tricking an enemy using greed to act as an ally, which could be seen as an unflattering bible reference.
- the brains and brawn trope page does not have a single match to the exact phrase, the 5 books were written from 2011-2017 after Skyrim
- longpinkytoes 16:15, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
- I'm still unconvinced. If the rest of the phrase (the "make an excellent team" part) had been included this would be a slam dunk, but it's not there. And what is there has appeared many times before Half-Life. In fact, one of your examples includes the exact phrasing:
- 3. Feb 1, 2001 Luthor tells Nuclear Man, "With my brains and your brawn, I could be king."
- I agree with the opposition. This phrase is simply too old/common to say with certainty that it is actually a reference to something specific. Even if the exact wording was there, I really don't see this being an egg. It's just a common expression with countless variations that incidentally appears in both games. Forfeit (talk) 18:53, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
- good points all around, though seem to miss the main thrust of the OP, which sounds like it boiled down to:
- "With my brains and your brawn, we'll make an excellent team" was the "I'm sworn to carry your burdens" of Half-Life
- [ie. the line you heard enough of ( or had enough of lol ) to remember for life if you ever had a follower in-game]
- and according to many behind-the-scenes videos, Half-Life was the Skyrim at Bethesda studios, before there was Skyrim.
- [ie. the game that everyone played at some point, knew well, and used references from daily for in-house memes and jokes]
- if a game launches right now where npc's say "I'm sworn to carry your burdens, to the nearest pub lol "
- the fact that Skyrim ended the phrase before the punch line means there's no way one is an easter egg of the other, right? ;)
- longpinkytoes (talk) 22:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
Loki, Thor, and Mjolnir Reference?
Well I don't know why people missed this one, but in the quest of Dragon Rising, the grabbed guard named Hroki and Tor and the dragon named Mirmulnir, is it just me or is it a reference of Norse Mythology? and also the weapons from Voluunrud, Okin and Eduj can be read Niko and Jude backwards.Mudcrabrider (talk) 13:34, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
- i really wanna say that Thor, Tor, Loki, and Hroki are just common combinations of norse-esque phonemes
- similar to john, jane, jack, jill. where: John and Jane went up the hill" has no meaning at all... but:
- this scripted and recorded in-game dialogue seems to neatly tie all three together deliberately.
- longpinkytoes 16:27, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
A Tale of Two Cities Reference
Rorikstead's healer, Jouane Manette, is possibly a reference to the character Dr. Manette in A Tale of Two Cities. Both are "doctors," and share the same last name. It might also be worth mentioning that Sissel, Jouane's secret apprentice, is blonde, similar to Dr. Manette's daughter, Lucie Manette/Darnay/St. Evrémonde/D'Aulnais. The latter information doesn't really provide much though. — Unsigned comment by CarbonJM (talk • contribs) at 01:42 on 19 October 2017 (UTC)
- No, not even close. Same surnames and similar occupations is nowhere near enough of a similarity to even think it is a reference. Dr Manette's first name is Alexandre. Their back-stories aren't even close to being comparable (Alexandre a doctor imprisoned for years for being outspoken, Joune a healer who fought in a war, suffered no capture or ill-treatment, and has no apparent debilitation). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 09:02, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
There's a reference to the Fallout series of games in Whiterun. When you ask Lars about what there is for a kid to do in town, the first thing he says is that he used to sneak into the Grey-Mane's yard and tip over their cow, which is a reference to "Brahmin Tipping" from the Fallout series. I think this should be added, as it seems highly unlikely to be just a random sentence.22.214.171.124 13:36, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
- Cow tipping is a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_tipping --Jimeee (talk) 13:41, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Eorlund Grey-Mane and Wayland Smith
Eorlund is a clear reference to Wayland (or Wiolant) the Smith, who forged Beowulf's armour (Wolf armour) and the sword Gram, that Sigurd used to kill the dragon Fafnir. He was considered the greatest blacksmith in the world. — Unsigned comment by 126.96.36.199 (talk) at 11:00 on 30 April 2018 (UTC)
- He is not "clearly" a reference. Being regarded as the best smith in the world is not unique to Wayland, and it is only mentioned off-hand once, by himself. Everyone else limits him to the best in Skyrim. The wolf armor is coincidental, it is named that way as a subtle nod towards the werewolf nature of the inner circle. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:46, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Cicero Joker reference
I propose we add that Cicero is a reference to the Joker, or at least that his character is inspired by or based off him. There are only so many mass murdering, joke making psychopathic funnymen out there, it's difficult to call their similarities a coincidence.ChrisOfChaos (talk) 02:28, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- While there are a limited number of murderous clowns, it is also the case that just because they are a murderous clown that they must be a reference to the most famous of them. Cicero and the Joker don't share a lot of similarities other than that. Cicero doesn't murder for the fun of it, he isn't "mad/deranged" in the same way the Joker is. Cicero cares if he is caught. There are a few points that seem similar, such as his "surrender" but this is immediately followed by something the Joker would never do. It's hard not to imagine that some small part of Cicero being a clown didn't come from the Joker, but I don't think Cicero himself resembles in any way the Joker, certainly not enough to believe it was an intentional design. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:53, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Just in case someone objects to the expansion of the Frost section. Grani (spelt Grane in the game) is Sleipnir's descendant. Sigurd named it such after an "old man" (Odin in disguise) told him of its ancestry. That seems pretty nailed on as another reference after Sleipnir. Loka would then appear to be referencing Loki, with a small change of spelling as it would probably be too too obvious, and might confuse some people because Loki is a dude, albeit a god-dude, who gave birth to Sleipnir after taking on the shape of a mare. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 00:59, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
star wars easter egg update
i found a proper source for this easter egg
- If you venture into Bleakcoast Cave, you will find inside some interesting things. The first is a frost troll; once you have found and killed the frost troll, nearby will be a skeleton hanging upside down from the ceiling with a sword on the ground. This is a reference to Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, in which Luke Skywalker finds himself trapped by a Wampa in a cave and uses the Force to reach for his lightsaber. A similar reference appeared in the Morrowind expansion Bloodmoon.
- Actually saying what you are wanting to change is much more helpful than copying the entire paragraph and plonking it here. The only visible difference is a padlock at the end of the hyperlink rather than an arrow. For others straining to see what on earth the difference is, it is the hyperlink being changed from the Star Wars wikia to the wikipedia page. This isn't a source, its a link. The source of the egg is the game, the source of the referenced media is the media. The link does not have to be to wikipedia, there are other wiki's out there, and wikis focused on the source material rather than a general thing are usually more useful. This isn't an exception either, there are links to other wikis on the page, and there is absolutely no need to change it to wikipedia. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:17, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
Cicero - Joker Reference
Cicero is a reference to the Joker from Batman.
He is a jester, which was a joker or comedian in the Middle Ages. Not only that but he dresses bizarrely, in costume, like the Batman villain. Not only are both Cicero and the Joker insane, but they have the same kind of insanity as chronically laughing serial killers. When you read his journal you will find that he goes insane midway through his criminal career after a near death experience, same as the joker, and has the characteristic maniacal laughing that makes the Joker so famous.
Most telling of all is the quote from Cicero's journal number 4. ". Cicero is dead! Cicero is born! The laughter has filled me, filled me so very completely. I am the laughter. I am the jester. The soul that has served as my constant companion for so long has breached the veil of the Void finally and forever. It is now in me. It is me. The world has seen the last of Cicero the man. Behold Cicero, Fool of hearts - laughter incarnate!"
The Joker went by many nicknames including the Jester of Genocide, the Ace of Knaves, the Crown Prince of Crime and the Harlequin of Hate. "I am the Comeback King! The Clown Prince of Chaos! The Jester of Genocide!" reads similarly to "I am the laughter, I am the jester... Behold Cicero, Fool of hearts - laughter incarnate!".
Finally, at the end of the quest "The Cure for Madness", Cicero and the Dragonborn Listener have a showdown in the Dawnstar Sanctuary where the Dragonborn must navigate a building full of traps to reach Cicero, who is feigning injury. This is similar to the Joker, who Batman has to track down after navigating traps, lies, deception and feigns.
This continues Bethesda's tradition of basing Dark Brotherhood Characters after Movie Serial Killers, like Mathieu Bellamont's journal from Elder Scrolls Oblivion showing similarities to Jason. — Unsigned comment by 188.8.131.52 (talk) at 07:08 on 10 October 2018
- None of these similarities are close or are anything more than surface level. I do not see this as a reference at all without clear confirmation from Bethesda. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 16:10, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Alpha Kenny Buddy (AKB). Many people have stated that Cicero reminds them of the Joker, there was even a post a few above mine, so the similarities are close enough to draw comparisons. Cicero is a unique character, definitely, but he is inspired by the Joker from Batman. Maybe if he was just a Jester you could say it was coincidental, but a maniacally laughing insane serial killer who goes crazy after a near death experience and becomes a jester (joker), starts dressing in costume, and builds a labyrinth of traps, tricks, and feigns in Dawnstar? That is quite a number of "coincidences". As far as waiting for clear confirmation from Bethesda, does Bethesda confirm the Easter Eggs? If so, what is the purpose of this discussion box. Aren't all references deniable until officially confirmed? Isn't that what makes them references, as opposed to a knockoff or copy? — Unsigned comment by 184.108.40.206 (talk) at 07:08 on 10 October 2018
- All of those things are superficial. They don't have similar lines (the examples provided don't match in anything but minor ways). The Joker and Cicero are not the first evil clowns in media history, it's an extremely common trope. A labyrinth of traps or feigning dead are not things that make the Joker character famous, either. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 01:42, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- I agree with AKB here. While the maniacal jokester trope, of which the Joker is undoubtedly the most well known, may have been the inspiration for Cicero, we typically require some more direct connection to consider it a reference, such as dialogue or appearance that is identical. --Xyzzy Talk 05:36, 11 October 2018 (UTC)