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Skyrim talk:Alchemy/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Alchemy discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Alchemy Utilities

Since most utilities available on a quick google search are paid or for phones or web apps that demand the user to be online, I think its a good idea to add a downloadable open source alternative to the main alchemy page. The option I know is this one, for windows:

I think we'd especially want to highlight those that don't require you to pay or be online or what have you. Does anybody have any objections if I add this? (Tuliomir: feel free to "bump" this discussion in a couple of days if I haven't added it, or leave me a note on my talk page.) – Robin Hood↝talk 22:09, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Breaking the Game with Alchemy (and maybe a bit of Enchanting)

A few of us are doing a bit of work on weapon enchantments over on the Enchanting Effects talk page. I took a look at the armor enchants. Did you know that all the Fortify Skill enchantments are Restoration abilities? Our main focus is trying to reduce the charge cost on weapons, but reducing the magicka cost on armor abilities isn't needed. Interestingly enough, potions increase the effectiveness of Restoration abilities, not reduce the cost.

So, here's what you need:

What to do:

  1. Put on all your Alchemy apparel.
  2. Step up to the alchemy table.
  3. Make a Fortify Restoration potion.
  4. Step away from the alchemy table.
  5. Enter the items menu.
  6. Drink the Fortify Restoration potion.
  7. Unequip your Alchemy apparel.
  8. Re-equip your Alchemy apparel. (Notice a difference?)
  9. Exit the items menu.
  10. Repeat from step 2.

So you can make some ridiculously overpowered Fortify Restoration potions. When you get tired of the above loop, make some Fortify Smithing and Fortify Enchanting potions instead. With the Fortify Enchanting potions, in addition to whatever you want to enchant, you could also make some Fortify Smithing apparel and some stronger Fortify Alchemy apparel. Note that you need no skill or perks in Smithing to be able to make use of this.

So while there isn't any Fortify Alchemy potion, you can still get a very similar effect with Fortify Restoration and Fortify Alchemy equipment. --Fluff 03:34, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

So what's the ultimate loop? Is it like this?

  1. Wear a Fortify Alchemy set.
  2. Brew and drink Fortify Restoration potions and take off/put on your Alchemy set until fixed point is reached (this loop is probably cheaper to iterate than the enchanting loop, so do it inside).
  3. Brew and drink a Fortify Enchanting potion.
  4. Enchant a better Alchemy Set.
  5. Repeat the above until fixed point is reached.
  6. Brew a Fortify Smithing potion, and two Fortify Enchanting and Fortify Restoration potions.
  7. Drink a Fortify Enchanting potion.
  8. Enchant a Smithing set.
  9. Wear the Smithing set, and drink the Fortify Smithing potion and the Fortify Restoration potion.
  10. Smith whatever you want.
  11. Drink the other Fortify Enchanting and Fortify Restoration potions and enchant your smithed equipment.

--Evil4Zerggin 06:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

I don’t know about breaking the game, but I think I may have broken Alchemy. I use a PS3. Using the Alchemy/Restoration loop I took the numbers up into the 7 and 8 digits. Then I created enchanted alchemy tools at ludicrously high levels and proceeded to make some potions that were off the chart, particularly fortify smithing and fortify alchemy.
So after fooling around with my super–armor, super-weapons and super-enchantments I either put the crazy items on my followers or sold them and went on my merry way. By the way, selling a million dollar dagger even when the merchant can only pay you 500 really boosts your speech skill.
After a few more quests I decided I needed to whip up another batch of my favorite potions. Unfortunately I can no longer mix a potion that’s worth anything. The best enchanting potion I can make is +1%. The best Restoration I can make is +4%. When I equip a normal set of enchanted tools (+16% to +25%) the numbers do not change. Taking Restoration potions makes no difference.
My Alchemy is at 100 out of 101 which seems like it might be part of the problem. I took all the perks up to “purity”. There's just no cure for these Alchemy blues. The “Ludicrous Alchemy Tools” still work at ludicrously high levels, but honestly I don’t want to enchant weapons that do 60,000 shock points or steal a person’s soul even if they live another 20 years.
I was wondering if destroying my ludicrous tools might fix the problem, but I’m not sure how I would even go about that, is there a way to destroy items without console commands?
Redvideo 21:32, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
the exact same thing happened to me. Just thought I'd play around with the restoration loop too see what it would be like to have god-like gear. So I created some and now alchemy, enchanting and smithing are all broken. I have 100 in each and all the perks and can't upgrade any weapon or armor beyond "fine". And not potions above 4%. Enchanting also sucks. If I try to improve a weapon that is at least fine, I get a error that says I'm not high enough level to improve it. But there is no higher level.
I did dump all the god gear I made in a barrel then waited for it to despawn but the game (or at least this character) is broken. He's a level 54. He can fight, he just can't craft anything worth having. — Unsigned comment by Mm CAINE (talk • contribs) at 01:48 on 19 April 2012

Editing External Links / Tools

UESPWiki:Community_Portal#Alchemy_Applications is a non existent section, but people who edit the "tools" section are advised to go there and forbidden from adding any links until they do.
As a result, you are literally telling people who work on alchemy tools (probably the same people who'd be willing to work on the alchemy portion of this wiki) to get lost. No surprise they've gone elsewhere... (submitted w/o login, then edited) SW 19:16, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the report. I think, rather than linking to the old discussion, it's probably better if we ask people to propose their additions on the talk page first. I'll make that change. – Robin Hood↝talk 07:13, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Skill Category

Every source that I've found indicates that the Alchemy skill belongs to the Stealth category. However a quick examination of the ActorValueInfo dialogue shows a drop down list labeled "Skill category" with Magic selected, rather than Stealth. What gives? —Vinifera7 03:47, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

it was decided that in order to be consistent with the Guardian Stone, alchemy would have to be listed here as a stealth skill. --A CavemanTalk 03:53, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Application "Skyrim Alchemy Free" for Android

Hi, Should I register to edit? I wish that you add this application to the "Phone Apps" section:

Features:

  1. Calculates all recipes that can be done with a set of ingredients. Even the 20,350 possible combinations with all ingredients.
  2. Allows you to manage various character status. Remembers current skills, selected perks and equipment of the character. These values ​​influence the results of alchemy.
  3. The value, magnitude and duration of effects in the recipes is calculated taking into account the character status. Thus the results are identical to those obtained in the game.
  4. It takes into account the "special" ingredients that multiply (sometimes x100) the value, the magnitude and duration of certain effects.
  5. Every character status allows easy storage of ingredients data: the amount and effects that has been already discovered in the game.
  6. You can use these data in searches to find recipes possible with your inventory, or recipes with whom discover more new effects.
  7. When you decide to make a recipe in the game, you can press a button to update the discovered effects and number of ingredients. There is no need to manually update the character status in the application.
  8. You can do quick searches by simply selecting ingredients from the list. Needless to set the character status, or inventory, or discovered effects.

Thanks in advance — Unsigned comment by 87.223.62.254 (talk) at 16:13 on 29 March 2012

It's not necessary to register to edit, though it's always nicer to see a name on a post than a bunch of numbers. And speaking of which, you should sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your post, just so we know who's posting what. I wish I could comment more on the rest of this, but I think I'm the last person on Earth to not have a cell phone of any kind, much less an Android. :) – Robin Hood↝talk 16:31, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
hello again,
I added the link to the "Phone Apps" section in Alchemy page, but has disappeared. Does RobinHood have to add it? — Unsigned comment by 87.223.62.254 (talk) at 19:16 on 29 March 2012‎
Hi! I was the one who removed the link. As per the instructions on the page:
<!-- PLEASE DO NOT ADD ANY MORE LINKS TO THIS SECTION WITHOUT DISCUSSION ON THE TALK PAGE.--!>
...there needs to be a discussion about whether or not your link should be added before it is put on the page. Just be patient--sooner or later some people will chime in and they're reach a consensus one way or another :). eshetalk 19:26, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Sorry. English is not my native language, did not understand the procedure. I thought the text above and robin's response was sufficient. I apologize for any inconvenience caused to you.(87.223.62.254 20:13, 29 March 2012 (UTC))
The original discussion on the community page about linking external apps has been archived by now, but I remember the comment being made that one app per platform would be acceptable. Since we don't yet have an android app listed, I would be in favor of adding this one.
Although, I do have a problem with giant FREE in caps - it makes the link seem more like an advertisement. I'd say add the link, for sure, but tone down the CAPS. Or just leave it out to follow the format of the other apps, one of which is free of charge and the other is a dollar. That's just my opinion. Have fun. --A CavemanTalk 14:20, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Ok, so I'll wait. I changed the CAPS. Thank you very much. (87.223.62.254 15:28, 30 March 2012 (UTC))
You're right, we had said that, which makes this probably a good choice. We don't want to specifically limit it to one, though. If there's something significant that distinguishes an app (like the open-source one I added a few days ago), there can be more than one per platform. – Robin Hood↝talk 17:58, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

(←) I believe that this app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=skyrim.alchemy.ingredients&hl=en would be helpful as well to be listed, very useful in the discovery of effects, clearing those pesky unknowns. Saarebas 07:12, 15 November 2012‎

We already have a list on the page in this section which identifies the quickest way to discover effects, so if this is the argument for adding this one to the page, I don't think it's needed. — ABCface◥ 13:50, 15 November 2012 (GMT)

Online Alchemy Tool - http://skyrim.alchemista.net

I tried listing this tool's link before, but it was removed. I see new tool link(s) have been added since then, so I;d like to re-submit mine. It offers many (and lacks a few) features some others do not, has been around long enough to prove stable, and continues to undergo improvement. Any reason it should not be listed? If its a matter of "to many links", there should be some way of the community deciding what new links to add / what old ones to remove, so that we don't just have the "first in win" case, or some sort of hidden process where some editors are allowed to add links and others are not (due to patience in edit wars, personality, past edits, whatever). SW 12:54, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I believe that you should add your link again and it is possible that it had a virus which I believe would cause it to be taken down.2dum2live 13:11, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Removed tip

I removed this from the tips section.

"Alternatively, saving and reloading will replenish a store's stock."

It only works if you kill the store npc then reload the save. Which some people are against doing. Although it could easily be edited and put back.

technically, you don't have to kill the store owner, just attack him to begin combat, then reload - but it is definitely an exploit which can be documented elsewhere but not here I think. --A CavemanTalk 03:12, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
What platform are you guys playing on? On the PC, saving, exiting, and reloading (as opposed to just saving and reloading as stated in the tip) will replenish a store's stock and reset the merchant's gold amount. It's possible that there's some bug leftover from this being an older game when I started it (1.3 Patch, I think?), but that seems unlikely. I'll start a new game tonight and see if it makes any difference, though obviously, it'll take a while to get anywhere useful to test. – Robin Hood↝talk 07:18, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
on Xbox 360; you must save, attack the store owner, then reload. — Unsigned comment by Acaveman (talk • contribs) at 10:05 on 19 April 2012
Could be the tip is Xbox360 specific then. On the PC, there's no need to attack the store owner. But save and reload alone won't work, you have to save, quit, reload.
--DayDreamer 01:44, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Console specific? For PS3 you need to save then you must kill the trader (or down an essential to their knees) and then reload the save. If you don't do this then they have the same inventory when reloading the game. The Silencer has spokenTalk 01:49, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

(←) It's rare, but we've seen a few cases of console- or PC-specific behaviour in Oblivion before, so I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in Skyrim too on occasion. In this case, though, the behaviour on the PC appears to be the same, but the PC may have one or more added quirks. This is based on a few quick tests, so may not be 100%, but it's what appears to be the case, anyway:

  • Save, do nothing else, reload: no change.
  • Save, buy stuff, reload: anything you bought the first time disappears, merchant's available gold goes up out of proportion to what you bought. Subsequent reloads, even after buying other stuff, behave the same as the first, they do not alter the inventory or gold in any way.
  • Save, sell stuff, reload: You keep your stuff, the merchant doesn't get it. Stock does not reset. Gold will be very low on reload, though not always exactly the same as you left them with.
  • Save, quit, reload: stock and gold reset. Gold may be slightly altered in repeated between tries, but sometimes it's stable no matter what. Not sure if this has something to do with stock randomization for some merchants or if it's part of the obvious bugginess here.
  • Save, kill merchant, reload: stock and gold reset as they would on a quit and reload. – Robin Hood↝talk 03:21, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Somehow your update completly slipped past me. The idea behind the tip is that you buy what you want sell your unneeded items to get the gold back, and restock the merchant before the 48 hours pass, and repeat. It's not restock until they have what you want, its restock to get more items and gold prematurely. The Silencer has spokenTalk 18:46, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
It sounds to me like the tip is valid on all platforms, since killing the merchant works on the PC just as well as on the Xbox/PS3, so I'd suggest we put it back in with that change. Quitting the game in-between also works on the PC, but if that's not universal, it should be mentioned as a secondary note, if at all, I'd say. – Robin Hood↝talk 21:36, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Renaming Created Potions/Poisens

While you are able to rename enchanted items, I am having a hard time finding how to rename a potion/poisen. Is this a glitch, and they have yet to patch it, or have they left this ability out of Skyrim altogether? (The Crispy Cheetah 01:33, 28 May 2012 (UTC))

They left it out of the game. Vely►Talk►Email 14:17, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Ah OK thank...I suppose with the pc version you can mod it....(The Crispy Cheetah 19:11, 28 May 2012 (UTC))
One more thing... is it possible to mix Nightshade and Moon Sugar together? XD Yeah I want to try and make Skooma in game... just for kicks XD (The Crispy Cheetah 21:25, 28 May 2012 (UTC))
No, they do not share any effects.
You can chek out this page for some roleplaying ideas; I know I've seen at least one on the list regarding drugs or skooma. Vely►Talk►Email 21:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Ah thank you! Honestly, I don't do drugs but my character being Khajiit, I like to act the part ^^ (The Crispy Cheetah 21:40, 28 May 2012 (UTC))

Potion Strength Formula

Wouldn't it be helpful to add the formula for how the game determines potion strength? There is a rough formula for enchanting I know, so it would be beneficial to figure one out for alchemy. If I figure a reliable one out, I will post it here but I'm not sure of the methodology used to determine formulas from the game. All I can do is play around in excel with some test values.206.255.16.26 22:24, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

It's listed on the Alchemy Effects page. --Liudeius 21:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Poisoning Weapons

I can't find an article that has any info about poisoning your weapons. Does anybody know where I can find this? I specifically want to know if you can poison your arrows. --Xyzzy 20:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

You cannot. What you actually poison is the bow, and the poison takes effect on the next shot fired regardless of arrow used (or next two shots fired if you have the appropriate perk). QuillanTalk 19:57, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Interesting. Is this info already part of an existing article, or does it need to be added somewhere? --XyzzyTalk 20:21, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Another online alchemy lab

I would like to this free web tool to the list, it lets you save your ingredients and potions. Does anybody have any objections? — Unsigned comment by Gara (talk • contribs) at 10:24 on July 10, 2012

It's probably better to ask for approval rather than objections, and please wait for such approval and consensus before re-adding the information to the page. I do not think that this one is necessary or particularly special among the others, but then again, I do not use these calculators. Vely►Talk►Email 15:03, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
It's user friendly and more complete than some of the others. I would support it's inclusion. The Silencer speaksTalk 15:37, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm not really used to wiki work flow, my mistake. Can I add it to the list?
About what it's special among the others... a lot of things actually: it can filter by desired effects, calculates exact values and magnitude (I found some profitable potions this way that I didn't found elsewhere) based on your skill and perks, and let's you save your favorite recipes, useful if you want to keep and replenish an arsenal of the most useful ones. It's also built using a responsive style-sheet, so it should remain usable even from tablets and phones. After all I did this recently because I wasn't happy with the others and I tried to build something that suited my needs. --Gara 20:38, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to wait for at least one more person to express a positive opinion on it before it's added, so that there's some consensus on it. Patience. Vely►Talk►Email 20:46, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
After a complete test suite I can confirm that the tool now works with Dawnguard ingredients with exact values and magnitudes. I can also confirm that Yellow Mountain Flower Fortify Restoration has augmented magnitude (x1.25). In case the link got placed on the page, how should I highlight the fact that it consider Dawnguard ingredients, not to be to emphatic? --Gara 08:27, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

(←) I definitely think this is worth adding to the page, as it's the only one out there that I know of that has been updated with the Dawnguard ingredients. As for emphasizing that aspect of it, I think something like this would work:

It's short, simple, and not overly emphasized, plus it is consistent with the rest of the list, since the only other one with a 'note' has it in parentheses. If no one opposes, I think this should be added to the page within the next day, since there's more than just one person in support. ABCface◥ 14:15, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and added it, feel free to tweak the note/description as I just combined the Dawnguard note with what was placed there originally. ABCface◥ 23:00, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Alchemy Calculators with Dawnguard

Are there any online alchemy calculators that have Dawnguard ingredients? Because all the ones linked on the main page don't have the new ingredients added by Dawnguard. Swk3000 20:04, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I have updated Skyrim Alchemy Lab with Dawnguard ingredients. I hadn't been able to test if the value and magnitude calculation are exact, but since I've based the new ingredients on the same data from Creation Kit I would be surprised if they aren't. Anyway if anyone want to help with some test I would be really glad. --Gara 11:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

"Leveling Method" Section

Does anybody see a good reason to leave that section in the article? At least to me, it seems like it's just repeating the concepts outlines in the "Gaining Skill XP" section, just spelling it out more. – Robin Hood↝talk 06:36, 25 September 2012 (GMT)

The Leveling Methods section does condense the information in the Gaining Skill XP section down to a few sentences for power-levelers, plus adds a little bit more. It is probably useful to some people because of this. --Xyzzy Talk 23:28, 25 September 2012 (GMT)


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