Morrowind talk:Easter Eggs

The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995
Jump to: navigation, search
Archives
Archive 1: April 2006 - September 2011

Art of War Magic[edit]

I don't think this is an easter egg. They most likely used Sun Tzu's Art of War as a reference, rather than trying to make it an easter egg. Ongoingwhy 16:04, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

The quotes given as from the Art of War Magic are actually word-for-word (apart from substitutions like "Battlemage" for "fighter") transcriptions of a certain translation of the Art of War. The ones given as from the Art of War are from a different and somewhat more long-winded translation. Presumably someone at Bethesda had the former translation on their shelves. -TF 24.246.40.169 23:21, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
One of the commentaries by a learned person (The nord shaman and the ice demon thing) was quite similar to the tale of Kenneth MacAlpine. In ken's story, the Vikings beat apart his army each time. However, he quickly asks a man to dress up as an angel and encourage the men. Quite similar to the other story. The Wrathen 09:44, 25 July 2013 (GMT) — Unsigned comment by Nikss (talkcontribs)

Lament Configuration[edit]

It occurred to me, beginning the Main Quest, that the Dwarven Puzzle Box is most likely an Easter Egg. First off, the name itself rang a bell to me, reminding me of the Puzzle Box from he Hellraiser movie series. The eldritch nature of the Dwemer ruins as a whole also seemed to fit the profile. I thought that was neat, and left it there.

Now, what REALLY hit home is the design of the Puzzle Box itself, as well as the description offered in-game. As it turns out, the Box is literally modeled after the aforementioned Lament Configuration. Compare, if you will, the image found on this website's database for the Puzzlebox, with the one found here: ht tp://fc02.deviantart.net/images2/i/2003/50/8/c/Lament_configuration.jpg (link is working as of this writing, remove the space btewenn the "ht" and "tp").


This was recently added to the article, so I moved it here:

Travel to Arkngthand. The Puzzle Box can be found in the Cells of Hollow Hand section of the ruin, just underneath where you enter (on a lower shelf). The Dwemer Puzzle Box is reference to Lament Configuration puzzle box from Hellraiser series.

I'm not sure this qualifies as an egg, even if the reference is correct, as the puzzle box is part of the main quest. --Gaebrial 08:27, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

(Then I noticed it had already been mentioned) --Gaebrial 08:30, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Mortal Kombat reference[edit]

At a random time there is ashes marked "Kaoh Shan" found in a random cave. the name Kaoh Shan can be rearanged to spell "Shao Kahn" which is the name of the main antagonist of most Mortal Kombat games. — Unsigned comment by 124.171.93.40 (talk)

Just moving this to the talk page for some review. Minor Edits 06:38, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

moved[edit]

". Note: This is false. It just appears this way because sometimes the game will spawn creatures above the PC. This gives the illusion of 'giant monsters'. "

this was added to the end of the huge creatures section, as i have never seen them before i dont know if this is true, but that isnt the right way to say its false. (Eddie The Head 08:08, 6 January 2012 (UTC))
It is true. As the article states, there is a single spawnpoint west of Vos with a scale set to 2.0. So the creature that spawns is double the size. I have seen giant kagouti and guar there.--Gaebrial 09:06, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Scroll of Icarian Flight[edit]

I'm not sure if this is counted as an easter egg, but the scroll of Icarian Flight is a clear reference to Icarus from Greek mythology.

In the story, Icarus and his father, Daedalus, are trapped in the labyrinth on Crete. Daedalus builds two sets of wings out feathers and wax, so that both of them can escape. He tells Icarus not to fly too close to the sun because the wax will melt. Icarus ignores this, and dies.

When you use the scroll of Icarian Flight, you jump very high in the air and almost always die when you fall back down. — Unsigned comment by Evlydia (talkcontribs) at 20:25 on 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Read the article. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 20:25, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


Tribute to 1970's Pittsburgh Pirates[edit]

There are two Redguards in the game that are clearly named after players on the baseball team the Pittsburgh Pirates. Molag Mar's "Stenet" corresponds with Rennie Stennett, and Balmora's "Stargel" corresponds with Willie Stargell.

As far as I can tell, there are no others. Dr. Memory 05:34, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't think so... They're not located close together, and there's nothing else connecting them to these people, is there? Stenet is the past tense of "to stone (with rocks)" in Norwegian, and there are multiple people with the last name Stargel. There's also a company or two for each name, with no spelling changes. Is there anything linking them to the baseball players more than these things, if there even is a reference? --Velyanthe 16:16, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, two random unconnected names out of over 4000 does not an easter egg make. If the entire starting line-up was found in the game or something like that, you might have something. Anything less than that is just coincidence. (And why the Pirates anyhow? If anything I'd think the Orioles would be more likely, since Bethesda is in Maryland.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 04:21, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Phantom sheep[edit]

How about the sound of non-existing sheep? File can be found in: Morrowind\Data Files\Sound\Fx\REGN It's called 'howl7'. It can be heard sometimes while traveling in Ashlands. I'm not sure if it's an easter egg and what it means. But it's very funny--88.103.57.143 19:11, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Madach and Camonna[edit]

I don't know if it's only a coincidence, but the Madach tradehouse in Gnisis might be a reference to him: Imre Madách. Also it's possible that the Camonna Tong is a reference to the Camorra the mafia of Naples, as the Camonna Tong is something like a mafia in the game. — Unsigned comment by Nikita (talkcontribs) at 11:14 on July 14, 2012

The Matrix[edit]

I know this may be a bit of a stretch but in the first Matrix, Neo goes to the oracle and she says 'I am sorry, but you are not the one, it looks like you are waiting for something.' yet when you go to the first wise woman for the main quest, she says the exact same thing about you being the Nerevarine.Rexwar 19:32, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Old Magic Sounds[edit]

In Morrowind\data files\sound\fx\magic\old there are old magic effect sounds ("hit" spells are mostly thunder), and if you play the spell "cast" sounds, most of them sound like the theme to The Jetsons cartoon, or at least variations of it. — Unsigned comment by 67.142.175.22 (talk) at 02:42 on 7 August 2012

1984[edit]

The 'Ministry of Truth' in 1984 is not a building, but a government department.

It's something of a stretch to say that 'telepaths' are 'a clear reference to the Thought Police of 1984'. There's a big difference between 'telling whether someone's telling the truth to the boss' and the concept of 'thoughtcrime', and the idea of using telepaths in this way is pretty commonplace.--60.234.222.144 11:48, 24 December 2012 (GMT)

By OPs' logic, it's also a clear Babylon 5 reference... Ministry of Truth however is lifted right out of 1984. — Unsigned comment by 24.36.146.187 (talk) at 09:59 on 25 July 2013

James Bond - A view to a kill. (1985)[edit]

Bit of a long shot but when watching this movie the other night I heard the line "Why walk when you can ride?" in reference to taking a carriage through a mine, I immediately thought I had heard it before and soon remembered the slit strider drivers say the exact line as a random greeting on occasion. As there is not a great deal of spoken dialog in the game it could be worth noting. — Unsigned comment by ‎GoatLiver (talkcontribs) at 12:54 on 10 January 2013

Why walk when you can ride is a pretty common phrase, I've heard it quite a few times in old westerns. I think that this is just a common line that happened to appear in both movies. Just my opinion though :) Jeancey (talk) 16:17, 10 January 2013 (GMT)

1984 egg in Arena & Daggerfall - copied from article[edit]

Also, during character creation, one of the questions is "There is a lot of heated discussion at the local tavern over a grouped of people called 'Telepaths'. They have been hired by certain City-State kings. Rumor has it these Telepaths read a person's mind and tell their lord whether a follower is telling the truth or not." This is an obvious reference to the thought police in 1984, who report those guilty of "Thought Crime". This same reference was in Arena and Daggerfall.

If this reference was also present in the first two games, wouldn't that make its appearance here and in Daggerfall historical references rather than eggs? I couldn't find easter egg pages for Arena & Daggerfall, so I'm not sure how this should be handled. --Xyzzy Talk 16:16, 4 August 2013 (GMT)

It doesn't even seem like a concrete reference to me. Nothing to do with thought crime. —Legoless (talk) 00:46, 5 August 2013 (GMT)
I agree with you. The thought police in 1984 couldn't actually "read minds". They were just called that because they attempted to catch party members committing "thought crimes", which was more along the lines of verbally or non-verbally expressing opinions that were contrary to what was expected of them (I just finished listening to the audiobook). I thought about challenging this as an egg, but was hesitant due to the length of time it has been on the page. --Xyzzy Talk 04:59, 5 August 2013 (GMT)
I do wish to challenge this egg. The reference is too much of a stretch. --Nocte|Chat|Look 06:19, 5 August 2013 (GMT)

Bob Dylan - "Too Much of Nothing"[edit]

The title of the book The Waters of Oblivion in Battlespire, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim might derive from the chorus of the Bob Dylan song "Too Much of Nothing": "Say hello to Valerie, / Say hello to Vivian, / Send them all my salary / On the waters of oblivion." — Unsigned comment by 67.255.8.43 (talk) at 09:56 on 16 September 2013

There is absolutely nothing in common, other than the title, between this book and the song. A google search for "waters of oblivion" brings up an 1812 oil painting based on a 1764 story"Tales of the Genii", in which the protagonist attempts to find "the waters of oblivion" that will erase memory. Clearly, this is a figure of speech, though somewhat archaic, not a direct reference. --Xyzzy Talk 17:11, 16 September 2013 (GMT)

Terminator reference[edit]

I think I found a Terminator reference in Morrowind. I had a good look through the pages but couldn't find it anywhere.

I passed Eraamion in the Caldera Mage's Guild and he said "I don’t recall using teleportation. And there I was. Alone. Naked."

Now I don't know if it's specific to him or to all characters or what. But like I said I couldn't see it here nor had I ever seen it before in the game.

Hazman (talk) 05:09, 21 September 2013 (GMT)

Not sure if I'm reading this right, but it looks like CSList says that this is idle dialogue that can be spoken by any High Elf. Seems too unspecific to me to call it a Terminator reference, though. --Xyzzy Talk 05:50, 24 September 2013 (GMT)
Oh alright. Yeah I just noticed it was said by a couple of other Altmer earlier. That was just the first thing that came to mind when I heard it thoughHazman (talk) 06:02, 25 September 2013 (GMT)

The Short Unhappy Life of Danar Uvelas[edit]

Discussion moved from Morrowind_talk:The Short Unhappy Life of Danar Uvelas#Easter Egg

Hello, I wanted to signal that the quest's name is a play on words on the title of Hemingway's short story "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber". Vinyadan — Unsigned comment by 78.35.244.193 (talk) at 11:13 on 14 December 2013

Funny Sound - Moved from Article[edit]

Within the Morrowind\Data Files\Sound\Fx directory, there is an audio file named "funny.wav" which does not appear in the game. This file is of a synthesized voice saying "Critical Damage" in a rising pitch. However, if played backwards, you will get the sound of the voice saying "Sam has no pit hair".

The line in itallics has been added by 92.239.118.66 (Talk).

I've looked into it and undone his addition, for I think this is just a vague interpretation. Many sounds sound funny if played backwards. -- SarthesArai Talk 20:38, 14 December 2013 (GMT)

I agree with your thoughts.---Ratwar (talk) 23:03, 22 December 2013 (GMT)
That Easter egg has been around a long time. Apparently Sam was the name of a developer, but I don't know if the egg was ever officially confirmed. It was removed before after this discussion. —Legoless (talk) 18:05, 24 December 2013 (GMT)

Yngling Half-Troll, Yuengling Beer?[edit]

Might Yuengling have been the favorite beer of one of the developers, inspiring the first name of Yngling_Half-Troll? Not sure where the half-troll bit would come from though. 71.91.127.129 03:55, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

I can't see any similarity between the NPC and the company, and the names are only vaguely similar, which isn't enough. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:13, 16 July 2014 (GMT)
Also, Yngling is a Scandinavian name. —Legoless (talk) 18:55, 16 July 2014 (GMT)
As seen in the article provided above, it is not just any Scandinavian name, but a name for the (semi-legendary) oldest known Scandinavian dynasty, from which the actual historical Fairhair dynasty (the dynasty of the first Norwegian kings) is descended. The name derives from Yng, which can be seen as another name for the Nordic god Freyr (Yngling - literally "the descendant of Freyr"). Giving the fact that Yngling Half-Troll is a Nord (a race which is throughout all Elder Scrolls games heavily influenced by medieval Scandinavian people), this could, in my opinion, very well be an easter-egg. Jelena (talk) 21:39, 2 January 2015 (GMT)

Kagouti Sound Placeholders[edit]

After listening to them for a while, I started twiddling the settings on the sounds for a bit. It seems like they actually used the cute cat sounds, albeit lowered in frequency , and then added several layers of sound effects and an echo in the background. I can 100% confirm this for the scrm and scrm2, and I matched the roar and roar2 for around 70%. The moan I'm not so sure about, but it sounds like they cut of the purr at the end and added an echo of the beginning sound. Anyway, someone probably already looked into this, but it doesn't have a confirmed status yet.

--Phoenix258 (talk) 00:13, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

To me, scrm.wav actually sounds like the "alert" sound of the pig cops in Duke Nukem 3D. Likewise, some magic effect sounds (for example the first part of the "teleportation" sound when using Intervention, Recall or a Guild Guide) are also identical or very similar to ones I've heard in games older than Morrowind, like Heroes of Might & Magic 3. It's more than likely that some of the sound effects in the game were taken from a stock sound effect library. Just a random thought, it could still be that they edited the cat sounds instead. Nuppiz (talk) 22:25, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Hall of Justice and Hall of Wisdom references.[edit]

Perhaps Vivec's Hall of Justice and Hall of Wisdom are respectively references to the locations from the Justice League of America comic books and the He-Man and the Masters of the Universe animated series? The most recent He-Man cartoon aired the same year that Morrowind was released (2002), and how could you NOT look at the name "Hall of Justice" without thinking of the Superfriends/JLA for even a second? With all the other references in this game, I honestly don't think it'd be that far-fetched to see a reference to a superhero comic or a 1980s cartoon franchise thrown into the mix.Bauglir100 (talk) 21:42, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to think so. 'Hall of Justice' is a fairly generic name. Weroj (talk) 21:51, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Any more generic than "Ministry of Truth"? Bauglir100 (talk) 23:12, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
For sure. According to Wikipedia, police headquarters are sometimes called 'Halls of Justice', too, but that etymology doesn't seem very interesting either; it's more like a description of function. If both places appeared in the same animation, the connection would be more compelling, but as far as I'm aware, He-Man and the Justice League are two completely unrelated things. Weroj (talk) 02:02, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
That doesn't cover "Hall of Wisdom", though. How often is THAT name used? Besides, we've got tons of other references located in close proximity to each other based on things that are totally unrelated. They could've just as easily called them the "Ordinator Headquarters" and "Vivec Archives", or something like that, so what are the chances that someone involved in designing Vivec didn't have a little fun with naming the buildings? Again: "Ministry of Truth", anyone? Bauglir100 (talk) 21:20, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Except the Ministry of Truth shares a thematic similarity as well - it's a reference to Orwellian re-education and the idea of thought crime present in the book. The Hall of Justice bears little similarity to the Justice League headquarters, and the Hall of Wisdom library even less to the He-Man location. If the two names appeared in the same piece of media it might be a worthy argument to make based on name alone, but as it stands the two names are too simplistic to be an obvious reference to anything. —Legoless (talk) 23:24, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

() It's also worth noting that the hall of justice and hall of wisdom are actual halls within the Temple Canton. I don't think this is a strong enough connection, and I agree with Weroj that it's most likely just a description of the area's function. Zul do onikaanLaan tinvaak 23:33, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Crassius Curio, corrupt businesspeople, bisexuality and Ancient Rome[edit]

Crassius Curio is, of course, of House Hlaalu - the "business and economics" Dunmer house. And he has a somewhat flamboyantly bisexual side, asking characters of both sexes to undress for him or give him a kiss.

There are a whole lot of references here:

Business / economics: Crassus (Marcus Licinius Crassus) was the richest man in Rome, and got that way by means of business practices which were less than entirely savoury, making his near-namesake totally suited to House Hlaalu in the game. And once Crassus had earned his wealth, he put it to use in forging a political career for himself, bribing his way successively to the praetorship and consulship, then using bribery (sometimes in the form of outright cash, more often in the form of favours to be called in) to further the careers of his supporters - although he was willing to abandon them if they did not play ball: Crassus is thought to have been the paymaster behind the early political career of the revolutionary Sergius Catilina, but abandoned him when Catilina proposed a general cancellation of debts (which, of course, would have included his own huge debt to Crassus) and raised a revolt in support of that policy when it failed in the Senate. Even Crassus's defeat of Spartacus - which made him a certainty for the consulship at the next election - depended not so much on the battle against the horde of ex-slaves, as on the fact that when Spartacus was attempting to flee Italy by sea with the help of a pirate fleet based in Sicily, Crassus simply contacted the pirates and bribed them not to show up.

And in the famous film of "Spartacus", Crassus is portrayed as having a distinctly bisexual side, enough to make advances to his male slave Antoninus (who promptly flees to join Spartacus). This is probably not a reflection of real life, since there is no evidence that the real Crassus ever had any homosexual leanings or was anything other than devoted to the wife who bore him three children.

However, a more well-attested bisexual in Ancient Rome shares Crassius Curio's other name: Gaius Scribonius Curio (The Younger: son of a father of the same name) was widely believed to have had homosexual affairs with Mark Antony (yes, THAT one - Cicero brought up the existing story in one of his speeches against Antony, years later, but as a reference to it having been a scandalous story of Antony's youth) and may have also had one with his cross-dressing friend Publius Clodius. After Clodius was killed in mob violence, Curio married his widow Fulvia... who subsequently, after Curio's death in battle, married Mark Antony. Curio, too, was also financially corrupt: he had originally been, like his father, a supporter of the Optimate party in the Senate (despite most of his friends being Popularists) but converted to Caesar's Popularist party in return for a huge bribe.

And, given that Cicero was well-known as a prude - he wouldn't even repeat the allegations of homosexual behaviour that others made against Julius Caesar, not even when the two were most at loggerheads, and indeed not even after Caesar's death - there must have been a good deal of truth to the story of Antony and Curio, for Cicero to bring it up as a slander intended to kill Antony's career. JLE (talk) 20:47, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't see any intentional references here. The similar names are probably circumstantial, since Imperials have a Roman-inspired naming convention. Bribing your way to the top is a very standard trope, and I really can't see how Crassius Curio's bisexuality has anything to do with historical figures from Ancient Rome. —Legoless (talk) 21:31, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

The Hunting of the Snark[edit]

The “Ghost-Free Papers” contain the following line:

“Hereas the Gateway Inn and all its dark and secret places have been found to be completely free of spooks, boojums, snarks, spectral goats, revenant toiletries, or cannibal vampire anchovies,”

Both boojums and snarks seem to be references to “The Hunting of the Snark”, an old nonsense poem written by English writer Lewis Carroll. — Unsigned comment by UnknownG (talkcontribs) at 23:33 on 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Since the contributor above, in addition to forgetting to sign, neither took time to share links with us to convince us, I have found the Ghost-Free Papers are here. Further the poem can be found online here. —MortenOSlash (talk) 06:41, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Muffin[edit]

I don't believe that the muffin should be classified as an Easter egg on this article. There is nothing special about it: it is identical to a loaf of bread. The character who holds it has absolutely no dialogue about it, and I am not aware of any possible connection to anything notable in real life about a muffin that Bethesda could conceivably be referencing. As far as I can tell, it is just a clutter item. I'm sure you could speculate that it is some inside joke from the company, but, unlike the other inside joke Easter eggs on this page, we have no actual indication of that. I don't think the encyclopedia should bother with this sort of overanalysis.

Almost every single other Easter egg on this page is a direct reference to something in pop culture, or a work of literature, or a user on a forum, or an urban legend, or some other real-world story, or at least something that is clearly supposed to be hidden by default and then found by people. But the muffin is just a muffin. Yes, there is only one, but many items only have a single appearance, and that doesn't mean that all of them are Easter eggs. I don't believe that we should be documenting Easter eggs based on (apparent) absurdity alone; there are a lot of things in TES that are slightly weird, or slightly out of place, or slightly amusing (often by accident), but including all of them would be pointless. There are just too many, and most of them are not really noteworthy to begin with.

I don't even think that things like the "Dagoth Home Decorators?" and "Huge Creatures" and "The Talking Mudcrab Merchant" sections should be on this article either. Sure, there is obviously an intention with each of those two things on Bethesda's part to be funny, but as I said above, Bethesda has a lot of funny moments. If anything, a "Morrowind:Humor" article (or similar) would be appropriate for this sort of content. There is still nothing intrinsically humorous about a piece of bread, so I don't really think it would belong on there either, but it definitely does not belong on a dedicated Easter eggs page.

inb4 semantics: Google's definition of an Easter egg is, "an unexpected or undocumented feature in a piece of computer software or on a DVD, included as a joke or a bonus." This actually isn't a great definition: it does not distinguish regular jokes from OOU jokes. The ending to Monty Python is definitely "unexpected," and "included as a joke," but that doesn't make it an Easter egg per se. It is just the structure of the movie. I think it is important to distinguish something that is intentionally humorous, but not intentionally "hidden," from what most people actually think of as an Easter egg: something that is (usually) humorous, and was definitely placed in a work to be "found" by the audience and/or as an allusion to another work.

As I pointed out above, there isn't anything about the muffin that is inherently indicative of it being an intentionally amusing thing. A dev could easily have thought, "Oh, you know, it doesn't make sense that there aren't any muffins in this game. Let me add one real quick." the same way they could have thought, "Man it would be hilarious if I gave this guy a muffin lol xd." There's nothing remotely concrete that actually points to the either designation. It's a little silly to disregard that fact and instead rely on our own speculation to classify it as an Easter egg. —Atvelonis (talk) 19:02, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I oppose the removal of this entry, though I admit I don't have a great argument for keeping it. It's worth noting that the editor id is ingred_bread_01_UNI3, and the UNI part implies that this item is unique and was never intended to be used more than once. The fact that Gakkenfeld doesn't comment on it is actually in favor of this being a hidden secret because even fewer players would know about it.
I think hidden secrets of this kind are within the realm of Easter eggs, or at least these wiki pages. There's obviously something unusual about the only muffin on Vvardenfell being held by an otherwise generic Orc. —Dillonn241 (talk) 19:58, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
I agree with Dillon. I also think the muffin should be kept because there's not another place to catalogue this. General Crespin (talk) 20:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
The most basic type of Easter Egg relies on the item being deliberately placed there for the purpose of being found, but this isn't an Easter Egg by any definition or interpretation. The muffin is a muffin, a leftover from some incomplete quest. The UNI part of the code actually supports this, as other quest items have UNI and UNIQ in their codes, and the other unique bread item coded specifically because of a quest, has a code of ingred_bread_01_UNI2. There are three places that mention and document the muffin other than here (where it doesn't belong); the Bread page, Gakkenfeld's page, and the Gakkenfeld's location page, so it is not in any danger of not being documented. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 22:13, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
This is an Easter egg per the above quoted definition, and you cannot discount the Google definition to suit your own purposes. Are Atvelonis and Silencer really saying that they expect a generic Orc NPC to be holding the only muffin in the game? We cannot speculate as to the intentions of the developers to include this item as part of an unfinished quest. Per WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS, the muffin's inclusion on this page has been non-contentious since 2006 when the page was created, and as such there is broad consensus for its noteworthiness.
"Almost every single other Easter egg on this page is a direct reference to something in pop culture, or a work of literature, or a user on a forum, or an urban legend, or some other real-world story, or at least something that is clearly supposed to be hidden by default and then found by people. But the muffin is just a muffin." This logic is nonsensical to me and totally flies in the face of the purpose of this page, which is to document developer secrets and oddities. If you don't think a muffin is particularly odd, that's your own subjective opinion and is not authoritative in any way. As such, I don't see how that line of reasoning can serve as the basis for removing this long-standing entry. I've restored it for the time being in circumstances where this is clearly a matter up for debate. —Legoless (talk) 11:25, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
I didn't discount googles definition, I backed it up, and I think you've entirely missed the "included as a joke or a bonus" part of the quote (my "deliberately placed"), which more than "implicitly" shows that the muffin is not an Easter Egg under any definition or interpretation. Everything about the muffin that we know for a fact should lead you to the conclusion that it is an unused leftover item from a cut quest. Its code is identical in naming to another bread piece that is a quest item, and UNI at the end of the code is used in many other quest items (other quest items do not have UNI, and I don't see any UNI tagged items that are not involved in quests). Yes, we bloody well can speculate as to whether this item is a leftover quest item, because the alternative is to speculate that it is not a leftover quest item, so stop applying double-standards because just about every egg is based on speculation. We are not expecting that the generic Orc NPC should be holding the only muffin in the game, because it is the only muffin in the game; I have no idea what question you are trying to generate by that statement, or what you are implying by our imagined expectation of something that is already a fact. I said nothing about the muffin not being odd, because it is so, being the only one in the game. However, oddities are not eggs, sometimes they are just oddities, and sometimes they are they leftover bits of a quest that never got past someone renaming a piece of bread in preparation. Easter Egg pages do not and and never have been used for the purpose of documenting oddities, they are, unsurprisingly, there to document Easter Eggs. Oddities are documented where they are found, be that a location page, an NPC page, an item page, or a quest page. This item was documented on three but now only two, the item page, and the NPC page (the location page it was documented on only documented it because it was an "egg" which of course should not be mentioned). The two pages where it is documented make no mention of it being an Easter Egg page, and should you have the decency to read the Bread page before responding, it lays out in quite clear comparison, how rediculous it is to keep this non-egg documented here, because it is not an egg. The question has been asked, how is the muffin an Easter Egg. If you cannot answer how the muffin is an Easter Egg, then it is not an Easter Egg and should be removed with all the haste in which you defended the inclusion of said non-egg. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 13:01, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
So I suppose you also oppose the inclusion of Charles the Plant on this page? An Orc holding a muffin is just as ridiculous as a plant named Charles; calling it a joke might be a stretch, but it's clearly an Easter egg. To quote the article itself, the muffin "[has] been clearly hidden from the player and [is] unusual with regards to [its] surroundings". This proposed removal after 12 years of uncontested inclusion is groundless. —Legoless (talk) 21:10, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
If this were proposed as an egg today I'd most likely not support it without some kind of evidence that it's meant to be a joke or reference to something, rather than some sort of loose end the devs left in. It does seem more appropriate to note it in the NPC and place page. Charles the Plant has an accepted reference, this muffin doesn't. --Xyzzy Talk 01:28, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

() Without a single bit speculation as to how the muffin is an Easter Egg, a prerequisite for being listed on the Easter Eggs page, it is removed. If anyone wants to re-add it they can propose it as an Easter Egg and go through the normal process, something which is likely to fail because every shred of evidence proves it is nothing more than a leftover piece of code. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 19:38, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

I do agree with Atvelonis, Silencer, and Xyzzy here. The muffin is nothing more than a leftover from a cut quest. Charles the Plant should be on the list due to completely different criteria, because that one is a pop-culture reference unrelated to TES ("Chuck the Plant" from LucasArts). --Ilaro (talk) 23:08, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Since this has turned into a bit of an edit war, I'll side with Silencer as well. I don't have a strong opinion about it, but it seems a bit counterproductive to be wasting this much of everyone's time on a muffin. I think Xyzzy is right that if we were considering it for the first time today, it wouldn't stand up due to the cut quest item aspect. —Dillonn241 (talk) 23:20, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Death of a Taxman[edit]

I'd say that Death of a Taxman is a clear reference to Death of a Salesman. --78.30.0.127 00:30, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree based on the title, though I have no idea if anything else matches up. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about it can write an entry. —Dillonn241 (talk) 22:30, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
I quickly read through the descriptions of the quest and the play, and see no similarities whatsoever other than the name. --Xyzzy Talk 05:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)