Oblivion talk:Mankar Camoran/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Oblivion_talk:Mankar Camoran discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Thanks

Thanks for the explanation at the bottom. It cleared up what I didn't understand about Tamriel being Dagon's "birthright." =) 152.23.196.162 03:52, 19 February 2007 (EST)

Question

I'm confused, if only a true Septim heir can wear the Amulet of Kings, how can Mankar Camoran be wearing it? Apologies in advance if his family tree is here somewhere. Th232 06:08, 26 February 2007 (EST)

I don't know that it's ever explained. At first I thought maybe it was just because he was in his own manufactured universe in Paradise, but I think he's wearing it during Dagon Shrine (can anyone confirm that?) too, and there he's in Tamriel. I don't think he can have any Septim blood, since he's the son of the Camoran Usurper and a Bosmeri woman. In terms of the game mechanics, the script on the Amulet of Kings actually only prevents the player from wearing it; any other NPC in the game could put it on. But I wouldn't say that the scripting has too much relevance for the lore of the game; that was just the easiest way for the developers to implement what they wanted. --Nephele 12:04, 26 February 2007 (EST)
Apart from scripting the book The Trials of St. Alessia says that only a descendant of St. Alessia can wear it. 21 June 2007.
Isn't that book really just Imperial propaganda? I thought the Amulet of Kings was created by the Ayleids as the stone of White Gold Tower. Mankar is probably of Ayleid descent (many of them merged with the Cameron Dynasty after the Alessians took over). - Emerald Melios 20:14, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
In Daggerfall, the Totem of Tiber Septim(the TES equivilent of a nuclear bomb) states that only someone "of the blood of Tiber Septim may wield it," and then proceeds to rattle off a list of who those people are, none of which could feasibly "blood" related to any of the others. This leads me to think that the whole "heir" thing is symbolically implies a required level of raw "found an empire/become a God" badassitude, rather than a need for having had the same ancestors "knock boots". - 71.105.170.40 04:50, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
wearing the AoK has nothing to do with being a Septim. MC tricked the universe into thinking that he had the dragon blood through his symbolic actions in creating paradise and his children. — Unsigned comment by 24.31.156.165 (talk) on 27. July 2008
That thing about Tiber Septim in Daggerfall wasn't exactly the truth. I mean, c'mon. The amulet existed before Tiber Septim yes? And there was an emperor that wore it yes? And Tiber Septim didn't inherit the throne, he was a general who took it. And so by becoming the emperor and forming a bond with the amulet, he (and his decendants) gained the blessing of the dragon-blood. Mankar Camoran was the son of the Camoran Userper, who by force became the emperor, but an emperor he was. So his decendants have the dragon-blood as well.— Unsigned comment by 87.110.44.73 (talk) on 16 Feburary 2010
you know...i just noticed that Mankar is actually of an elven race (according to 1: his choice of magic and 2: his head uses the same model as a high elf. the Ayleids was just another name for a race of elves. and the Amulet was forged by...the Ayleids! so why couldn't Mankar be the last of an extinct - or near extinct - race? if anyone can give actual proof that this can't be possible, then i'll just go with what the guy above is saying. it's what's made the most since to me here.
I always thought of him cheating and taking a peice of string and tying the ends to the string and wearing it like that. I know its not the most serious sounding answer but hey thats what i would do.Critias 04:43, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

I know this is old convo but i have a theory that maybe his mother is of septim blood that is just a theorySecret Chief 20:37, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

My thought is that the dragonborn (a la Skyrim's hero) are the only ones who can wear it. The Septims fall under this category, perhaps also the line of Camoran too. --coldacid (talk) 20:57, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
No offense to you all, but I believe you guys are over thinking this. I would categorize this as a bug. The actual item, "Amulet of Kings", is an equippable item in all regards. However, due to the script that is placed on the item, it is unequipable by the player. BUT, NPCs are scripted by default to fill whatever item slot they don't have anything equipped to when they come into possession of that item. So, Mankar would automatically equip the item because he has no amulet on him, and he's supposed to have the amulet in his inventory. — Unsigned comment by 174.35.245.200 (talk) on 20:55 February 12, 2011
Is it possible that he is a Dovahkiin? Just to make a quote from the Amulet of Kings page: The amulet may only be worn by certain individuals - those who can be said to have the 'Dragon Blood' in their veins. Athathar 15:36, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
I think that this is and should remain a simple mystery for the time being. For him being Dragon-Born, it is very possible that one of his ancestors could have been born of a Septim. As for equipping, this is unlikely, as it would be very possible for the Devs to put the Amulet on his body only after he is dead. --DKong27 Talk Cont 21:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

() Well The Amulet of Kings requires you be of Dragonborn to wear it. So even though he is evil, Mankar Camoran could certainly be born with dragons blood. Also for those of you saying that he is the son of Camoran Usurper, that is yet to be proven as Mankar's mother was not a high elf and it's the race of the mother that is passed on to the children. — Unsigned comment by 67.224.72.128 (talk) at 06:15 on 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Alright, as a Lore nerd here is my input: Since they are just as powerful as the Gods, why do we assume that the Daedra could not make it so that Mankar could wear the Amulet? It is not beyond the power of Gods (they are basically Gods, though that title is not given to them) to alter Mundus. The last time any beings tampered with Mundus was during the Warp in the West. And Dagon seems to have done it as well.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 06:24, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
The Tiber Septim comment got me thinking: Tiber Septim usurped the throne, did he not? And in so doing, became the emperor, and therefore the protector of the Amulet of Kings, and, by extension, the one who controls the "Jaws of Oblivion." Mankar Camoran murdered Uriel Septim. As far as the amulet knows, the Septim dynasty is no more, therefore it has passed its mandate onto the one who usurped the throne, i.e. Mankar Camoran. The amulet probably doesn't care about the character of its host, only that a sentient being controls it to protect Nirn from Oblivion. The amulet therefore has no idea that its owner is actually intending to use the amulet's powers to permanently open the gates to Oblivion.Danjohnston1980 00:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)DJ
The Mythic Dawn DID kill any possible heirs to the throne, right? As morbid as it is, the cult could have the bodies of Uriel's known heirs. Just dip the amulet in a vat of their blood and wear the soaked item around your neck? Doesn't seem like much of a stretch for a bunch of Daedric cultists? -68.17.33.162 21:33, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Mankar's Age

He is immortal, and over 400 years old.

I'm moving this statement until someone can confirm it. First, I don't see how Mankar can be 400 years old: if he was born during Camoran the Usurper's invasion (based on the book The Refugees) then he was born sometime between 3E249 and 3E267. The game of Oblivion starts in 3E433, so that means he is at most 184 years old. I don't know of any statements claiming that Mankar is immortal, and 180 years seems likely to be within the normal age span of someone who is half-Bosmeri. --Nephele 12:15, 26 February 2007 (EST)

The 400 Years come from information that Tar-Meena relays during The Path of Dawn. Specifically she says about Mankar Camoran:
The supposed leader of the Mythic Dawn cult. He wrote the infamous "Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes." The "Commentaries" are contemporary with Tiber Septim, over 400 years ago. So he is unlikely to still be alive, although you never know.
Of course she may be wrong about the age of the commentaries. Possibly that age was meant to be ascribed to the Mysterium Xarxes itself. --JustTheBast 14:09, 26 February 2007 (EST)
Aha, thanks for pointing that out. It's also possible that Mankar Camoran isn't the baby named Mankar in The Refugees. It seems like a logical conclusion to say that they're the same, especially with the prophecy "He will bring death. He will destroy all." But I don't know if anything in the game clearly makes that connection. This might take a bit more research ;) --Nephele 16:25, 26 February 2007 (EST)
Is it not mentioned in Savants' dialogue in Morrowind that Elves can live for well over 1000 years? (Unfortunately, I can't seem to find this dialogue in the Morrowind CS, perhaps my memory is playing me tricks.) Anyway, Barenziah met Tiber Septim after the incorporation of Morrowind into the Empire in the late Second Era, as mentioned in the Biography of Queen Barenziah and she is alive and well at the time of the events of the game Morrowind. Some of the Telvanni lords of Vvardenfell, notably Dratha and Divayth Fyr, are also living testimonies of this longevity of the Elves. It seems, however, that only a few Elves actually reach this venerable age, probably due to diseases and other dangers. (There is another example, that of Tjurhane Fyrre, an Elven scholar at the university of Gwilym, who lived for 357 years, 1E2790-2E227, as mentioned in The Wild Elves.) --Quill 18:12, 17 August 2007 (EDT)
Tar-Meena never actually read the books. Part of it describes the defeat of the Cammoran Ursupre that happened only 166 years ago.
Night follows day, and so know that this primary insight shall fall alike unto the turbulent evening sea where all faiths are tested. Again, a reassurance: even the Usurper went under the Iliac before he rose up to claim his fleet. Fear only for a second. Shaken belief is like water for a purpose: in the garden of the Dawn we shall breathe whole realities. 62.251.15.186 10:47, 13 October 2007 (EDT) Proweler
I think a lot of people take it for granted that this Mankar Camoran is supposed to be the same Mankar Camoran mentioned in "Refugees". The modern Mankar might very well just be Tamriel variant of Jim Jones or L. Ron Hubbard, writing his own holy book, recruiting followers, and playing the role of the insane cult leader to the hilt. What some people are calling continuity errors, could very well be subtle hints that the dude isn't really what he claims he is. - 71.105.170.40 16:00, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
I'm sure he wears it only to prevent from being pickpocketed in Dagon's Shrine. Otherwise there will be a discontinuity in Main Quest.198.168.48.130 21:02, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

who is his wife?

anyone know who his wife is? (i do personaly think its odd that he had childeren) -- — Unsigned comment by 67.183.22.232 (talk) on 7. March 2007

Good point - Though I suppose if you're a powerful wizard and friendly with certain Daedra Lords you can do stuff like that. Heck, Divayth Fyr had at least 4 daughters, and as far as we know was never married. Come to think of it, who was Uriel Septim's wife? And who was Martin's mother? (Since I guess they're not the same person.) Ah well, it's good to be the Emperor. --TheRealLurlock Talk 22:52, 6 March 2007 (EST)
Yea, and where are _all_ children in oblivion, there aren't any, and whats the imperial sewers doing? they don't have any toilets in Oblivion do they? this could go on forever... --Viccce 14:45, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
But Divayth Fyr's daughters aren't really his daughters. Besides, you don't need a wife to have children. Mankar Camoran is so far across the line of morality, it would be nothing for him to take a mistress or two, or just persuade one his followers to sleep with him like a typical cult leader.
Yeah. And maybe she died a long time ago. If Camoran is really as old as we think he is, perhaps his wife died out from old age and he continued to live on past his natural time as a reward for his service to Mehrunes Dagon. It is just a theory. The other is just as good, but it does not seem to me that he would create children. He already has a cult, where all of its members are his hypothetical "children." So perhaps he and his wife had these kids when she was young, then he got involved with the Mythic Dawn, then she died, Camoran was rewarded with a sort of immortality to continue his service to Dagon, and then its now. His kids would still be alive because they were born awhile ago. That would also explain their prime age. --JB 13:31, 21 July 2007 (EDT)
Uriel Septim VII was married to Caula Voria but she died over 50 years ago. — Unsigned comment by 64.131.11.144 (talk) on 29. September 2007
As to children in Oblivion - this game started out with a Teen rating, not Mature, from the ESRB. According to ESRB policy, violence committed against children ranks a game at M. (World of Warcraft faced a similar issue, and that's why all the NPC children in the game are unattackable.) But it wouldn't be Elder Scrolls if you couldn't ace whoever you wanted to, so they just left out the kids. --Kementari 02:45, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
Mankar did not necessarily have a wife. His children are their own parents. They gave birth to themselves when they were brought to Paradise and achieved Nu-Mantial liberty. It is possible that he had some mortal progeny beforehand, but they bear no resemblance to Raven and Runa. — Unsigned comment by 24.31.156.165 (talk) on 27. July 2007

Mankar's Speech

Do his claims match up with what we learned of Lorkhan in morrowind? I remember that he was cast down and the dwemer had his heart but was his plane or dominion ever mentioned? --mLegion 07:44, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

I think it makes more sense to assume that the mismatches between Daedric Princes and the names of their realms are simple continuity errors, rather than evidence of Camoran's deceit. Lorkhan's nature and fate have been presented as a great mystery until this moment; all of the explanations have been incomprehensible, until this simple and elegant one, which matches the little that is clear about Lorkhan. Given that this speech of Camoran's comes as the climax of the story approaches, I think it fits as *the* revelation about the nature of the world in this installment of the Elder Scrolls series. Symbolically, by learning the truth and choosing to fight Camoran anyway, the protagonist is accepting human mortality. --FoolishOwl 04:45, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
Indeed! I think that there is the simple assumption that the books are right and that this guy is wrong without discussion of the possibly that he is telling the truth - after all, the books where written in-game long after the 'Mythic era' and its entirely possible the developers got the naming alittle wrong ; irregardless, its entirely within reason that Akatosh or Lorkhan (or are they really one and the same? Given Lorkhan's very vague details?) use to be in service to Mehrunes Dagon, and somehow rebelled and sealed off 'Tamriel'/Nirn from its Daeric Prince. Afterwards, if it was Akatosh, it would be somewhat understandable that he/she would want to 'edit' the past. It would explain why the Emperors are needed to light the Dragon fires in order to keep out the other realms of Oblivion, a process seeming unique to Tamriel - and if we assume Tamriel/Nirn isn't special in anyway, and another plane/planet Oblivion, it does answer the 'why'. But back to the point - none of the discussion is mentioned in the article, and unless the developers have stated one way or the other, surely some mention should be made of it, with the qualifier that it could be propaganda, lies, misdirection, etc. --Doug1984 13:16, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
I just read User:Mankar Camoran's full copy of the Tamriel speech and it seems very clear that Lorkhan is a Daeric prince (i.e. the prince of Nirn/Tamriel), and was betrayed by his minions (I don't reckonise the listed names). Anywho, it would certainly fit with the rest of the world canon if Mankar Camoran (the character, not the user ;)) was right and truthful. Where Akatosh fits into this exactly... I'm not sure. --Doug1984 16:44, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Julianos, Dibella and Stendarr are three of the Nine Divines. I don't know how or when they betrayed Lorkhan, though. --Mankar CamoranTCE 08:47, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
What he says about Tamriel and Lorkhan does fit with what we previously know, however, if remember my lore correctly, the Nine Divines hate each other. At least as far as Daggerfall goes, where joining one Temple drops your reputation with others. If this is still true, I don't see how they could cooperate enough to pull off something like this.

Lorkhan tricked the so called "Nine Divines" into creating the Mortal Realm and had their divinity partly stolen or something, i forget. Anyway they met in the Adamantine Tower, then they cast his heart far across the landscape and landed in a mountain (The Red Mountain in morrowind) Yours truly,Sheogorath, The -Prince of Madness 23:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Mankar's Speech of Oblivion and Tamriel

That's not the entire speech I don't think, and at one point in the game Tamriel is referred to as 'Mundus'. He stated that it was simply a realm of oblivion where Mehrunes Dagon had been betrayed by those who served him. And also mentioning how 'mighty gods could die, but the daedra stand incorruptible', with references towards tales of Lorkhan not being able to be erased completely because the Daedra could not be erased.

When the Shivering Isles expansion released, Haskill, Lord Sheogorath's Chamberlain, also referred to Tamriel as Mundus. — Unsigned comment by 75.89.3.86 (talk) on 2. June 2007

Mundus is another term for Nirn, the planet Tamriel is found on. Tamriel itself is just one large continent that the Elder Scrolls games have taken place on primarily. There are also other continents on Nirn, such as Akavir. Mundus is also sometimes taken as referring to the realm of existence that contains the "planet" of Nirn. --Skogul 09:30, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
If I remember my lore correctly, aren't the concepts of "planets" in TES games nothing but an interpretation of broken mortal perception of the planes of oblivion? -71.105.170.40 04:37, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
Although the question of whether Lorkhan is/was truly a Daedric Prince and Tamriel is just an Oblivion plane probably will continue to be debated, I think the game designers meant for the audience to accept Camoran's speech as fact, seeing as how there is no other quests or journal entries related to finding out more on the subject. In fact, the game was titled Oblivion rather cryptically i like to think; perhaps a way of hiding a secret right out in the open.
With that said, it is rather interesting then to think that Akavir is not of the same "plane" as Tamriel (According to Camoran, "Dawn's Beauty" refers only to Tamriel. How could the idea of planets be an illusion then, if only a body of water (and some crazy magic) divides two supposedly different planes. The Tamriel empire did manage to battle Akavir briefly, so if these are supposedly different planes of oblivion, why didnt the Dragon Fires divide them? What then, are the stars, the moons, and the sun in the sky? Why would a plane of Oblivion need these things? How would these concepts exist if not already present somewhere in the ES universe?
Im contradicting myself here, but perhaps the game creators have a way of correcting their errors/revealing the truth. I hope they arent getting lazy and creating games that contradict things only to sweep it under the carpet.
Perhaps Im missing something here and someone would kindly fill me in, but as far as Im concerned, Camoran's speech was meant to be a huge (and true) revelation to the player, but it doesnt seem like it was fully thought out. 209.134.75.234 17:05, 25 May 2008 (EDT)DarthShrute
Same here - I thought Mankar's speech was to reveal to the player that the whole of the history of Tamriel was a deception, or rather the formation of Tamriel was, heh — Unsigned comment by 84.70.17.12 (talk) on 6. June 2008
Mankar's speech does not conflict with established lore, it is only a difference in nomenclature and perspective stemming from alot of bias and a jaundiced view of gods and their contributions. — Unsigned comment by 24.31.156.165 (talk) on 27. July 2007
Honestly, when I played it, I though Mankar's speech was just to establish that he is absolutely bat**** insane. I never gave much thought into the possibility that he could be telling the truth.
I always thought I read somewhere that all the stars and planets and moons in the sky of Tamriel were supposed to be planes of oblivion and the like. I also thought Lorkhan was something close to a Daedric prince but sort of different too, like he was exiled or something, maybe because he made Nirn. So I think that makes Nirn all the same place, and not a plane of oblivion, because those belong to Daedric princes. And I thought Akavir was some very far away place that required a lot of procedure to get to, and you couldn't get back unless you went through more stuff (like those elf lands in Lord of the Rings) I remember hearing about the Neravarine going to Akavir when people are talking, so I doubt it's another plane of existence.
Sorry if I rambled, I am only trying to add another opinion on a discussion plz dnt flme--65.87.242.28 22:05, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

I forget where I read it, and I'll try to find it, but the version I saw in the game was similar to the previous person's contribution. It was along the lines that Lorkhan was created by Sithis to destroy the Daedra/Aedra, and so he presented himself to them as if he were one, and took on attributes similar to a Daedric prince. Perhaps it was the book "Lunar Lorhkan". Scxe 01:06, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

Altmer-Bosmer

It is stated in the book The Refugees that his mother is a Bosmer so shouldn't he be a Bosmer? I know he's an Altmer though.64.131.15.50 18:22, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

This is pure speculation. May be his father was an Altmer. --Mankar Camoran 08:10, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
True, but in the book Notes on Racial Phylogeny it is said that children take on the traits of their mothers. — Unsigned comment by 64.131.15.50 (talk) on 30. September 2007
Mankar Camoran is half Bosmer, half Altmer, if I'm not mistaken. SubtleCynicism 20:28, 30 September 2007 (EDT)
But he is considered an Altmer by everyone. He even looks like an Altmer, doesn't he? --Mankar Camoran 12:30, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
He's definitely an Altmer. I think this is just one of those little quirks we've all come to know and love about the game! --RpehTalk 02:56, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
Yes. He is an Altmer even according to the CS. Thanks to you, Rpeh, I just started using the CS. Amazing that I hadn't tried my hand at it till now. That's why this is such a great place. We can learn so much here. --Mankar Camoran 15:57, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

(Outdent)"If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants." Isaac Newton. I only know what I know because I know that those I know know those who know. :p --RpehTalk 16:05, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

That was really awesome! --Mankar Camoran 16:20, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
"Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present." according to Notes on Racial Phylogeny.--Itaav 19:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I was also interested in this, after reading that the Camorans apparently came from Valenwood. Anyone have anymore backstory on this? --81.110.103.157 12:20, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Mankar camoran

Im pretty sure he has a destruction spell on his spell list also, as he hit me with a fireball(directly shot out of his hand). --Umbacano 11:06 , 27 March 2008 (EST)

Good point. There were a couple missing spells, all of which have now been added to the list. --NepheleTalk 23:35, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

Disintegrate spell

Good that the remaining spells have been added. One note though: what type of disintegrate? Weapon or Armor?--LordDagon 08:41, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

It could be either. It's leveled. –RpehTCE 10:29, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Cammy and the Amulet

Maybe Cam can where the Amulet of Kings because he is in the wonderful place with his own rules and such. Just an idea--Drake3555 20:03, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

See the first discussion topic. — Unsigned comment by 24.31.156.165 (talk) on 27. July 2008

Mankar's Speech, final word

Mankar's Speech was written by Michael Kirkbride. It was a rough draft to get in character and a pre-write. Todd Howard is an idiot and he put it in game, therefore there are errors. The daedric princes are mismatched with their planes. And for crying out loud, this speech is not a "revelation" or "discovery." It is drastically oversimplified to the point of inaccuracy, correct only for the chronically pedantic. It was written as a an explanation of Camoran's beliefs and character, so we can understand why he did what he did. Of course Lorkhan was a deadric prince. All the et'ada were daedric princes until they created Mundus.— Unsigned comment by 24.31.156.165 (talk) on 27. July 2007

So do you have a source on that? Also, the manner in which it's included in the article is rather unprofessional. — Unsigned comment by 24.10.209.142 (talk) on 14. August 2008
Of course Mankar's not right in his speech, but it is included so that new players will wonder if he is actually right, while players who has studied the lore will understand that he's just a bit crazy and get over it. Yes, the daedra lords are mismatched with their planes, but that is a part of the same deal. It will fool the noobs, but the experts will see through it. But no, Lorkahn is not a daedric prince, the definition of the daedra is that they're the padomaic beings that did not participate in the creation of mundus. In fact, none but one of them did, and that one was Lorkhan. He is simply just a padomaic god, but neither aedra or daedra. So Mankar is wrong again. Or the answer might just be that Bethesda does not know their own lore. Jyggorath 16:40, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


By the definition of the difference between Et'Ada, Aedra, Daedra and Magna-Ge, Lorkhan is most certainly an Aedric spirit. Often referred to as the missing god he eventually got a place in the Pantheon of the Divines with Talos.

Aedra are the Et'Ada that participated in Lorkhan's project to create the Mundus. Those that realised it was a trap and left halfway through are the Magna-Ge. Those that never participated are the Daedra. Lorkhan is bound to the Mundus in the same way that the Divines are. The belief of mortals alters him, as happened when Tiber Septim mantled him by reenacting Creation. He is visible in the night sky, whereas Daedra and Magna-Ge are not.

As far as the top comment goes about Mankar's speech being a mistake, a rough draft, that makes more sense to me than any explanation I have otherwise seen about his horreur of a speech. Simple insanity does not explain away pairing the wrong Oblivion with the wrong Prince. 62.194.21.246 17:03, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Relation with Talos

According to the current revision of the article, the septims are not realted to Talos (A.K.A. Tiber Septim). Who added this line and where did they get the information from? As it contradicts just about everything in the main storyline. --Volanaro 02:59, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

It's not that they aren't related to Tiber Septim, but that they aren't descended from him. Uriel I was the son of Kintyra, who was the daughter of Tiber's brother Agnorith. See the Lineage Chart for details. --Gaebrial 04:44, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Really

i have been reading this and there seems to be alot of discussion cncerning mundus, nirn and the nature of the deadric princes and all that. may i throw in my own suggestion. perhaps he is simply wrong. perhaps his personal beliefs are wrong or he was poorly informed. the deadric realms in association to the princes are incorrect. perhaps his ignorance is intentional. or he could just be completly insane.i dont think it would be the first time that a character from the mundus (elder scrolls univers) had incorrect beliefs or was poorly informed. and definatly no the last. one character from the shivering island claimed to have created sheogorath with some seeds in the ground. the only reason no one took her sereously was because it is known that just about everyone one the islands was insane.

To me it seems however right that Camoran is someone we have few knowledge about. It is possible, in fact, that Camoran can be insane to the point of opening Oblivion into Nirn. The fact his age is mismatching a same-name mage 400 years ago, that he is Altmer instead of being Bosmer, and that he also confuses Oblivion realms and blares lies and blasphemas to the History of Tamriel, should confirm he might simply be a schizophenic imposter. Knowing there are few continuity errors in the very vast and complex story, it seems moreover unthinkable that such a crucial character can be so poorly developed. My theory is, the current Camoran can possibly be drawn in the Mysterium itself, and develop his own insanity cult on the book. For a reason dear to him (destroying the World, avenging/enjoying/...) he developped therefore on his lies (or what he believes is truth, perhaps) the cult, and the player's goal is somehow to stop Camoran's insanity. I would have loved, however, that it would be more than speculation : for instance, a secret book about Camoran, himself redeeming or begging for mercy, a hint of a desillusion and/or confusion... 83.115.202.212 12:15, 3 May 2009 (EDT) (also known as Balth3465)

"I owned that Jew"?

"When you confront him in Carac Agaialor (his palace) during the Paradise quest, he is wearing the Amulet of Kings and is equipped with Mankar Camoran's Robe and Mankar Camoran's Staff. I owned that Jew!"

What the hell is that supposed to mean?— Unsigned comment by 189.71.56.2 (talk)

It was blatant vandalism that was removed merely a few seconds after it was added; the user was also warned for it. Also, your note was not removed. And if you ever see stuff like that in the future, feel free to remove it. Thanks :) –Elliot talk 15:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Mankar Camoran at Cloud ruler temple.

When I did the Dagon shrine quest I got the message saying Mankar Camoran took the amulet of kings through the portal however in th zone he was still there just standing around and I couldnt effect him in any way. later on when I visited cloud ruler temple he was there standin on the place where martin later opens the portal. I could now talk to him but his only options were "Rumors" and "Prophet" So finally when I got to the quest Paradise and made it to his temple he never appears I waited around and killed his children many times but nothing. I only have one save slot for this and game so I can't go back. Is this a game ending bug? Has anyone been effected by this before? I'm on an xbox so I can't really mess with the console commands in any way. help?— Unsigned comment by 68.116.217.25 (talk) at 21:53 on 19 October 2009

This bug has already been referred in the Dagon Shrine page. If you're on the xbox then there's nothing you can do but to revert to a previous save file. BlackYoshi 22:12, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Help

Hello I have to do the paradise quest and on the quest page it says that he replects spells, does this also mean he reflects staffs because I have a 80 damage mages staff of schock and I dont want to do than damage to myself Arny 08:26, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes. That means spells from any source, including staves. rpeh •TCE 12:43, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks it also says he resists physical attacks so do you have to use a enchanted object or can you kill him with normal attacks Arny 12:54, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
No, he doesn't resist normal damage so any sword will work. rpeh •TCE 15:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Conan the Barbarian

In the first conan movie there's a cult leader (played by james earl jones) who mind controls people to do his bidding. not only does mankar camoran look like james earl jones, he also has his own cult. Should this be included as a reference or what? — Unsigned comment by 99.131.4.103 (talk) on 24 May 2010

He doesn't look anything like JEJ!!! Compare and contrast. rpeh •TCE 00:17, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
(Note: it appears the OP may have tried to respond, but the language and attitude were inappropriate and therefore I reverted it. I am nevertheless replying to the suggestion in that post.)
Even looking at an image from the movie, I see no resemblance at all. Robin HoodTalk 00:47, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Staff of Sheogorath

Should it be mentioned that he is completely immune to the Staff of Sheogorath? It froze his summoned daedra, but all it did to Mankar was light him up with light and smoke like a regular spell effect. He just continued attacking like normal. 96.253.119.151 03:27, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I doubt it should be mentioned; it's Shivering Isles specific (though it can be used in Cyrodiil). It's known to also not work on Martin, but to find out all the people who can't be affected by the staff would be useless. -- Jplatinum16 03:40, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's one way to do it

I was playing through the main quest line, and when I got to the Mythic Dawn Shrine quest, I managed to knock Mankar unconscious before he could disappear. I walked up to him, had a chat (no options were available other than "Rumors". He acted like any other NPC. Later, when I was with Martin, about to summon the portal to Paradise, surely enough Mankar was standing in the middle of Cloud Ruler Temple. I spoke to him, and there was no dialogue whatsoever. I attacked him, which got all the Blades to run up and join me. We killed him, I picked up the amulet, and that was the end of that.

It's an easier way of doing the quest, anyway. — Unsigned comment by 70.31.133.55 (talk) at 00:06 on 20 August 2010

It seems like something that was caused by mods. Mankar Camoran is set to Ghost during the Dagon Shrine quest so normally, it is imposible to interact with any way with him. --Rigas Papadopoulos 15:03, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Camoran Dynasty

I think he can wear the amulet of kings because he is a heir of Camoran Dynasty(Vvardfell 09:37, 21 October 2010 (UTC))

altmer emperor and prince

If he and his father is altmer , why they are heir of camoran dynasty(Vvardfell 12:27, 6 November 2010 (UTC))

Pickpoket

is it possible to pick pocket him in the shrine quest or is he wearing it because you cant pickpoket people of what they have equipped aye is that right? — Unsigned comment by Jamz slack (talkcontribs) on 00:19 (UTC)

I don't know if you can pickpocket him at all, but you can't pickpocket what people are wearing, assuming you're talking about the Amulet of Kings... Please sign your posts in the future ~ Dwarfmp 00:50, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Moved note

  • With the release announcement of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, it is now known that the previous statement about it being unknown how Mankar could've worn the Amulet is mistaked the only other possible way that Mankar Camoran could wear the Amulet of Kings would be if he himself was a Dovahkiin, or Dragonbone, meaning he had Dragons blood in him. Only Dragonbones can light the Dragon Fires, wear the Amulet of Kings, and become emperor

I feel this probably wont be allowed on the page at all, if that is the case undo my talk post as well.--Catmaniac66 00:48, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


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