Oblivion talk:Paradise/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Paradise discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Ayleid Coffer

There's an ayleid coffer with what was for me a +8 willpower ring and a about 450 gold in the shallow water along on coast going east from the guy that the inhabitants had trapped. Don't know if it's "boss level" or not but I don't see it mentioned 01:10, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Waiting for Mankar to finnish his speech

I noticed it said "After Mankar finnishes his speech, you will get a chance to attack". Well, I for one am not a fan of his annoying voice so I just walked up to him during the speech and hit him twice before he died with no trouble from his children. Was this supposed to happen or am I just a really kickass fighter?

It more depends on what type of weapon you were using. It had to have been powerful, due to Mankar's robe enchantments, one of which is reflect damage, i believe. No, you don't have to wait for him to finish his speech to attack, although I prefer to kill his kids over and over again to keep getting their magical items, without any complaints from him.

Crash as I begin the Mankar Camoran fight

Hi, I just registered after using this website for a long time. It has helped me so much, now I'm hoping the community can help me... Because I am in dire need of assistance. As I am about to begin the fight with Mankar Camoran and the other Mythic Dawn members there... My game crashes... Every time! I have not found a solution. I looked all over the official elder scrolls forum and other places.

When I arrive at the location, everything seems fine. Mankar Camoran begins to blab on about the things he normally says, the Mythic Dawn members standing either side as usual. When It's time for me to fight the Mythic Dawn members... My game crashes to the desktop!

This is the first game stopping bug I have had.

I apologize if this is not the right place to ask for help. But I didn't know where else to go. — Unsigned comment by Hamish3000 (talkcontribs)

One suggestion is to check your Oblivion DVD. If it becomes badly scratched, then the game will crash when it tries to access the data on that part of the disk.
Other than that, it would be useful to know whether you're playing on PC or Xbox... since you said crash to the desktop, I'm guessing PC, but I'm not sure. --NepheleTalk 13:19, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the suggestions. I am playing on the PC. My Oblivion DVD is in perfect condition. I am not using any kind of No-CD. Hamish3000 06:05, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Now the game seems to be crashing at random... I tried it just before and it actually let me fight. But then, as Mankar Camoran was about to die, my game crashed again! Then I tried again, it crashed as I was about to fight the 2 Mythic Dawn members. Tried again, it crashed as I killed one of Mythic Dawn members... I'm going to try a few more times. Hamish3000 06:35, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

After many tries I have finally killed Mankar Camoran. Everything went fine after finally killing him. I'm now waiting for my armor. I still don't know what caused my game to keep crashing like it did. I guess it will remain a mystery. Thank you for your reply, Nephele. Hamish3000 07:37, 19 April 2007 (EDT)


I have a screen shot of the moment before you fight him. Since Endareth is working on the standardization I thought it would be better to ask your opinion of whether having a screenshot is a good idea or not. --Jenic 18:07, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

I think the screenshot'd be pretty cool to post, but dunno about copyright issues there. As to Camoran's discourse on the nature of the Daedra, personally I think they're as revelatory about the nature of Tamriel as Dagoth Ur's ramblings were to the Tribunal. Especially b/c Akatosh!Martin kicked Mehrunes Dagon's ass. --Padthai 17:19, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

Screenshots are generally fine copyright-wise. However see Oblivion Talk:Oblivion for current issues with images on the site. If you're storing it elsewhere and just displaying it at the bottom of the quest page, I'm sure it'd be fine. Endareth 21:05, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

Missing Maps

The map currently being shown on the page is a pretty minimal subsection of the maps for Paradise. The external area is much larger than that shown on the map; the map only shows the part on top of the final mountain, but not any of the area that you enter into and must initially explore. Also there are multiple interior areas that are missing (Lair of Anaxes, Flooded Grotto, Forbidden Grotto (2 sections), and Carac Agailalor). --Nephele 01:39, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Okay, I saw that larger map area, but a conversation with Booyah Boy led me to believe that most of that area was inaccessible. If it is accessible, then the map for this world will be VERY large, and hard to pin borders on. (It seems to have no discernable outer boundary.) Though that could explain why there are two rows of invisible walls and not just one. The yellow one keeps you off the mountain top, and the green one keeps you on. I'll look at this again later. As for interior cells, just give me names, I've got the maps already, just don't know which ones they are necessarily. --TheRealLurlock 09:38, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
I haven't fully explored the external world so I can't say for sure just how large it is. It seems to be made up of a few large islands, although identifying the shoreline is probably going to be difficult in the CS. When I swam away from the islands in one direction I was stopped by the "You can not go that way. Turn back" message that you get at the borders of Tamriel. Most players probably aren't aware of the invisible walls, because there's a pretty steep cliff on all sides that acts as a barrier; you get from the main part of the exterior world to the part that's shown by going through the various caves (grottos). The interior areas that I know of are:
  • ParadiseAnaxesCave (Lair of Anaxes)
  • ParadiseGrotto01 (The Flooded Grotto)
  • ParadiseGrotto02 (The Forbidden Grotto)
  • ParadiseGrotto03 (The Forbidden Grotto)
  • ParadiseCamoranFortress (Carac Agaialor)
I can also see in the CS an area identified as ParadiseGrotto04OLD; I'm guessing that's not being used, but I'm not absolutely sure. I was just doing a quick run through last night to see what was coming up (I still need to go back and clean up the Defense of Bruma and Great Gate pages, including a full exploration of the Great Gate world); I probably won't be fully exploring Paradise until a couple days from now. --Nephele 11:51, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
The map does not appear to include the small island on the Northeast of Paradise which is home to the Spectral Mudcrab and an Ayleid Coffer. 10:51, 24 May 2008 (EDT)DarthShrute


I am also stuck in this scene, exactly as described below. (xbox 360 version) As i arrive at the palace i follow the children to the throne and then mankar does not arrive. I can fully interact with his children, but they keep re appearing and mankar does not...... please help , the auto save is in the palace as i arrived and i last saved when the doors where sealed so i am truly stuck!! — Unsigned comment by (talk)

I'm stuck on this quest in the very last part. After going through all of the paradise, Mankar didn't show up. His kids were there, but he wasn't. I think this has something to do with the strange fact that Mankar still stood next to the Dragon Shrine after killing everybody there, and afterwards I could find him in Cloud Ruler Temple next to the fireplace. He was completely unkillable, like The King of Worms, but I could talk to him. He was still there when I entered the Paradise, Although now he said a strange text: "enter the high hall of judgement". he didn't actually said this, but I could read the subtitles. after he said this, the conversation quitted. It also appaered he was fixed on his place. I haven't found a sollution for this yet, and I just hope I don'thave to reload from Dagon Shrine.

I tried to fix the problem by, before opening the gate to paradise, leaving and come back later. This didn't worked, even when I tried to get back to Dagon Shrine where I first found him, but it was locked.

Well, I know this is the last bit of advice that you want to hear, but I think you have to reload a save game from before you did the Dagon Shrine quest. During that quest, Mankar is supposed to go through the portal to Paradise. The only way I can see what you're describing happen is if he did not go through the portal. I don't really see how that would happen on the Xbox, especially since there are a couple different places in the scripts where he is told to go through the portal, but it's the only explanation I can see. And if he doesn't go through the Dagon Shrine portal, he can't get to paradise... his instructions tell him to go through that specific portal.
I'm guessing the text you saw is actually "Come into the High Hall of Judgment. Let us test ourselves against one another once and for all." Took me a while to figure out what text you could be referring to, especially since the game misspells judgement here.
Can you remember anything strange that you did during the Dagon Shrine quest? Did you somehow get through the whole sequence inside the shrine unusually quickly, perhaps doing everything before Mankar had finished his speech? Whatever happened to you definitely does not seem to be a common problem, but it would be useful to be able to document what happened. --Nephele 11:54, 5 March 2007 (EST)

Thanks for the help, but I'm not sure if I still have a save game from before Dagon Shrine. I think I'll just caal it a day and complete the rest of the game. The thing is, I did the Dagon Shrine twice because I did something wrong in there, and the first time Mankar just left.

Where is that text supposed to be? It's quite weird because Mankar just greeted me like a normal NPC, but only looked at me when I activated him.

I went back and tried to pickpocket Mankar, but this just stated the message as always. The idea of opening the portal to paradise whas that Mankar could go through this one instead of the Dagon Shrine one. — Unsigned comment by (talk)

No, I don't think that he's able to recognize that Martin's portal leads to paradise. His instructions tell him to go to the Dagon Shrine portal and activate it (i.e., the instructions don't actually tell him to try to go to Paradise, but just tell him to go the door that he's expected to use). --Nephele 20:38, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Edit from Rqsb: Well I had all bugs possible of the game and I always got unstuck somehow, you just have to find the way to continue the bugged script I had the problem with stuck Mankar Camoran and I managed to fix it, if anyone still needs help. Since the script is totally bugged, get ready to use some cheats and break the storyline ... Firstofall you have to reach Mankar's Palace, and meet his sons. There, open the console by typing ² (the key situated on the left from the & key) Type player.coc BrumaCastleGreatHall You will suddenly get teleported in Brumas castle, from there get to the Cloud Ruler Temple As you can guess, Mankar Camoran is still here, and he begins a speech Listen to him and wait he ends it, then you cannot kill him, unhopefully he's invulnerable to any attack ... Open the console again, then click on him and type kill This will instantly kill Mankar Camoran and complete the quest Enjoy the loots :) Mankar Camoran's robes can be sold for 12 000 gold :) Then, you can continue the story normally. I hope this will help someone, if it is still necessary :)

By the way, expect your game to crash many times ... I advice you to save the game at least before you get in Mankar Camoran's palace and you meet his sons, if will never bug from there

Edit from Gule Orm: PC Game of the year edition. Same problem, Mankar Camoran appear passive in Cloud Ruler Temple. Remember leaving him standing in Dagon Shrine, invulnerable. Nobody on throne in Carac Agaialor. Reloading from Dagon Shrine because of a bug? No, will try above.

I have witnesed a glitch after killing Mankar Camoran. After returning to Cloud Ruler temple, the portal was gone but the surrounding didn't dissapear. I have no idea what made that happen.

Also stuck because of a bug

I have a very annoying bug here: the portal to Camoran's Palace just won't appear! I did everything I had to do, but when Martin uses his spell... Nothing happens. Is there a way to summon the teleporter with the console or teleporting to Camoran's Palace with the console?

This is happenig to me as well. The portal he was supposed to take earlier in the quest also did not appear, so I don't know what is going on with those portals but they aren't working for me. — Unsigned comment by (talk)
This is also happening to me. I did notice though that everything is in place for the ritual except the armor that he was supposed to get the blood from and the quest to retrieve it was completed. Any help with finding a workaround for this would be greatly appreciated.
Does someone already figured how to fix this problem yet? (27-07-2009)

I have the same problem. (11-30-09)

Your savegames have been corrupted. It probably won't happen with the next character you play the main quest with. But fortunately we have console commands to salvage your current game!

CODE Player.MoveTo 0003C38D

This command will teleport you to the spot the portal teleports you to when it is functioning, so you won't miss any of the game. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 4 December 2009

Can Eldamil Survive?

I killed all of the Camorans multiple times, but whenever I kill them all, he dies, even if he is at full health :( oh well. Has anyone been able to keep him alive?

I'm not sure what you mean by "keep him alive", but I'm assuming you're asking if he can survive the destruction of Paradise and escape back to Tamriel with you. The answer, simply, is almost definitely no.
The Paradise itself is a dimension bound to Mankar Camoran, and all those within it are bound to him either through his associations with Daedric forces (Mehrunes Dagon) or through associations as Mythic Dawn cultists, in the case of Eldamil and all the other Mythic Dawn and Ascended Immortals in the Garden and Grotto. Once Mankar is killed and his Paradise crumbles, all those who were bound in service to him are "released" from their immortal slavery, but as they were killed in service to him in the mortal realm, they can't exactly revive there and live on as mortals in Tamriel again.
It's unfortunate, since what little of Eldamil I experienced made me like him a bit as a character, but he does need to atone for his trafficking with the forces of Dagon. :p --Skogul 17:38, 18 September 2007 (EDT)
As one of the immortal female prisoners whimpers as you lower her into the molten lava pool: "I deserve it, all of it..." Plus, no one who has been immortalized is enjoying their time in Paradise. Perhaps they'll all move on to a better place? (not sure if the ES lore mentions anything on an afterlife. — Unsigned comment by (talk)
All the good people (and possibly evil as well) Go to Atherius (heaven)--Drake3555 19:40, 15 June 2008 (EDT)


I found a "bug" where I go to meet Eldamil (the Altmer who helps you). When I went to the next room, I kept finding him dead on the ground, making the quest impossible to complete (hmmm ironic since he says in conversation that he is immortal). After much trial and error, I found the best way to make it to the next part of the quest was to NOT get into the cage and instead kill the Dremora that comes to check up on Eldamil. This way Eldamil will slowly walk to the next grotto, allowing one to run ahead and kill anything that would have killed him and clear a path.

I moved this because it wasn't really relevant to the section i was in, also Eldamil respawns regularly so chacnes are you would see him alive later on. Volanaro 04:37, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Vampires in Paradise

Since no one in my travels has ever raised an issue with this, am I safe to assume that Vampire players will not suffer Sun Damage here, despite the fact that Paradise in bathed in perpetual dawn? —Dark Spark 02:58, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

You are absolutely right. Vampire players will not suffer Sun Damage here. --Mankar CamoranTCE 15:53, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
Ah, thank you. Not knowing the answer to this was the stumbling block towards one small addition I sought to include into the article. —Dark Spark 01:16, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
You are welcome and thanks for adding it to the article. --Mankar CamoranTCE 07:24, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

The Second Heir?. . . .

I'm not that sure of how this is possible but Mankar wears the amulet of kings and is shown that he wears it when you loot his body to take it. considering only the heir can wear the amulet, is Mankar the .. other heir?

That's already mentioned on his page and there are more thoughts on the subject here. –RpehTCE 05:27, 30 April 2008 (EDT)


If you are a Dunmer, and you wear the Bands of the Chosen, would that just be like taking your natural 75% fire resistance and dropping it down to 25%? Seems to make sense.--Imperial Scum 17:00, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

I'd guess so but that's a Good Question that could use confirmation in this specific case. –RpehTCE 17:10, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
I'm playing through as a Dunmer and on my active effects it says resistance to fire 75 and weakness to fire 50 so yes it is like dropping your resistance down to 25 Fromaginator 21:57, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Kill Anaxes without freeing him

Not an important bug (is it a bug?) but i thought i'd mention it for anyone who wants to kill the Xivilai without a difficult battle. If you climb the left log holding the rock in place, there is a small space above the rock where the Xivilai is visible. It is possible to cast spells on it and kill it without releasing it. The quest will still register that you killed Anaxes, however if you then remove the logs, the Quest updates again saying you freed him. When you speak with Kathutet afterwards, he will be angered and attack. 09:38, 22 May 2008 (EDT)DarthShrute

Question on Followers

Will followers follow you into Paradise? And will they leave with you? Also, if you cast a custom command spell at Ruma, Raven, or Eldamil will they follow you out when Paradise is destroyed? --Xyntfos 23:16, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

Honorable thing to do with Kathutet

Now I know it doesn't matter to some, but what's the good honorable thing to do? After having finally talked to a Dremora, they don't seem like jerks, but strict honorable warriors. Is fighting honorable or freeing the Xivilai since both guys are bad guys. (Mythic Dawn and Daedra)

I reckon fighting the Demora would be more honourable. --Prince of Madness 00:21, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Then again, seeing to it that the Mythic Dawn members in the Garden continue to suffer for their actions may be construed as the right thing to do. Kathutet's loyalties are to Dagon, not Camoran, and the Dremora probably see the Mythic Dawn as inconvenient allies. Hence they have no problem putting the thumbscrews to the cultists. —Dark Spark 16:23, 9 August 2008 (EDT)


Should we redo the existing map as though it were an indoor map, perhaps? The one that's there is obviously from the Construction Set and isn't very useful in terms of indicating the various points of interest. (And if so, for those of you who've done those, how are those captured? Cut & pasted screen grabs?) --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 19:58, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

That is sort of the plan. Or at least, there have been discussions about redoing the Oblivion World maps, and adding information similar to the indoor maps to those. So it would make sense to do it for Paradise, too. And in fact Paradise needs a new map more badly than any of the Oblivion World maps, because the existing one covers so little of the territory.
The indoor maps (and the exterior maps shown on each of the dungeon pages) were created from screenshots. Followed by lots of cutting and pasting. Especially for a map the size of Paradise, it's going to take a bit of work to put it together. But if you're interested, by all means go for it. Having the map in place will help provide me with some impetus to create the overlays needed to then add locations of interest to the map. --NepheleTalk 22:38, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
I was afraid you were gonna tell me that was how it was done, but not surprised. Earlier, I went over the area step-by-step, so the hardest part is done, I think...I'll go in and make a whole lot of screen captures tomorrow, since I'll have the day off for Canada Day. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 03:18, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
It would seem that I'm an idiot! After specifically mapping every last thing out in Paradise for possible screen grabs later on, I never actually made a permanent save while there, only quicksaves, so now I gotta COC my way back there. ARGH! --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 19:43, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
You know, you can make it easier just by typing TFOW in the console to turn off all the fog-of-war. That way you don't have to map every square foot of the area manually. A real time-saver when it comes to screenshots of maps. --TheRealLurlock Talk 20:23, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
D'oh! I don't like cheats like that, so it had never occurred to me to use it, even though somewhere in the distant recesses of my mind, I believe I was aware of that command. In any event, the current file is uploaded. If we want one without the FOW at the corners, I can probably do the additional captures readily enough. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 01:26, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

Boss level chest?

could give more detailed directions to the island with the spectral mud crab?is the main island the one that you first enter when you go through martin's portal? — Unsigned comment by Amantius Allectus (talkcontribs)

Look at the map; the mud crab is on the island over to the right. –RpehTCE 00:39, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Bands of the Chosen

Moved from page:

If you equip something that counts as full body clothing (or armor) the Bands of the Chosen will be taken off (e.g., the Black Hand Robe). {{VN|why would full body clothing remove the bands if equipping gauntlets doesn't?}} This is false. I tried it, the bands stayed on and the armor wasn't equipped.

It's been a while since I checked, but I seem to recall that equipping a full-body suit of armor (in my case, the Arena raiment) didn't replace the bands. As a result, I've removed the above note from the page in lieu of somebody proving the original glitch. --Gaebrial 02:38, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Paradise (place)

Should Paradise have a ... how do you call it ... "place" page? I mean a page detailing the world itself rather than the quest, like most other dungeons have, with the locations were enemies will spawn, containers, etc... --LordDagon 12:07, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

I'm not sure it's really necessary. We don't have place pages for one-offs like Henantier's Dreamworld. Rather, they are covered on the quest page, as Paradise is here. –RpehTCE 02:13, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

The Spectral Mudcrab

I need to know if the Spectral Mud Crab behaves like a normal Mud Crab or not, so if you're on this quest, can you pay him a visit and see for me? If you can, post the answer on my talk page. Ninja Hinder 19:54, 3 October 2008 (EDT) My talk

There is an article dedicated to it. It has some different stats, but is still aggressive towards the player. --Timenn < talk > 05:12, 6 October 2008 (EDT)


(Moved here from article's bug section)
If you Pickpocket Camoran enough, later when you try to pickpocket someone you will sometimes hear the phrase that Camoran says when he catches you.

At the moment, this comment is too vague to be able to confirm whether it's a bug, or even understand what is actually happening. What specifically is this phrase supposed to be that Camoran says? What makes you think this phrase even supposed to be unique to Camoran? It seems far more likely that he's just using the generic responses for his race, in which case there's absolutely nothing buggy about other people using the same phrase. Even if something unusual were happening, far more information would be needed on what triggers it -- "sometimes" is really not a useful adverb for a bug description. --NepheleTalk 15:46, 2 May 2009 (EDT)

Mankar Camoran

Sorry to bother you,but in my game when i was attacking Mankar,he hit Ruma and now she is helping me,i know this isn't a glitch,but every time i get Mankar down to low health,he heals to nearly full health,why does it happen? — Unsigned comment by Drago91500 (talkcontribs) on 11 July 2009

He probably cast a spell on himself. –rpehTCE 08:05, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Paradise Question

Well, I wondered if the Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Sleeper Agents die and go to Paradise? For example, if Cingor and Isolde attack me and I kill them, will I be able to find them in paradise? It makes sense but I'm not sure. Or, will they appear as an unnamed Immortal? --Arch-Mage Matt 22:38, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

No, they won't appear. --Elliot(T-C) 23:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Is this just an overlooked thing that the editors didn't think about, that ALL mythic dawn agents go to paradise when they die, including the sleeper agents?--Arch-Mage Matt 00:48, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Ever considered you do not meet every individual in Paradise? Please try to use some reasoning before assuming something is an oversight by the developers. --Timenn-<talk> 11:56, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Stuch because of a bug

after i should have received the bands of the chosen from the daedra, it says i get them, camoran goes through his dialougue. and i dont have them, ive tried doing job and then killing him, killing him, doing job, and with armor and without

I completed the quest Kathutet gave me, I should have received the Bands of the Chosen, I did all possible permutations of it, Killing at first, Helping, Helping then Killing. Both with and without armor, it says i receive them, but i dont. Im on the Xbox, so i cant use console

im on the xbox 360 any help would be much appreciated


I know you said he comes back to life, but where does he respawn?

Spell when opening the portal

When Martin opens the gate to paradise he seems to cast a spell on himsef.by the look of the spell it looks like drain attribute spell. does anyone know what he used? just wondering

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