Template talk:Online NPC Summary

Sells2

Just a quick note on the sells2 parameter. Since this seems to be a one-off case so far, I simplified the code slightly with the sells2plural variable. If it becomes necessary to add this to more than just Online:Ladrelas, the code should be expanded to do the same things that the normal sells parameters does. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:45, 8 March 2015 (GMT)

Factions

This template is currently unable to correctly categorize NPCs with two factions. Can this be fixed so that it works similarly to Template:NPC Summary? —Legoless (talk) 19:24, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Blech! In trying to make the template simpler to use, it's been made harder to change. If we're only ever going to need two, then I can just add a faction2 parameter and follow the existing coding. If we need the flexibility to add more than that, then I'll probably have to re-write the factions and run a bot job to convert all the existing calls to either use traditional links, the {{Faction}} template, or perhaps a simplified Online Faction template (since ranks aren't needed in ESO). – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:26, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

We most likely already want more than two, to be honest. A second param might work for now though. —Legoless (talk) 20:31, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, if we're gonna do it, I suppose we should do it right. :) I'll get to work on the bot job. It should be fairly simple. Looking at the existing Faction template, I think that's easiest to go with, even if it's a bit more complex than we need. No real point having two templates to do the same basic thing. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:40, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

It's just that it makes it harder to see the specific category with all the NPCs belonging to a faction. For exemple, I just added Pirondil to the First Auridon Marines faction but he doesn't actually show up in the category for said faction. If there is a way to make it so, I would appreciate it. --Ian Da Man (talk) 22:13, 17 October 2015 (UTC)--Ian Da Man (talk) 22:13, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

You should use the {{Faction}} template now. I just made the change to Pirondil, so you can see what needs to be done for other NPCs. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 22:26, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Ah I see, thanks for showing me. --Ian Da Man (talk) 22:30, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

"Loottype"

How many types are there? I've noticed the following so far - Artisan, Bard, Commoner, Fisher, Guard, Laborer, Noble, Smith, Soldier, Student, Warrior. Tib (talk) 12:33, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Also Watchman, Priest and Alchemist. At least that I've seen.Jeancey (talk) 13:01, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

And Beggar, Gatherer, Merchant, Outlaw and Pilgrim! Tib (talk) 13:00, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

I've also seen Mage, Hunter, Provisioner! How many of those exist? I'm not sure what is the point of listing this here, but I feel completely obsessed :O Tib (talk) 17:15, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

A full list of these may be useful in the end anyway, as theoretically, each loottype should always produce the same types of Contraband. --Enodoc (talk) 22:23, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is what you're after or not, but here's what's in use on the wiki currently (which may or may not be a complete list of what's in the game): Alchemist, Artisan, Bard, Beggar, Civil Servant, Clothier, Commoner, Cultist, Drunkard, Farmer, Fighter, Fisher, Gatherer, Healer, Hunter, Laborer, Mage, Medium, Noble, Outlaw, Pilgrim, Priest, Prisoner, Provisioner, Sailor, Scholar, Slave, Smith, Soldier, Student, Warrior, Watchman. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 00:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Which page is loottype=Medium? That seems like a mistake. It seems like someone (probably me) put the pickpocket value in the loottype param.... Jeancey (talk) 20:39, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Online:Umuor – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 02:31, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

A Medium is someone who communes with the dead or extra-dimensional beings. Plenty of that in this game. (Not sure if that's the context in which it's being used here, but it could be...) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 11:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

(←) I was right (and wrong since I was the source of the mistake to begin with). The pickpocket value and loottype were switched (he was a sailor). Jeancey (talk) 14:35, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I remember in Velyn Harbor that there was a lootable npc which had the loottype "vampire". I'll have to find them again, as it was --Talyyn (talk) 22:52, 20 August 2018 (UTC)a surprise the last time around.

Pickpocket

The pickpocket param is now displaying on all pages if the data is missing, even though most NPCs can't be pickpocketed. —Legoless (talk) 01:48, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

I've just removed the {{huh}} for now. Jeancey clearly thought there should be one, so I'm not sure if we want one under certain conditions or if that was just a mistake. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 01:53, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Whoops. Previously if there was a loottype, it was displaying {{{pickpocket}}}. I figured that it should have a huh if the loottype is displayed. The best solution would be to only display it on a page if the loottype is also displayed, since anything with a loottype will have a pickpocket level of some sort. Jeancey (talk) 20:53, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Okay, it should work like that now. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 23:34, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Oh and here's a list of pages where there's a loottype without a pickpocket value: Old Frikkhild, Rendarion, Bralis Ramothran, Angren, Aurelia Barbula, Belenius Lentinus, Dulroi gra-Grumush, Fawzhah, Huzbifah, Isara Fralinie, Jasmine Geves, Perranas, Rokrya, Valiano, Egelnor, Casorlaure, Dozheem, Hadonia, Dan-Meesei, Dowoseez, Nallorwen, Sahledir, Faninmandon, Gyda Stormcrag, Helazh at-Renazh, Kamzith, Lenaninwe, Lokka Stormcrag, Noble, Brunka, Dolwinora, Dragonstar Caravaneer, Eslendore, Gold Coast Trader, Herminius Andus, Nalosi Orethi, Resolute Votary, Resolute Warden, Savilian Colus, Shadowbanish Vinter, Shadowbanish Vintner, Steidor, Vile's Contriver. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 07:00, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Loot

Since this template is used in Online for all npcs, and ESO treats creatures as NPCs, should there be a "loot"/drops section to this template? Timeoin (talk) 23:28, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Yeah that sounds good. The Creature Summary in the other namespaces has a drops parameter, so it would make sense to add that to this one too, if we can be sure that drops are consistent enough for that to work. --Enodoc (talk) 11:36, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

For reference, im talking the basic loot-types that don't vary, not every type of "trash" loot. Specific Example: Scamps have a chance to drop Daedra Hearts, as well as the unique collectibles. The Unique Items list would also be added too, as it is highly useful to add. (Downside... im not good enough at templates to add it without breaking something)

drops parameter added. It's the same as on Template:Creature Summary. --Enodoc (talk) 23:06, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Further Addendum

Should there also be one for "ID", since the logs list npc's id? (Similar to how construction set identifies IDs for other games in the series?) Timeoin (talk) 23:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

An example for description purposes: Tunasi would have an id of "4410".

The ID in the logs is just the record ID, not an ID for the NPC. There may be IDs for the NPCs, but if there are, we don't have them. --Enodoc (talk) 11:36, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

It has both. Theres a consistent ID across multiple loggers for npcs? Timeoin (talk) 21:12, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Looking at http://esolog.uesp.net/viewlog.php?sort=id&sortorder=a&record=npc, I only see one id number, and that's the record ID. --Enodoc (talk) 23:06, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Change "Category: Online-NPCs with Variable Stats" to "Category: Online-Variable Race NPCs"

I think the Category:Online-NPCs with Variable Stats that is applied by the template is misleading and should be renamed (to "NPCs with Variable Race" or "Variable Race NPCs") as it only consists of NPCs with variable race anyway. NPCs with variable health (such as Lyranth) are not included and for NPCs with variable gender, there is a separate category. --Holomay (talk) 06:56, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Considering that the check is linked directly to the race variable, I see this as non-controversial, so I'll go ahead and make the change. It'll take quite some time for the old category to clear out and the new one to populate, though. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 07:53, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! In case we want a variable health cat - is it at all possible to make a check on the health parameter for a "variable" cat when the values are formatted as in the Lyranth infobox? We probably need an extra parameter like "healthcat" then? --Holomay (talk) 09:44, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

In a quick check, it looks like {{ESO Health}} gets parsed first, so as long as that ends up with text we can reliably check for, it should be possible. Alternatively, we might be able to add it to {{ESO Health}} directly, depending where else it's used. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:58, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

The category has never been only those whose race is variable, it includes those whose gender is too. Now we have the complication of a subcategory for variable-gender NPCs which was entirely avoidable by leaving things alone because there was nothing wrong with it. My vote is to change it back before anything more is screwed up. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 19:50, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

I've looked at the new categories being requested, and I see what you mean. I'll have a look at it. (Edit: there is nothing different here that I can see apart from the name change.) However, contrary to your assertion, the category for variable stats was only dependent on race in the old code. The gender categorization was buggy, and having a variable gender didn't get an NPC into the NPCs with Variable Stats category, at least not as the code stood when I started to make changes. Therefore, it makes sense to have the Variable Race category. If needed, we can recreate the Variable Stats category as a parent category to Variable Race and Variable Gender. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:58, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Oh, you're right that there is one new set of categories which the old template didn't create: the Variable Gender subcategories for each race (including variable race). Those are easy to remove if desired, but I think it's more consistent to have them, given that there are already -Male and -Female categories. While the category pages hadn't been created, NPCs with Variable Stats-Male and NPCs with Variable Stats-Female are examples from the old categorization. Variable Gender was excluded from categorization based on gender, except for Online-Variable Gender NPCs. That was the only category where Variable Gender NPCs showed up specifically (though they would've shown up under Variable Stats if their race had also been variable). – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 21:32, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, "it only consists of NPCs with variable race" wasn't the right wording - I should have written that the categorization was only dependent on the race parameter. Most of the NPCs in the category had variable gender, too, but that was pure coincidence as most variable race NPCs also have variable gender. We can recreate the Variable Stats cat, but if we do that, we have to consider which parameters can be defined as "stats". If it's only a parent cat for variable health and gender without including variable health NPCs, I still think the cat name would be misleading. Also, there are NPCs who change their reaction. --Holomay (talk) 22:20, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

(←) I was also a little hasty with my wording. Variable gender NPCs were rolled into the same category by explicitly excluding them from having their own if their race was also variable, that is why the category was named 'stats'. If it was set it generated a category for "Race-Variable Gender". TRL added that single "Variable Gender" cat last January, but the "Race-Variable Gender" categories are being produced. I would say that every NPC with a variable race has a variable gender, the only one out of the 51 in those two categories that might not be is based on my ingame observation which is limited and would also make it different to the similar NPCs added at the same time (The Highland Lion). Conversely there is at least one named variable gender NPC with a fixed race, and that is the possible result of a quest, the gender is fixed when you first meet them. There are a number of generic fixed race-variable gender NPCs, mostly of the Reachmen or Thalmor factions. Categories are not generated for health or reaction, so there is no need to concern ourselves about whether or not they should be included in a 'stats' category if they are variable when there are none for when they are fixed.

From what I am seeing, the "Variable Gender NPCs" category is no longer being produced, it has reverted to "Variable NPCs". If gender and race are variable, then it produces "Variable Race NPCs-Variable Gender". These should at least be separated if they aren't going to be rolled back together. There is no value in having a "Race-Variable Gender" that is why TRL moved them in the first place. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 15:56, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

I'll go over the rest later, but in regards to your last paragraph, the lack of "Variable Gender NPCs" was an oversight on my part and I've fixed it now, thanks to you and Holomay both pointing it out. :) – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 00:19, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Creating database errors

The line that contains [[Category:{{NS_CATEGORY}}-Creatures-{{{racecat}}}]] auto-generates an invalid Wanted Category called [[Category:Online-Creatures-]] on pages where nothing is populated in the race= parameter. --NibKing (talk) 04:21, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the report. The problem has now been fixed, though it may take a while before Wanted Categories is fully cleaned up. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 06:55, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

That was quick. Thanks for the reply. --NibKing (talk) 08:26, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Displaying Friendly Health

I brought this up over a year ago and everyone thought it was a good idea, but I forgot about it up until now. Basically, the template should go back to how it was a few years ago and display health for Friendly npcs. The reason it stopped doing this is because it would display a ^(?) in infoboxes that did not have the parameter filled in and that looked unnecessary on friendly npcs. The proposal is to have the infobox show Friendly health if it is filled in, but if it isn't, it won't show a (?): the parameter just won't visibly show up on the infobox if its empty. Reasons friendly health can be important is usually because of follower npcs that get knocked down if they run out of health, and npcs that can be healed (ie Tharayya) and their health value is important. When I last spoke to RobinHood about it he said it should be an easy enough change so I think we should have it fixed. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 21:10, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I just made this change. Let me know if everything looks good. You might need to purge some pages to get it to show, jut because of how clogged the job queue is right now. Also, if it should become necessary, you can make health not display on Justice Neutral pages and such just by using |health= with nothing after it. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 22:58, 9 April 2021 (UTC)