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Skyrim talk:Easter Eggs/Archive 13

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This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Easter Eggs discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Making Friends and Influence People

There is a radiant quest to become a thane called Making Friends and Influencing People. Might this be a reference to the Dale Carnegie self-help book How To Win Friends and Influence People?--][Respect the wind][ (talk) 16:43, 30 November 2012 (GMT)

That's not the actual quest title. Miscellaneous objectives don't have titles, not being full-fledged quests, so the users of this site make up names for the articles. This is an example of that. ThuumofReason (talk) 19:36, 30 November 2012 (GMT)
Actually, it is the real quest title. You can find it in the game data. As far as I know, we don't invent quest titles at all. eshetalk 19:38, 30 November 2012 (GMT)
Even if you can find it somewhere in the game's files, it doesn't actually appear in the game, so I don't think it belongs here. ThuumofReason (talk) 19:41, 30 November 2012 (GMT)
Well, it's the name of the quest, so it didn't take a lot of digging :). And actually, I think it's pretty likely that the book was the inspiration for the quest title in this case. People love trivia, so I don't think the fact that the title never appears in the journal should deter us from adding it to the page, if others agree it is an egg. eshetalk 19:49, 30 November 2012 (GMT)
The point isn't that it never appears in the journal; the point is that it never appears in-game PERIOD. If it's true that the game designers really included that information in the files, then I have no doubt that that's what they were referring to. But regardless, the purpose of this page is to describe things that appear in the game, not random bits of information that can only be found by digging around in PC files. PS3 and 360 players can't access that kind of information at all, so I really don't think it makes sense to list something on this page that nobody is ever going to see playing the game. ThuumofReason (talk) 19:59, 30 November 2012 (GMT)

() I've given it some looking around, and I'll side with Eshe that it may in fact reference it. Just because it's only viewable on PC doesn't mean it's not there, and for the record, there is precedent to hidden data being shown (Skyrim:Easter_Eggs#Number_of_the_Beast) ES(talkemail) 20:11, 30 November 2012 (GMT)

Just means it's more obscured. Seems like a reference that can only be found by poking through the game files is more likely to be an egg, not less. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 20:38, 30 November 2012 (GMT)
It appears that consensus is that this is an egg. If there are no more objections over the next day or so, I'll add it--][Respect the wind][ (talk) 15:47, 1 December 2012 (GMT)
Added--][Respect the wind][ (talk) 19:08, 3 December 2012 (GMT)

Army of Darkness

During the opening sequence of the game and you are line up with the rest of the prisoners.

The nervous guy pleads with Ulfric and the other Nords "Tell them I'm not with you!", then he promptly runs off and consequently gets shot with an arrow. Its seems like a direct reference to the"Henry's Men" sequence in the opening of Evil Dead's Army of Darkness. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 15:01 on 11 December 2012

I highly doubt it. Similar dialogue isn't enough to suggest an intentional reference. ThuumofReason (talk) 02:01, 12 December 2012 (GMT)
The dialogue isn't even similar. Lokir says "No! I'm not a rebel. You can't do this. Your not gonna kill me"--~The wind, forsaken~ (talk) 16:24, 12 December 2012 (GMT)


In the quest Silenced Tongues, which takes place in Volunruud, there is a burned corpse near a fireplace clutching a scroll of Ice Storm. Ironic, but don't know what it might be referencing. 10:25, 15 December 2012 (GMT)

There are a number of minor in-jokes like this one in Skyrim; one that springs to mind (pretty similar) is the burned body of one of the missing Winterhold students along the northern coast with a spell tome of Flame Cloak in front of them. Personally I don't think it's referencing anything. 11:58, 3 January 2013 (GMT)
The one who is clutching a scroll of ice storm thought it would shield him from fire so he tried it and somehow managed to die. (Flammable dye in robes? Bathed in vodka?)
The latter depicts the power of magic. The student opened the book and upon reading it's arcane contents, he spontaneously combusted. He was a Novice, attempting to learn an Adept spell. A grave mistake to open in such circumstances.
Well, that's what my imagination tells me :)'' — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 00:38 on 5 January 2013

Classic Literature in Skyrim (T.S. Eliot and Phantom of the Opera)

Septimus Signus, in his random rantings, will occasionally say "it licked the panes and smoked the glass." This is pretty similar to this stanza in the Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock by T.S. Eliot: "The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes, / The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes / Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening."

Carlotta Valentia is an Imperial with an Italian name, in fact, the only Imperial with an Italian name. Almost every other Imperial in Skyrim has a Roman (Latin) name. Due to the fact that every man in Whiterun who is single seeks to wed her and she has turned them down to "concentrate on her daughter" (who, interestingly enough, is a cruel bully to one of the boys in the town, negating her suggestion that she's a good parent). She states that half of the men in Whiterun has proposed to her and has you turn down another suitor. These fact leads me to believe she was named after "Carlotta" from Phantom of the Opera, who, in Andrew Lloyd Webber's production is a stuck-up, self-obsessed woman who is their leading lady. Here is a song sung to Carlotta by the theater's producers in Phantom of the Opera: It features men fawning over the self-absorbed prima donna of the theater.

Carlotta's daughter is Mila Valentia. However, it is actually Braith who is the bully. Carlotta seems to be devoted to her daughter, indicated by some of her caring and loving dialogue toward Mila (she calls her "little fairy"). Also, she doesn't sing and seldom appears self absorbed. The only similarity here appears to be a name. Just a comment. Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 22:40, 15 December 2012 (GMT)
Carlotta doesn't seem stuck up at all, just tired of being proposed to. As for the TS Eliot reference, it doesn't seem very strong, though it looks possible. Vely►t►e 22:47, 15 December 2012 (GMT)
(edit conflict) I'll buy the first one about that crazy old man Septimus if you can put just a little bit more to it than just the words, but Kitkat's sold me on not supporting the second claim. Snowmane(talkemail) 22:48, 15 December 2012 (GMT)
Yes, well, regarding Carlotta, it's only a contemporary phenomenon that women would not be regarded as bad individuals for refusing every single proposal which came their way, which is why I figured the Carlotta name wasn't a mistake. You're right about the bully though, I should have verified that one first. I do find it interesting that she's one of the only imperials with a non-Roman name. When you're at the point where you've turned down half of your community, yes, you are stuck up - it is anti-social behavior deviating from the expectations of the culture of which she is a part - so much so she has to ask people to rough up people who talk about her in the Tavern. I'm not saying for certain she is named after Phantom, though it is interesting she asks you to get the bard to stop talking about her, but there is a reason that she's Italian while the rest of the Imperials are Romans.
The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock is about an old man who has outlived his usefulness or desirability to the world, like Septimus has to Hermaeus Mora: "I grow old, I grow old, I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled" - T.S. Eliot. Bloomingdedalus (talk) 02:31, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
This thing about Carlotta is rubbish, she has been asked to marry half of the men in Whiterun, including married men, and four Stormcloak soldiers declare their love for her if they take the city. Beating Mikael up is your choice. It is the last resort for failed persuasion, intimidate, or bribing attempts, but that is the same for all the similar quests. And finally it is you who asks if you can help by talking to Mikael, to which she responds that you can try but it is probably futile. She is accepting your offer to talk to him, not endorsing a beating. It is not unreasonable for a woman to refuse to get married in a free society, which Skyrim is, there is nothing to suggest that Skyrim society is comparable to Roman times, considering gay marriage is an option, including lesbian relationships which were considered "freakish" by the Romans, while homosexual relationships were seen as "training" by some, i.e. acceptable until the owner became married (most relationships were between a man and his slave).
The Love Songs wikipedia entry has this sourced interpretation of the poem, "the thoughts of a sexually frustrated middle-aged man". The line is actually "It lick the panes and smokes the glass... ", and it's present tense is out of sync with the poem. While it is similar, there is not enough evidence here to suggest that it is a reference. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 03:36, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
I agree with the other editors, and I also would like to point out that Rome actually lies in present day Italy, so any difference between "Roman" and "Italian" names is irrelevant. And there are other Imperials with non-Roman names, such as Samuel and Edda--~The wind, forsaken~ (talk) 16:04, 17 December 2012 (GMT)

Easter Eggs vs. References

The beginning of this page distinguishes Easter eggs from "references," naming as a key differentiating factor that Easter eggs are normally "intentionally hidden" from the player. Yet, most of what I notice on the page seem to fall into the reference category. Starting with the first one (at present): The "tea party" is not hidden, and in fact can't be missed while playing the quest. For the second, few would miss hearing Grelod say that line.

Wikipedia: "A virtual Easter egg is an intentional hidden message, inside joke, or feature in a work." I don't think I care about this much, but "Easter egg" seems like a near-complete mischaracterization of most, if not all, of the content on this page. Most of the entries seem to say "this (quite ordinarily observable thing or event) is a reference to that (something that represents no kind of "inside joke" or deliberately hidden reward or bit of fun)". Maiq the Liar comes much closer to being an Easter egg, because his lines are "inside jokes" pertaining to real-life phenomena about the game, TES series, the developers, etc. I just found what seems to me a "real" Easter egg, but it seems out of place on this page. When you first gain the ability to move on your own in Unbound, Ralof will be urging you to hurry to his location. The scren will have just informed you how to "move" (walk/run). But if you sprint to Ralof, he'll ask "What's your hurry?" I can't imagine any explanation for this except the developers poking fun at a player who "runs before learning to walk". What seems to make it an Easter egg is that the line would not normally be encountered, and can't be explained in any other way: (Ralof is yelling "Come on! Hurry!" etc., then suddenly asks "what's your hurry?" only if you use a control that you wouldn't be expected to use at this point.) It struck me as very funny, but doesn't seem to fit on this page. --JR (talk) 04:40, 16 December 2012 (GMT)

First, "hidden" and "intentionally hidden" are two different standards, but both of them are subjective and very hard to apply, and there's effectively little if any difference in this context imo. In regards to the Annie egg, assuming for the moment that "few would miss hearing Grelod say that line", they may not pay attention to it. Assuming they did, they may not have seen Annie. And even if they had, they may not make the connection. Thus, it becomes a "hidden" message that only a person who has the requisite familiarity with both works would understand. The point being, we've admittedly kept the "hidden" bar pretty low, but that's pretty much where it has to be. It's probably the most vexing issue about this whole thing. If you had some thoughts about how to appropriately raise that bar in some readily assessable way, I'd love to hear it. But frankly, it's a tall order. I think, just as you alluded to, that an egg can be in the main quest. It can be something everyone who plays the game will invariably experience. The only caveat I really hang on the requirement of "hidden" in the context of TES games is that the game shouldn't actively be calling your attention to it. So, loading screens are off-limits for me, and I don't think much of quest names (viewable in-game, at least) or other things of that nature. Outside of that, pretty much anything's possibly "hidden", because no other standard seems tenable in the context of a TES game.
But what is the context of a TES game? It's a huge virtual game world with limited direction and constraints. It's easy to forget, as I alluded to above, that basically everything must be done with some minimal amount of intent. Someone meant to put the apple on that small training dummy, as seen in the William Tell egg. Someone meant to have a skeleton hanging upside down reaching for a sword in Bleakcoast Cave. Someone meant for Sheogorath to be holding a tea party within a forest within a dreamscape. There's an intent behind it all. It's also easy to forget, especially for people like us, that not all players use online wikis or message boards to track down all the secrets of the game. They don't necessarily play every quest, or explore alternative paths with different characters and save games. They often ignore caves they have no business with. Assuming they access all available dialogue options with any given person, they may simply rush through them. They may be ten-year-olds who won't understand a reference to anything outside the Disney Channel anyways. And since it's a huge virtual environment, all Bethesda has to do, arguably, is plop something into the game world, and it's akin to dropping a needle in a haystack. We lose sight of that fact when we come here and scroll through a list. The average player may just be looting things from some random house in Markarth, and all of a sudden he sees Pac-Man on a shelf. He takes a job as a hit-man and walks into an orphanage only to hear a line from his favorite musical. He gets in a fight with a drunk at a bar and thinks, "Wait ... did this son of a ***** just quote Paulie?" The hours and hours of gameplay it takes to actually reach and notice (or possibly fail to notice) such odd, fleeting occurrences is what makes them hidden.
Rolled into this is that we can't readily discriminate between super-popular works that virtually everyone has seen or is familiar with, like Alice in Wonderland and its famous tea party, and the more obscure works, because the obscurity of the reference being made doesn't factor into whether the reference is hidden. Relatively few people have heard of CuSith and Garmr, or seen the "Temba, his arms wide" episode of Star Trek: TNG, but that doesn't make them any more well-hidden than the Alice in Wonderland or Annie entries. It's hard to say that the messages they give are "hidden"; they are, after all, names in the game which are readily accessible by simply scrolling over the subjects. But the game doesn't draw attention to the connection, so that's basically enough to satisfy the "hidden" requirement as far as I'm concerned.
Mind you, I'm not totally sold on the Alice in Wonderland thing. It's hard to have a tea party and not make people think of Alice in Wonderland. Though the context (i.e., with Sheo as the Mad Hatter, it's in a forest, and it's all taking place inside someone's mind), gives it some credibility as a reference.
In regards to your Ralof comment, I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on it, at least; perhaps you can make a separate section for it? Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 04:57, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
Good points, all. I wrote my post impulsively, I have to say. Afterward (!) I tried to do a little bit of research on "Easter eggs", in particular searching for "Skyrim Easter Egg*", and found mostly what I would call "references" that don't seem to come close to being "hidden" except for the fact that some people might not notice a reference. There was a "top ten Skyrim Easter eggs" page, starting with, I think, the Notched Pickaxe. But the narrator on the explanatory video remarked, "Well, it's not really an Easter egg." So, yes. Defining them is tough, and even the definitions we might choose (e.g., "hidden") will be complicated. "Maiq the Liar" is not "hidden" in that players will ordinarily run into him if they play for long. Yet we could say that the jokes are "hidden" in the NPC. Starts to make my brain hurt.
I don't know. As with etymologies, one part of me tends to think, "If some people are interested in such, and enjoy discussing them, what does it hurt to provide a place for that?" The only two problems I see with such things is trying to organize them so that they aren't "in the way" of people who don't care about it, and then thinking about whether and how to define any qualifications or standards. Not easy. I was excited about the Ralof thing ... because it happened to me, and it was my thought! Haha. Others are at least as entitled to share what interests or amuses them. I would be willing to try to help think on the issues and discuss them, but it's actually low on my priorities. I'd like to first square away stuff like capitalization and caption punctuation, in terms of "policy/practice" issues, and I think we'll be able to do those things. --JR (talk) 06:19, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
This discussion has been had several times before, at least once in the archives, and the consensus was that everything is fine as is, without differentiating different types of "eggs" further in the page. I'm inclined to agree, as our criteria for eggs are listed at the top of the page. It's true that some of the earlier entries to the page are questionable, and have gone unchecked for too long, as they really don't belong on the page. If you feel there are any like that, you're free to propose removal of the entry and explain why (several such entries have already been removed like this after reconsideration). My personal advice is to not read too much into how our definition is worded; due to the aforementioned discussions, we've had to change the wording and make several distinctions already because there's always someone who gets confused. The important thing to consider is that, regardless of wording, the community has a pretty good idea of what does and does not belong on the page. If there is a consensus that something does belong, it's added; otherwise, it's not. When in doubt, read the archives. Actually, that's something you should be doing before making a proposal anyway. ThuumofReason (talk) 17:54, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
I think the problem many people have in here is that UESP uses its own definition of "easter eggs" (that is, only mentionning references to other works) and they find it too restrictive. There are several things in the game that fit the common definition of the term, such as the mammoth found encased in ice, or the hunters bathing near the Eldergleam Sanctuary. They are worthy of more than a brief mention on the Unmarked Places page and could benefit from an image. I do not wish that people starts posting each and every little thing they thought was odd or funny, of course, but blindly following some rules just because some might abuse it or because it requires more work doesn't really help anyone. I know this isn't the most important thing right now, with all the Dragonborn datas and infos to upload, but if there are so many people asking about it, maybe giving it a second thought would be a good option. Elakyn (talk) 14:33, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

star wars dialogue

When you walk up to Erik in Rorikstead, he and his father are talking about him being an adventurer. His father says "just one more season, then you can go". This seems to be a reference to Luke Skywalker in Star Wars IV where his uncle tells him the same thing when objecting to his leaving. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 17:27 on 17 December 2012

Read the archives. This has already been proposed and rejected multiple times. ThuumofReason (talk) 17:40, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
I just checked all the archives, the only place this was mentioned is on Erik's talk page. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 17:46, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
False. There's a discussion just like this one in archive 4, under the heading "Star Wars". But after a quick review, I can't find any others mentioning this proposal. In any case, I'm not fully convinced that this is a reference. A somewhat similar line of dialogue is about all that connects the two, and that's not enough to go on. In any case, it's a common theme in fiction for young folk out in the country to desire the excitement of big city life, even when their parents protest that they need help to work the family farm. ThuumofReason (talk) 18:11, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
Dismissing things out of hand and sending people to an archive that is somewhat unrelated is very bad form. The scene with Calcelmo is a mumble by Calcelmo that Aicantar doesn't understand. Erik's line is far more in line with the Star Wars quote, because he is looking to leave and his father asks him to stay for one more season. Also Mralki asks him to stay at the farm, when in fact it is an inn he runs. After that Mralki blames his adventurousness on Erik's mother. This particular link has not been given a chance anywhere, and there seems to be enough evidence for me to support it. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:42, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
"Somewhat unrelated?" How so? The linked-to proposal suggested the same connection as the previous one, but with a different instance in the game. I should think that that only makes it MORE likely that this is not intentional, since it happens multiple times in the game. ThuumofReason (talk) 19:36, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
I don't think we should be griping at people to "check the archives" anymore. The archives are twelve freaking pages long, and some the discussions are lengthy. Expecting someone to read through that is unrealistic. As for the Easter Egg, I personally don't think it is specific enough. But, should Erik the Slayer not be on the Easter Egg page anyway? He was apparently named for Immok the Slayer on the Beth forums, and we mention those tributes on the Oblivion and Morrowind pages--~The wind, forsaken~ (talk) 20:16, 17 December 2012 (GMT)
F3 searches aren't hard. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 20:20, 17 December 2012 (GMT)

() "A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will...." Oh, Yoda help us. What strikes me here is an issue of tone, and a decision to pose a response as an effort to help someone vs. a "slap on the wrist". I think many people with perfectly ordinary sensibilities could experience ThuumofReason's reply as unpleasant, even if that was not the intent. Preceding it with "please" would make a big difference. It's a completely reasonable interpretation to see language like this as "You did something wrong, and you're causing (me/us) trouble". I understand it, I think, and I'm sure I do it sometimes, but I think we can and should try to do better (I'm responding to such as a general issue now, not intending to single-out Thuum.) There is no reason to assume that the person wanted to annoy anyone or cause inconvenience. No one can be expected to read through and follow all the policies, guidelines and suggestions here. Unless someone is intentionally causing trouble, a polite answer, with a helpful suggestion, would be a lot better, I think. We depend on encouraging people to connect to the community and be stimulated to contribute, if we want to maintain and develop something we're proud of.

There's a tradition, particularly in "Western culture" that values a pithy retort, unadorned with niceties, and I understand that it can be seen as an effective an even enjoyable way of communicating when everyone is on the same page. But I think we seek to connect with a diverse group of users and editors here, and I think we should aim to support and encourage people as a general attitude. ME's reply here is an example of that, too. It can be experienced simply as the adding of an opinion, or as dismissive and discouraging. I don't buy the whole "if you come on the internet, expect to be challenged and to deal with 'different' personalities, etc." Why? If I'm repeatedly made to feel bad somewhere, I'm likely to go somewhere else, and that could be a real loss to us if it happens to someone who otherwise may develop into a significant, high-quality contributor. There is a problem with the way information is archived (simply chronologically; and as likely to contain meaningless fluff, such as I'm writing now, as pearls of sought information). Nephele wrote about this somewhere (almost certainly in an archive that I'm not going to search for), proposing a better organizational strategy, but stating that it would require a Herculean effort. I'm quite sure that I would ask someone a simple question sometimes, even if I know that I could find the answer myself if I searched long enough and in enough places. Whether or not performing an F3 search 12 or 13 times is "hard" is a subjective question. "A Jedis strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wans apprentice.I wish we could be nicer and friendlier a bit more, and I include myself (though I am pretty damn sweet usually). --JR (talk) 05:03, 18 December 2012 (GMT)

I've tried holding my tongue, but I can't seem to contain my need to respond to this: OH PUH-LEEEZE. JR, by what psychiatrically-diagnosible conceit do you imagine yourself the arbiter of morality and decorum here? Honestly, I try to be a patient person, but your unbounded narcissism, utterly fantastic sense of self-importance, and glaring hypocrisy warrant no leniency. Do you really imagine you are so special and valuable that the world needs your wisdom and guidance on every issue? You make me sick! Yes, sick!! If that's a personal attack, then bring on the lawyers. I can afford at least as good of a team as you can. --The Other J "During a rare moment of perceptive clarity" R (talk)
There's a politeness to brevity. My intent was not to give a "pithy retort", but to boil down my comment to the only truly relevant point I had to add to this discussion, thus saving the time of others.
I think Thu'um was doing the same in his initial post. What some may view as curt, others (such as myself) view as cordial. I think, in accordance with our policy on assuming good faith, that he had a good-faith belief this particular instance had already been discussed, though that statement has apparently turned out to be not entirely accurate. I agree with Silencer that distinct incidents require separate analyses; the discussion on a similar but "somewhat unrelated" incident in the game may be persuasive on this discussion's outcome, but it's not determinative of whether this occurrence is an egg, as it may have more contextual credibility. When Thu'um asserted otherwise, Silencer expressed his concern, which Thu'um took a little too personally.
On the primary topic, here is the relevant exchange from Star Wars: A New Hope:
OWEN: Your only concern is to prepare the new droids for tomorrow. In the morning I want them on the south ridge working out those condensers.
LUKE: Yes, sir. I think those new droids are going to work out fine. In fact, I, uh, was also thinking about our agreement about my staying on another season. And if these new droids do work out, I want to transmit my application to the Academy this year.
Owen's face becomes a scowl, although he tries to suppress it.
OWEN: You mean the next semester before harvest?
LUKE: Sure, there're more than enough droids.
OWEN: Harvest is when I need you the most. Only one season more. This year we'll make enough on the harvest so I'll be able to hire some more hands. And then you can go to the Academy next year.
Luke continues to toy with his food, not looking at his uncle.
OWEN: You must understand I need you here, Luke.
LUKE: But it's a whole 'nother year.
OWEN: Look, it's only one more season.
Luke pushes his half-eaten plate of food aside and stands.
LUKE: Yeah, that's what you said last year when Biggs and Tank left.
AUNT BERU: Where are you going?
LUKE: It looks like I'm going nowhere. I have to finish cleaning those droids.
Resigned to his fate, Luke paddles out of the room. Owen mechanically finishes his dinner.
AUNT BERU: Owen, he can't stay here forever. Most of his friends have gone. It means so much to him.
OWEN: I'll make it up to him next year. I promise.
AUNT BERU: Luke's just not a farmer, Owen. He has too much of his father in him.
OWEN: That's what I'm afraid of.
Now, here is the dialogue between Erik and Mralki:
ERIC: Father, how old were you when you left home?
MRALKI: I know where this is going, son. As I've said many a time. the world is a dangerous place. You're much safer here at the farm, with me.
ERIC: But I don't want to be safe! I'm not afraid of the dangers out there. The only thing I'm afraid of is wasting my life on this farm.
MRALKI: Yes, that's your mother's side of the family talking. Just stay on for one more season, that's all I ask.
Read the NPC and quest page for details.
Thu'um has a point that teenagers wanting to leave and getting resistance from caregivers is a pretty typical situation, even when it's limited to a farm (perhaps especially when it's limited to a farm). So I think we should look more thoroughly at the context surrounding Erik's case and get some input. Even then, we might not agree, but we'll at least flesh out our standards more. At this point, all I really see is "one more season". Does Star Wars have such a strangehold on this phrase, in this situation, that we must conclude there's an intentional "nod and a wink" going on here? I think there's a significant chance that any parallel here was unintentional, even if it was inspired by Star Wars. I'm hesitant to deny it or support it until I've heard what others have to say.
Anil, regarding the precedents you mentioned for Erik being an egg in and of himself, different contexts demand different treatments. Were the occasions documented in Morrowind and Oblivion of a character being named after a person corroborated at all by developers, who were the entries added by, just how long have they been there, were they controversial, was there a discussion, how similar are they to Erik's case, how credible is the connection in this case, has it been corroborated? And in regards to your comment about the archives, I don't believe we should stop asking people to check the archives because I believe discussions on here can sometimes get pretty long; we've covered a lot of ground, and we should rely on those previous discussions to guide us in new discussions, if not forestall them altogether. I do not believe the inconvenience and possible hurt feelings involved with politely asking new proposers to read the archives outweighs the benefits to this talk page (and, indirectly, the page itself), especially given that there are relatively easy ways to comb through the archives, such as footers on the archive pages and quick page searching via the F3 key or other methods.
I could have said all that initially, but Anil and the other contributors have been around the block; the vast majority of this stuff will get answered and dealt with in time if they're serious. I feel like I'm talking down to them merely by stating a lot of this, and generally wasting everyone's time. Also, I was on my phone, and it's kind of hard to write paragraphs, utilize multiple tabs, copy transcripts, or to properly convey whatever little bits of substance you may see above while using that format. Hence, I just made the only salient point I had regarding the one aspect of the conversation where I felt my input was appropriate at this time. I am devoid of hatred of any of you, I respect all of your rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and I do not wish to hamper that pursuit. I am, however, sometimes on a clock, including now. So, keeping in mind especially right now that I hold no one any ill will or wish to be rude to them in any way, please remember that if you perceive malice in the length or format of my responses in the future, your perception has failed you, and this is your problem, not mine. Thank you for your time. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 19:32, 19 December 2012 (GMT)
Minor Edits: Insofar as you respond to my words, I didn't intend to connote "pithy retort" negatively, but rather the opposite, recognizing that such are socially valued by many. "Retort" has a negative "dictionary" sense as well as a positive one, so wasn't the best choice of words. My using it was not triggered by your concise reply above, but the reply to the initial comment, and in general to similar responses to people's honest efforts, however feeble, with something that can reasonably be expected evoke a response like, "I'm not welcome here," unless that's what we are actually aiming to communicate. Essentially, I think the I am not charging anyone with "bad faith." Neither did I intend to prescribe "from on high" what is polite or unpolite. To the extent that I did and/or appeared to do so, I'm trying to correct it and learn from it.
I myself replied to your post about searching archives not being difficult with a "pithy retort": essentially, "that's subjective." You, or others may, quite understandably I think, have seen that as curt, abrasive, dismissive, condescending etc. although I intended to simply (and briefly!) add my opinion. If I were to write it again, I would change just a word or two to show that I acknowledge and respect the opinion and the writer, (and generally I hope I'll get better at that). I don't presume to demand that people write the way I wish them to, and as I tried to express with my humorous (or stupid) follow-up, I'm aware that my own posts often fall short of what I tried to propound as aspirational. Given all that, and the reality that where there is any human relationship there is conflict, I think I just want to opine that some (most?) of us can help build a healthier and more productive community by a bit more often taking a moment to reflect on how our words are likely to be perceived, and possibly adjusting. Maybe few need to hear that more than me, myself, so I guess I at least ask people's indulgence in allowing me the space to remind myself of that. Here's to trying to appreciate the best of what virtually everyone has to offer the wiki, and striving toward patience and generosity for our human weaknesses. I accept that others will hold values different from this, or different ideas on how to best express them. --JR (talk) 06:04, 20 December 2012 (GMT)
Mea culpa. I had never heard of F3 searches.
Ok, so as to Erik as an Easter Egg. Oblivion contains two similar Easter Eggs (NPC's named after real world NPC's) The first is Nath Dyer, who was named after a Nathan McDyer member of Bethesda's quality assurance team. While Bethesda never confirmed the connection, one of the hidden names for the corpse is Nathan McDyer and he is listed in the credits for Oblivion. That Easter Egg was added by Nephele in December 2006 and never was discussed, but I think we can agree it is legit. The second one, Gran Struthe, named after a member of the world art team, was again never officially confirmed by Bethesda. It was again never discussed, but it was added by Rpeh in July 2010. Both of those seem pretty solid to me. Morrowind contains six easter eggs like this, three which are named after forum members who died while the game was in production , and three which are one of the devs inserting himself, his girlfriend and his father into the game. None of these were ever discussed, interestingly we didn't really begin discussing Easter Eggs until Skyrim came along. The dev inserting himself into the game was added in October 2006. From the way the blurb is written, it sounds as though that one was confirmed by the dev in question, but there is no link. The three deceased fans were added by Ratwar in February 2007. So all similar Easter Eggs to this have been around for a few years at least. The Erik the Slayer Easter Egg reference was added in December 2011 by an IP address. Immok the Slayer (real name Erik West) was a modder and member of the Scrollwork studios forum who died of cancer in 2011. Bethesda somehow found out about him and brought him to visit their studio in July 2010 (I can confirm that from a forum post he made). Given the time of his visit (Skyrim would have still been significantly in development at the time), the fact that Bethesda already was specially aware of him, and the precedent of Bethesda adding tributes to forum members who died during production, it seems to me that this is a strong egg.~The wind, forsaken~ (talk) 16:23, 20 December 2012 (GMT)

Lord Harkon has an Irish-ish Accent

I am replaying the Vampire quest line of Dawnguard, and I noticed that Lord Harkon has a slight but noticeable Irish accent. There are other NPCs that carry a Celtic accent, but I believe the game designer gave Harkon (sorry...Lord Harkon) an Irish accent in tribute to the Irish Author of the original Dracula story, Bram Stoker.Stairio (talk) 16:57, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

Any evidence to back this up? --Xyzzy Talk 17:04, 23 December 2012 (GMT)
Haha, no. Not noticeable. —Legoless (talk) 17:12, 23 December 2012 (GMT)
When I think of Harkon's voice, I don't think "Irish". Maybe I don't hang out with enough people from Ireland, but I don't hear the resemblance. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 18:22, 23 December 2012 (GMT)


No idea whether anyone has picked up on this yet or not but the Dark Brotherhood's Nazir is a source of assassination contracts, playing a pretty similar role to terrorist boss Abu Nazir in the TV series Homeland. Would have to check for any further similarities, also Homeland is pretty recent and it's possible that Skyrim was released before Homeland. 22:07, 23 December 2012 (GMT) PurpleHaze

Homeland was released well after Skyrim. And I doubt that Homeland is paying homage to Skyrim. It is probably just a coincidence. Jeancey (talk) 22:10, 23 December 2012 (GMT)
Homeland was first aired in October 2011, a month before Skyrim was released. With those release times this is just a coincidence. Plus Nazir or Nasir is quite a common Arabic name. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 22:19, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

Easter eggs- Yu-gi-oh reference

I have come to realize that Alduin looks a lot like the yu-gi-oh card red eyes black dragon...I noticed it when I saw him reviving one of the dragons he looked a lot like red eyes black dragon it may just be my imagination but next time concentrate on Alduin andt his eyes and the way he looks when in air! — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 12:40 on 30 December 2012

I guess they look vaguely similar, but I don't think it's very likely that Alduin's design was meant to be a reference to anything. Sorry! eshetalk 19:02, 30 December 2012 (GMT)
I highly doubt it for the same reasons Eshe presented. ThuumofReason (talk) 23:49, 31 December 2012 (GMT)

Suggested Fix

Love potion #9 is a song from 1959, the movie only came out 1992. This only really bugs me because I enjoy the song a lot. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 01:02 on 31 December 2012

An Egg usually references something popular. Though the song came first, the movie seems to better known, and even though the film was inspired by the song, that doesn't mean the egg is. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 01:07, 31 December 2012 (GMT)
Are you sure that the movie was more popular? I had no idea that there even WAS a movie until just now... But the specifics to the reference is that salts were used in both cases, so the movie seems to be the reference, not the song. Jeancey (talk) 04:20, 31 December 2012 (GMT)
The relative fame of each is up for debate; personally, I thought the song was better known, but regardless, the reference is to the movie, not the song. ThuumofReason (talk) 16:01, 3 January 2013 (GMT)
is this even an easter egg? i mean sure you give her FIRE salts (ie red salt) to be used in what she says is a love potion but in alchemy your really only ever doing 1 of 3 things. making a poison, making a love potion, becoming immortal. do we have any cinclusive evidence that this was nto just a generic love potion remark from a stereotype female alchemist (apologies to female community i list the stereotypes i do not make them) 10:59, 26 January 2013 (GMT)

Thorin Oakenshield inspired Ulfric?

Just came to the conclusion that Ulfric may have been inspired by Thorin. Both hate elves, are famed for their deeds in battle, fought against a brutish tribe to reclaim invaded land, are fiercely protective of their homelands, come from a line of nobility, and are believed by their followers to be the rightful king of their lands. Its been a while since I read the book so correct me/argue all ya want. Just goin off the movie/what I remember. What do you all think? — Unsigned comment by VivaLaColdplaya (talkcontribs) at 19:22 on 5 January 2013

All coincidental. The only things they have in common with each other, excluding the standard rebel leader background story, is a hatred for Elves. Thorin's hatred comes from a believed betrayal that they refused to help when the dragon attacked, while Ulfric's "hatred" stems from the Thalmor's banning of the worship of Talos. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 19:40, 5 January 2013 (GMT)
Agreed with silencer. ThuumofReason (talk) 21:42, 5 January 2013 (GMT)
Although I don't think Ulfric was modeled after Thorin in any way. I did notice a similarity between Ulfric's clothes and Thorin's clothes in the movie. 4meridia7 (talk) 19:01, 23 January 2013 (GMT)

Lego Lord of The Rings

I know that this isn't in Skyrim but I was playing Lego Lord of the Rings the other day and I talked to a soldier of Rohan and he said, "I used to be a citadel guard and then I took an arrow to the knee." I just thought this was funny because it is a Skyrim reference. Just thought I'd point that out. - The Chez Cake (talk) 07:40, 6 January 2013 (GMT)

It's funny, I'll give you that, but there's no where to place it, because we don't do eggs from other games. Snowmane(talkemail) 07:44, 6 January 2013 (GMT)
I definately agree that there is no where to place it, because yes it from another game. It's just really funny is all. - The Chez Cake (talk) 08:16, 6 January 2013 (GMT)
Well, shouldn't we document it? We document all references in Skyrim - why don't we also document all references to Skyrim? This article would be a good place to put it, but we could always create another article for it. • JAT 19:57, 23 January 2013 (GMT)
The reason why not is because it would be absolutely enormous. The number of places arrow to the knee in particular has popped up is colossal; such a page would be nearly impossible to maintain and if successfully maintained would be too vast to be at all useful. --Morrolan (talk) 02:06, 24 January 2013 (GMT)
Jak, I've never heard of a wiki documenting Easter Eggs from other games, and there is zero precedent on this site to do so, so it seems pointless to go finding references to our games in other games. We document The Elder Scrolls not Lego Lord of the Rings, otherwise, we'd be the Unofficial Lord of the Rings Pages. I think documenting instances like this, either on this page or others, for any of the TES games is a useless venture. ES(talkemail) 02:47, 24 January 2013 (GMT)
Actually, Wikipedia does - an example. Even Wikipedia's Skyrim article mentions these types of Easter eggs. I think it's ridiculous that we're an entire Elder Scrolls wiki, and the one page article they have on Skyrim documents information that we don't. And yes, there's no precedent, but everything has a beginning, doesn't it? • JAT 03:12, 24 January 2013 (GMT)

() That's cool that WP has an example, but we're not WP. Unlike WP, who documentss a summary of the item and then how it's affected pop culture, etc, we document the games and books themselves. Other games referencing TES isn't part of the job description and would be a lot lot harder to keep on top of and have verified and clean. Whereas everyone here has played TES (or should have, otherwise why are you here?) and can verify an "egg", not everyone has played Lego LOTR or whatever, so the market on who can say it's legit and not a coincidence is far slimmer. Even if it was a good idea, I don't see it feasible. But, if you're willing to make this your little project and if it's going to be done across the other gamespaces for consistency, then I'll agree after other people have had a thought about it.

Actually, Jak, since it's your idea to do this, how about making an argument on the CP for this? I've given it my thoughts, and while I disagree, it's still an interesting argument and something like this probaby ought to be brought to wider attention, since most people ignore the disaster that is "SR:Easter Eggs". ES(talkemail) 03:32, 24 January 2013 (GMT)

There's a related forum topic here if you guys are interested. Not a whole lot listed yet, but maybe others will see this join in, add some more, and see if this is worth pursuing. — ABCface 03:59, 24 January 2013 (GMT)
I did some glancing around the intarwebz (yeah, I said "intarwebz", you mad? :P) and most (read: damn near all) of the "references" to Skyrim are related to "arrow in the knee" meme, and that's what it appears such a page or subsection of a page would contain. A list of things that say "I did X and took a Y to the knee (or other body part)". If this were documented, one sentence to the effect of "The phrase 'I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee' has attracted world wide fame as a popular meme that has since been included in many other forms of media" would be sufficient, I would think. The meme, which is about all that SR has going for it in terms of pop culture references according to your link you gave out, is so widespread and accepted into culture everywhere that it would be one long (incredibly redundant) list of the same basic idea concept. That's another reason I want to put up for why I oppose this idea... And, I am done opposing ideas for now. Head's hurting a bit from too much opposing things on various websites :P ES(talkemail) 04:00, 24 January 2013 (GMT)
I agree with Eric here, there's no need and no point to mention things outside of the Elder Scrolls universe. We have enough work to do without broadening the scope of the site to include indirectly-related topics. ThuumofReason (talk) 23:01, 25 January 2013 (GMT)


Doesn't Whiterun look alot like Edoras in Rohan out of the lord of the rings? I mean it is built on a large hill, like Edoras, it has a lower district, like edoras, it has a mid district, like edoras, and it has a castle at the top like edoras. Also inside Dragonsreach the layout is almost exactly the same as the castle in Edoras (I got that off Lego Lord of the Rings :)). - The Chez Cake Talk to the Cheese 22:30, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

Not an Easter Egg. Snowmane(talkemail) 23:34, 8 January 2013 (GMT)
This has been proposed before. Although there are some superficial similarities between Whiterun and Edoras, and the appearance of Edoras in the LOTR movies may have inspired the design of Whiterun, the consensus was that there isn't enough to qualify it as a reference. --Xyzzy Talk 14:33, 9 January 2013 (GMT)
so lazy to redo this but:
Lord of the Rings
In Whiterun, the giant tree there is called the Gildergreen. It is grown from the Eldergleam, the oldest living thing in Skyrim, but is failing. This is similar to the Gondorian capital of Minas Tirith in Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, where the legendary White Tree faces a similar fate.
In Whiterun, during Battle for Whiterun, Hadvar or Ralof can be seen near the city wall after the battle. Whichever one is present makes a reference to Legolas and Gimli's ongoing competition in the movies: "I'm pretty sure I killed more than you. I was counting."
During "A Night to Remember" one of the tasks is to obtain a wedding ring from a hagraven named Moira who will say "My precious" while trying to get the ring from her, in reference to Gollum..
straight from elderscrolls.wikia which ironically use to be a pale imitation of this site but lately has been getting more and more detailed. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 07:09 on 25 January 2013
More detailed doesn't necessarily mean more accurate, especially in the context of a wiki. We have a clear policy of what we do and do not post here: When in doubt, defer to consensus. Multiple consensuses (consensi?) have been reached on this topic, those being that it's not going on the page. We really don't concern ourselves with what the wikia page says for multiple reasons. ThuumofReason (talk) 23:06, 25 January 2013 (GMT)

apologies i did not realise UESP was not a wiki and operated under own rules. i assumed WPnotdemocracy and WPSources where in effect when its clear its not. 08:35, 28 January 2013 (GMT)

Ill Met By Moonlight

The quest name, 'Ill Met By Moonlight' is a reference to the play 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' by William Shakespeare. The reference is contained within Act II, Scene I of the play - where Oberon's line is: "Ill met by moonlight, proud Titania."

(I noticed this due to experience in performing this play, where I was Oberon.) 08:32, 9 January 2013 (GMT)

Somehow I knew that this was about A Midsummer Night's Dream before coming here, but considering the fact that just about anything can be both well and ill met, it must be more to it than both are bad times at night. Of course it could be the whole donkey-man thing, but that's a real stretch.--Br3admax (talk) 11:57, 9 January 2013 (GMT)
I thought this was a reference to the line myself, just because that specific phrase isn't very common. I would support this inclusion, as I had originally posted it on the quest page way back when. ThuumofReason (talk) 12:54, 9 January 2013 (GMT)
I found a full script here[1]. This looks like a legit reference. --Xyzzy Talk 14:37, 9 January 2013 (GMT)
I would support this as well. --~The wind, forsaken~ (talk) 18:14, 9 January 2013 (GMT)
(Original Poster here, just made an account.) In reference to what Br3admax said, perhaps the nature of Bottom indeed, turning into donkey, could be somewhat related to Hircine. Half donkey/half beast, which kind of ties into Hircine's area of expertise. LouiTheKiwi (talk) 01:52, 11 January 2013 (GMT)
That last bit sounds pretty speculative. I think we should just stick to the "Ill met by moonlight" phrase. The wording seems distinctive enough to qualify by itself. --Xyzzy Talk 01:51, 14 January 2013 (GMT)
I agree completely. ThuumofReason (talk) 12:57, 14 January 2013 (GMT)

() the quest name may be simular or inspired off shakespere but anyhting more than that is a major stretch at best. its like the king arthur easter egg and saying all swords found in/near a lake must also be excalibur. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 07:11 on 25 January 2013‎

Eyes of the Falmer D&D Reference?

It seems to me that the scene where Mercer Frey is prying the Eyes of the Falmer from the statue's eye sockets is very similar to the classic AD&D 1'st ed. Player's Handbook cover. Does this qualify? --Wordwyrm (talk) 21:22, 9 January 2013 (GMT)

No, it doesn't. That sounds like a textbook example of a coincidence. ThuumofReason (talk) 23:45, 9 January 2013 (GMT)

Embershard mine

hey, i just realized, maybe the mentioned Embershard mine could be a nod to the game Torchlight? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 00:02 on 11 January 2013

Having a similar does not make it an egg. Considering the item in Torchwood isn't even Ember Shard on it's own (it has other parts to whatever one you choose), and that it is a weapon, means that it would hard pressed to find anything to solidly back this up. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 00:22, 11 January 2013 (GMT)
This is just a coincidence. ThuumofReason (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

Vampire's Kiss

Alva in Mortal may be a reference to the classic Nicolas Cage movie Vampire's Kiss, where Alva is the name of his often abused secretary. Her being a vampire and centered around a vampire-related quest can't be a mere coincidence.

Yes it can.--Br3admax (talk) 22:16, 12 January 2013 (GMT)
It can be a coincidence, and as far as I can make out, it is. Alva in the quest isn't a servant or secretary, nor is she abused; on the contrary, she's the one doing the abusing. I don't see any connection here. ThuumofReason (talk) 17:35, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

sybil of dibella

so i was reading about the oracle of delphi and apparently the women who gave the prophacies where called the sybil (aka pythian prestess, etc). im pretty sure this links up pretty well with the sybil of dibella questline. dunno if its easter egg status tho, but worth mentioning 05:45, 14 January 2013 (GMT)

I'm not sure this is really a reference to anything. Oracles are, by their nature, people who commune with deities to reveal their will to their mortal subjects, so the Sybil of Dibella is just an oracle of that god, not a reference to anything in particular. ThuumofReason (talk) 12:56, 14 January 2013 (GMT)
this is the op. the sybil of dibella is supposed to grow up to become the high priestess and if i remember correctly. give prophacies to the other guide the religous order there,men and women. the sybil at the oracle also gave up her life early to become the sybil, but the delphic mysteries (the spiritual tradition taught there) was open to men. im not sure if the sybils are taken from their homes like skyrim, or if it is their decision but they must be young because only virgins could train/take the position. 15:06, 14 January 2013 (GMT)
sorry for grammer/spelling errors, typing one letter at a time on xbox
i must disagree thuum, i feel this is a pretty obvious reference, sybil of dibella and sybil of delphi are very similar. also if the sybil of dibella was a simple orae cle why not call her an oracle, the word sybil, when refering to oracles, comes from delphi. the stone the priestess sat on when giving prophicies was called the sybil stone. give me a bit and ill gather more evidence. i really feel like this is a pretty obvious reference, as i have been interested in mystery schools for some time. 15:16, 14 January 2013 (GMT)
ok so, the sybil and the oracle at delphi are different things, both gave prophicies but the actual "oracle of delphi" were the the pythian preistesses. this may or may not be a reference to the delphic sybil, but it is most defenetly a reference to greek culture and mythology and one of those sybils, religous leaders basically, for the vast pantheon of greek gods. i will comb thru the various other sybil to see if i can find some more references. 15:28, 14 January 2013 (GMT)
Sibyl seems to be a rather broad term throughout history. Looking at the Wikipedia page, there are numerous Sybils in numerous cultures in numerous centuries. I'd oppose it's inclusion - seems quite a general title, and Easter eggs should be specific. Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 17:57, 14 January 2013 (GMT)

Lord of the Rings

In Angarvunde, in the rift you can find an open box with a broken steel sword handle, a ring and a skeleton hand. This has to be a reference to lord of the rings where Isildur cuts off Saurons hand with his fathers broken sword. 02:42, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

Seems too generic to me. Are you certain the sword is broken? Vely►t►e 03:02, 15 January 2013 (GMT)
Also, are you certain that this happens every time? Do the objects start close by each other when the cell is loaded, or are they random treasures? Maybe they were knocked around and landed in the same spot. If we could get some exterior confirmation of this, it would make it seem a little less iffy to me. A screenshot wouldn't hurt either. ThuumofReason (talk) 14:48, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

i also had a similar thing happen but with just the handle and the ring i think that just might have fallen near

It happens every time, however the ring itself has no connection to LotR, nor is it enchanted. It's random ring loot.--Br3admax (talk) 02:27, 21 January 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for the confirmation, Bread. I'd have to say I don't think this is a connection if that's the case. ThuumofReason (talk) 13:06, 21 January 2013 (GMT)
drat, just foudn this chest for first and was goign to mention it.
while ring is random loot more often than not it is enchanted (then again more enchants than normals) so i figured hand + broken sword + ring had to be LOTR. good news is after reloading game multiple times i can confirm this chest loot stays the same. first few times i thought maybe my save affects it but i wondered to over boxes and confirmed loot stays random elsewhere. only the ring enchat seems to alter. yet to check CK but i am guessing its been set to hand/sword and random ring as its inventory. anyway as mentioned it visually seems simular but without a necromancer or clear villan loosing the arm its just random loot at best. may even be quest related not to sure. 10:55, 26 January 2013 (GMT)

Aiming disfunction?

Inside Fort Dunstad, there is a potion of true shot (confirmed to be there, and not aleatory loot)near a latrine. Well, has somebody made the connection? — Unsigned comment by Foacir (talkcontribs) at 21:47 on 16 January 2013

Please read the definition of easter egg at the top of the page. This isn't the kind of thing we mention here. ThuumofReason (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2013 (GMT)

Chicken Necromancer?

ESE of Ivarstead and NEN of The Ruins of Bthalft, is a Novice Necromancer practicing his summoning on chickens, and a small nest shrine. Not sure if it was just a random occurrence, or if it's a reference to something, but I need closure guys... — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 13:18 on 21 January 2013‎

This has been discussed once before in the archives. I really don't think it's a reference to anything. ThuumofReason (talk) 13:20, 21 January 2013 (GMT)
Ah, thanks anyway, I was pretty confused when I stumbled across it. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 13:28 on 21 January 2013


You get the Wabbajack during the Skyrim:The Mind of Madness quest. Considering the name and description of the weapon, as well as the quest it happens in (references Alice in Wonderland), I think we've got a reference of some kind here. Even though the Jabberwock was a creature and Wabbajack a weapon of insanity. --DaVince (talk) 14:11, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

Wabbajack has been in previous Elder Scrolls games. Even if it were a reference, which I don't think it is, it wouldn't belong on this page. ThuumofReason (talk) 14:24, 21 January 2013 (GMT)
It definitely seems like a legitimate reference, but the Wabbajack has already appeared in previous TES games. —Legoless (talk) 16:55, 21 January 2013 (GMT)
I noticed it was in previous games, but I feel this is something like a new (Bethesda) developer discovering it and thinking "Hey, this sounds like Jabberwock"... Then making their own reference out of it. Also, considering the unique situation it is in in Skyrim I think mentioning the reference wouldn't be appropriate anywhere but on this page. (note: I haven't checked where/how the weapons appears in the other games, though) --DaVince (talk) 20:14, 21 January 2013 (GMT)
Last note, which I will just copy here for everyone's benefit.
  • The staff's name is a probable reference to the Lewis Carroll poem "Jabberwocky", which is a nonsensical poem describing an unpredictable creature.
I am of the opinion that they are merely reusing the reference to Alice in Wonderland, but merely under a different situation. I am neither for or against inclusion. One the one hand, it's a reference that's been used in Oblivion and mentioned, but on the other hand, the setting of the quest is slightly closer to the source. That said, the reference is the same, as the staff does the exact same thing in both games (random transformation into another creature), although I am unsure of it's Daggerfall function, opting to use the more familiar Oblivion reference.
I am on the fence, like I said, but I want to lean towards not including it as a reference, because the reference would be identical to the Oblivion reference, since we are talking about the function of the staff as a reference, not the quest as a whole, which has been documented. ES(talkemail)

Lord of the Rings [2]

The tree in Whiterun has to be a reference to the white oak in Minas Tirith. Both are white, both have no leaves, both are dying and both are outside the rulers home (Steward's hall/throne room in minas Tirith and dragonreach in Whiterun)— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 19:09 on 22 January 2013‎ (GMT)

Check the archieves. Such things have been discussed multiple times.--Br3admax (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2013 (GMT)
this easter egg has been refrenced more often than notch and even confirmed in several areas. can nto believe its still not added in. it was even planted/blessed by a god which was the same method as LOTR as mentioned in the simularian — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 07:06 on 25 January 2013‎
Actually, the White Tree of Gondor was planted by Isisdur, a mortal man, not a god. In addition, the Gildergreen was killed by a lightning strike, while the White tree died when the last heir to the throne of Gondor died. That leaves only the similarity that both are dying/dead white trees planted within a city. Not enough, IMO, to call it a reference. --Xyzzy Talk 21:53, 25 January 2013 (GMT)
wow you lot have pretty strict OR for what is and is not a easter egg. i get being the offical wiki it needs a partial consenceus. but its pretty clear a large white tree smack bang in the middle of a town that is a holy symbol of faith can really only have one meaning. unless you know of other white holy tress that just happening to be laying around dieing? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 10:45 on 26 January 2013‎

The Bourne Ultimatum

Given Joan Allen's performance in the game, I think the name "Black-Briar" is pointing to the Bourne Ultimatum, in which Allen acted in. She played a senior CIA officer in charge of a program code-named "Black Briar". Augster101 (talk) 23:45, 25 January 2013 (GMT)

This might be more convincing if Joan Allen voiced Maven, but Delphine doesn't have anything to do with the Black-Briars. This seems pretty coincidental to me. ThuumofReason (talk) 00:11, 26 January 2013 (GMT)

Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe?

Could the hunting of the white stag for Hircine be likened to the hunting of the "milk-white stag" by the adult Pevensies' at the end of LWW book? The final chapter is called "The Hunting of the White Stag". Is this just coincidence or is it an Easter egg? Thelisaraptor (talk) 16:02, 27 January 2013 (GMT)

I would call it a coincidence. ThuumofReason (talk) 17:10, 27 January 2013 (GMT)
No. Whits stags are present in many mythologies and fictions that came before Narnia books. It's kind of like a dragon: Common. Vely►t►e 17:30, 27 January 2013 (GMT)
So, if the white stag is too common to be referencing Narnia, shouldn't it also be too common to be referencing Arthurian Lore, as is currently stated in the article? --Xyzzy Talk 20:29, 28 January 2013 (GMT)
Yes, in my opinion. Celtic mythology appears to be the oldest appearance, I think (it at least came long before Arthurian legends), and as I said, it's common. As another example, mithril in fantasy worlds isn't a reference to Tolkein's works, despite that being its origin. Vely►t►e 20:48, 28 January 2013 (GMT)

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