Semi Protection

Oblivion talk:Crime/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Oblivion_talk:Crime discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.


i need help i have no bounty but when i go to alters it says "repent your crimes wicked one!" anything i needa know?— Unsigned comment by Hazer396 (talkcontribs)

I believe altars also care about your Infamy to Fame ratio. You may want to do some "good" quests to boost your Fame points. --Nephele 01:49, 17 July 2006 (EDT)
If you steal something that costs 1 gold and somebody sees you, your bounty will be a fraction of 1 gold as the formula dictates. The game will round the bounty down to zero if it is less than .50 gold. So that is how it is possible to have a bounty, but see a bounty of zero . 14:50, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Avoiding theft during the Mages Guild Recommendations

A previous poster mentionned that there were three cases where theft was required in order to complete the Mages Guild Recommendation quests. However, this is not quite accurate. The three cases I'm assuming we're talking about are:

  • Bruma: You must steal a book from Jeanne Frasoric, the head of the guild. This can be avoided by finding J'skar yourself using Detect Life and then Dispel to get rid of the invisibility.
  • Chorrol: You must give a book to either Earana or Teekeeus, then steal it back and give it to the other one in order to receive both the recommendation and the Finger of the Mountain spell. However, if the spell doesn't interest you, you can just give the book to Teekeeus, get your recommendation, and avoid stealing anything.
  • Bravil: You must steal back Ardaline's Mage's Staff from a house in the Imperial City. I don't know if there's any way to avoid this one.

--TheRealLurlock 13:11, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

Completing the Bravil quest without stealing is easy: Soris Arenim offers to sell you the staff for 200 gold, as long as you raise his disposition high enough. For the Cheydinhal quest, on the other hand, you have to break into Falcar's drawers and take his two black soul gems, which does add 2 counts of stealing to your statistics. That's the one that's difficult to get out of, as far as I know. --Nephele 20:09, 23 October 2006 (EDT)
Two years later, I had to revisit this question while editing the article's section on Stealing. I only left two quests on the page, although three others have been mentioned. For the curious, I figured I would document here all of the quests and why they did or did not get included on the article, in decreasing order of relevance.
  • Cheydinhal Recommendation, 1-2 special Black Soul Gems. Included in article. This is the only Mages Guild quest where stealing is unavoidable (although it's been fixed by UOP)
  • Bruma Recommendation, Jeanne's Manual of Spellcraft. Included in article. Although stealing the book can be avoided, you are explicitly pointed towards stealing the book.
  • Bravil Recommendation, Ardaline's Mages Staff. Not included in article. Kud-Ei gives you Beguile scrolls, so implicitly her recommended method of retrieving the staff is to charm him into giving you the staff.
  • Fingers of the Mountain (Chorrol Recommendation), the book Fingers of the Mountain. Not included in article. If you follow the guildmaster's (Teekeeus') instructions, you get the recommendation without doing any stealing. Stealing the book is only necessary to complete the second, optional, part of the quest.
  • Ambush, the Colossal Black Soul Gem. It only counts as stealing if you pickpocket the soul gem; if you kill Falcar and take the gem, no theft is recorded. Nobody recommends that you pick Falcar's pocket, and it seems somewhat self-evident that someone who wants to avoid theft charges should not be attempting to pick somebody's pocket.
--NepheleTalk 11:16, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Disposition for avoiding bounty

The page mentions that it is possible to avoid paying your bounty by raising the disposition of the gaurd to 100. I tried this after killing several gaurds (bounty between 4k and 6k) with a charm 100 for 3 secs but the gaurd would not help me. Anyone know why?--Vhalantru 23:55, 29 October 2006 (EST)
It might be that your bounty was too high. The guards actually say that they will pay your bounty for you (rather than just dismissing the bounty), so it could be that if your bounty higher than what the guard can afford to pay, the option disappears. Or else it could be that they're not so willing to look the other way when you've killed several of their companions. --Nephele 00:18, 30 October 2006 (EST)
If your bounty is over 1000 gold, the guards will not pay your bounty for you.

Getting to a doyen

I'm with the thieves guild and once i stole a raspberry by accident and the merchant saw me so a crazy Bruma guard chased me all the way from Bruma to Imperial City where i sat waiting for Armand to come. Too bad i was too early (it was only like..1 in the afternoon?) and the guard chased me all the way down. I think the concept is just stupid, you don't leave tracks in Oblivion, and i was water-walking through the lake around Imperial City. How was the guard supposed to find me? In any case, i couldn't get to Armand in time to pay my fine away, is there a way i can avoid the guards long enough so that i can still get to Armand in time? Like jumping onto a roof and waiting till 12 midnight for Armand, then jump down (with the guard underneath) and get that "Stop right there!" dialogue? I suppose i could just click resist arrest, then talk to Armand and pay the fine. Would the guards ignore me then? Thanks, would appreciate the help.

I've tried this in Bravil, stealing stuff and then running to S'Krivva's house to pay off the bounty. On a rare occasion it will work, and the guards will stop chasing me, but most of the time it doesnt. What usually happens is I pay off the bounty, and the chase music is still playing and guards eventually come into S'krivva's house looking for me. If I yield to them, they dont give me the "pay your fine speech". I get a typical greeting and a normal conversation menu as if everything is fine. When I stop that discussion, the chase music starts again and they try to kill me. 15:15, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, you can't really "hide" from a guard, but there is a glitch that won't let a guard get to you. If you resist arrest and paralyze the guard and enter a building (from outside) the guard cannot become un-paralyzed (is that a word?) until you go back outside. Also, if you resist arrest and pay the find with Armand, you have to yield (hold block and activate the guard) to the guard and he will say the "Can I help you citizen?" thing. So does this answer your question? Verin Sedai 22:45, 20 November 2006 (EST)

Another way to do this is of course, to pay the fine and break back into the evidence chest in the Bruma (in this case) Castle. Finally, Armand is normally in his house during the day, and while it says you will be trespassing, you actually won't be; guards won't mind and he won't mind. Go into his house and talk to him. Verin Sedai 22:48, 20 November 2006 (EST)

if u have an invisibility spell u can simply resist arrest then go invisiblerun away and FAST TRAVEL to a location (i always go 2 a fort just outside the imp city waterfront) then run off the road and get behind some big rocks (just in case a guard comes past and kills you) wait till about 11:30pm and just swim 2 where armand is there will be no guards!!! — Unsigned comment by (talk)

If you are fast enough (get naked and drop all heavy objects if absolutely necessary) you can outrun a guard far enough for him to give up chasing you. You will still have a bounty, but once the guard's sword is sheathed, the guard force will no longer chase you down when you approach Armand. This is what I do most of the time since I am fairly fast for a Nord. I prefer swimming to running because it appears to be faster and I don't have to worry about terrain. This is why I prefer resisting arrest in Leyawiin or Bravil.(Gromir the Wasted) 23:35, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Disposition at 100?

Well, during the Sanguine quest, I pushed the guard at the door's disposition to just 91 and then he offered to 'pay the fine himself since we were good friends'. My fame isn't 100 points higher than my infamy, so does the disposition really have to be at the dot of 100? You sure it isn't 90?-- 15:44, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Good catch. The requirement is indeed that the Guard's disposition has to be greater than 90 (and your bounty has to be less 1000). --Nephele 00:56, 8 February 2007 (EST)

It's a tough world

Anytime two or more NPCs start fighting it will not stop until someone is dead. Has anyone ever witnessed a NPC yielding to the guards, or anyone else for that matter? Kind of silly when a Mythic dawn agents summons his gear, gets attacked by both guards and townsfolk and when he is dead the guards will also dispose of townsfolks that attacked the agent...

Nope. Guards kill anyone with a bounty on their head, and the civilians either fight back or run away, but never get jailed. I also think it's interesting how the guards psychically know you're about to be attacked when the agent is just looking at you threateningly. --Darkheart 15:48, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Questions about theiving and spells

(moved from Oblivion Talk:Oblivion) Hey, is it at all possible to steal a NPC's armor that they are wearing without killing them by, say, forcing them into bound armor? --Ordon Crane 20:05, 16 November 2007 (EST)

In theory, yes. Reverse-pickpocketing zero-weight armor such onto them and waiting for them to wear it will mean their other armor becomes available to steal from their inventory. Tricky to do though. --RpehTCE 04:06, 17 November 2007 (EST)
Many armored NPCs will remove their armor when they sleep. You can steal it from them then.--Kandarin 02:41, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

Stolen Items

Moved this from main article to talk page:
Sometimes, it seems that some of the items you have stolen will be reverted to non-stolen, ie. the little red hand will disappear and they cannot be fenced towards the guild's "Independent Thievery" quest.

"Sometimes" makes it a very weak statement. This seems like something that is very hard to verify or disprove. --Timenn < talk > 02:57, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Well. The way I have had it happen is the following : One walks into someplace during a stealing spree, and pickpockets someone who subsequently detects the pickpocketing attempt. So they wake up and say, for example : "You have overstayed your welcome, friend." So leave in a hurry, and the guards will come to you. The usual talk is done. Pay the fine (should be about 25 - 50 gold, if I recall correctly) and you will respawn in front of the prison. Go back in, and loot the evidence chest. I do not know exactly what is causing it, but about half of the time, in my case, the game does not recognize the items as stolen anymore. Neohaven 03:10, 16 January 2008 (EST)User:Neohaven

I broke out of jail and now....

I Broke out of jail in anvil and took my items back and now it tells me they are all stolen, so the only way i am aware of making them authentic is by selling them to a fence and then buying them back which would be fine buy i have alot of items and i probably cant pay to get them back and not all the items will be able to be bought back... can anyone help out? Anyone know another way around selling items to a fence and then buying them back to make them authentic?

You could try serving your time instead of breaking out. I'm not certain it'll work but it might be worth a try. If not, you'll at least get a boost in mercantile skill for buying and selling your goods, plus a lot of gold for the Independent Thievery quest! –RpehTCE 03:33, 16 February 2008 (EST)
Well now you have to reload a game save to when you were in jail, before you "stole" your items back and then serve your time. (if you serve your time after you stole the items back, then, well they count as stolen and will never be given back until you steal them back again..).--TrUeSnIpE Z 20:33, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

I FOUND THE ANSWER: OK well i know exactly how to fix this i just tried it and you may try it as well... i was getting really mad at my game for this because it has a problem and doesn't save so i couldn't load back to not break out of jail.. well i stole my items back and it kinda did this so... i took a useless item like ***lock picks*** since i have the skeleton key and they are usually pretty cheap anyhow. so i went to jail and did my time and got my lock picks back *** turns out what you did not already steal in the first place does not already count as stolen so you will get it back when you come out :D and if you don't believe me try it will lock picks or some spoons or what not.

NPC commited crimes

Recently I noticed that some NPCs steal items for some reason, people yell at them, guards come and walk away, and it got me all paranoid when one of the bums in Waterfront said people around there pickpocket so I'm just wondering if NPCs can pickpocket you. 05:35, 16 February 2008 (EST)

NPCs will only steal items on plain view - they certainly won't ever pick the player's pocket. –RpehTCE 06:23, 16 February 2008 (EST)
NPCs only steal when looking for items during the Find and Eat AI packages. If they have no food on them, and cannot find any non-owned food around, they will steal food laying out in the open, or they will find another NPC with food and attempt to steal it. Once they have targeted food in another NPC's inventory you cannot drop food on the ground for them to take because they will keep targeting the NPC until they reevaluate their AI package. The NPC can get away with the theft if their sneak skill is high enough. If they get caught they will be killed if they do not have the money to pay off the fine when the guards reach them. The NPC's crimegold rating will go up by 25 when they are caught pickpocketing, and it will go up by the value of the item when they steal something out in the open. It should be noted that even if they steal an item with zero value (like Big Head stealing forks), the guards will still come to collect money off them. Since their crimegold rating doesn't get reset they will have to pay their fine all over again even though it didn't go up any. You can see this behavior with Shameer on Tamika's Vineyard around 11am or 7pm. If you want to try and save their life there are some things you can do. Pick pocket the target NPC first, and then put food on the ground or in a nearby container. The thief NPC will reevaluate their AI package, and then find the next nearest food. If the NPC has unlimited food (like Bernadette Peneles who is a target of Shameer at 11am) then there is no way for you to stop the theft by stealing food from the target NPC. Instead you can avoid it by immediately waiting until after the Eat package is finished (usually two hours), fast traveling, casting command humanoid and taking them to another location, or if they are far enough away from the guards they will get a crimegold rating but it won't be high enough for guards to approach them when they get closer to town. You can always bribe them before hand to give them enough money to pay their fine. If you don't have the option to bribe them because their disposition is 100 you can cast command humanoid on them, strike them a couple times with a weapon, and then when command humanoid runs out their disposition will be at or near zero. You can have a little fun with this by pick pocketing the target NPC, taking all their food, and then giving them a Poison Apple. The thief NPC will keep targeting the same NPC since they still have food, and will take and eat the Poison Apple. A somewhat bad side effect of an NPC getting caught is that the target NPC will go into "This NPC has already caught you" mode, and you will not be able to pick pocket them for 24 hours even though you weren't the person who got caught. NPCs will never target you for pick pocket. --Shalley303 11:14, 17 February 2008 (EST)
Nice research :) I think a lot of that information would be useful in the article (perhaps also with a reference at Oblivion:Disposition), if you'd like to figure out a way to incorporate it. Feel free to ask if you have questions about how to do it! --NepheleTalk 13:27, 17 February 2008 (EST)
I did some more testing on this and have discovered that NPCs need twice as much money as their crimegold value in order to not get attacked. It also doesn't look like they get hit for the value of the item they stole, and they get to keep the item. I gave 150 gold to Shameer. Shameer had a crimegold value of 25 after being caught. The nearby guard ran up to him, and then walked away. After that Shameer had 100 gold, but his crimegold value remained at 25. I reloaded and gave him a crimegold value of 50 before his pickpocket. After he got caught his crimegold value was 75. After the guard ran up to him and then walked away Shameer had zero gold. I saved immediately before the pick pocket, and then gradually increased his Sneak skill value and reloaded until he wasn't caught. He was caught every time at 99, but was never caught with a Sneak skill of 100.
I also did some testing in IC. I gave a beggar 10,000 gold, and then set their crimegold rating to 500. This is the minimum amount of crimegold needed to make the guards run up to the beggar without her having committed a crime. However since her crimegold value did not get reset to zero after paying the fine the guard would walk away and then immediately run back to her. Eventually her 10,000 gold was gone, and the guards attacked and killed her. I kept pick pocketing her during this to make sure that she was losing money. She lost 1,000 gold every time the guard ran up to her.
The player's crimegold value gets reset to zero by scripts and dialog options when you perform actions to reduce it (go to jail, pay fine, thieves guild, or friendly guards). Since the actions between the guards and other NPCs are not scripted, the functions to reset their crimegold never get called. It is possible that an NPC who gets caught stealing too many times will eventually get to the point where guards will constantly ask them for money. They will then quickly run out of money and be attacked. Though I don't think there is any way this can happen in normal game play since the thief will run out of money long before they can get caught that many times.
There doesn't seem to be a way to fix this since the interaction between the guard and NPC is built into the game, and not handled by objects and scripts that can be changed in the construction editor. There are some ways I think you could work around this with mods.
  1. Make a mod that increases all gold in the game so that lower class citizens have hundreds of gold for which to pay off their fines. This has the negative effect of making gold in the game even more useless. You could limit your modifications to the LL0NPCGoldLowerClass object since only NPCs in the lower class should be stealing food.
  2. Make every NPC in the game have a sneak rating of 100 since this skill won't effect your game play. That has the downside of taking away a neat part of the game in that an NPC can be caught in the first place. You won't be able to edit the Sneak skill for NPCs who are level offset against the player, but you could create a spell ability that fortifies Sneak by 100 and assign it to every NPC. This would act just like a birth sign for all NPCs, and this way you aren't messing with economics or directly editing skill values.
  3. Make a mod to give all NPCs some food item. This would be a huge undertaking with little payoff.
  4. It may be possible to edit all of the Guard scripts to do something with the begin OnAlarm function. However I am not sure how they would get the target reference. If they could get a target reference you could reprogram the guard functionality to take their gold of equal value to reference.crimegold, reset reference.crimegold to zero, and then stop the process of trying to arrest them. This is how the game should behave anyway.
Thanks Nephele. I am not sure what pages would need this kind of info, and do not need any sort of credit for it. If you would like to just cut-and-paste any valuable infomation into other wiki entries then feel free. :] --Shalley303 19:29, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Mod for NPC's

Is there a (trustable) mod that allows an NPC to yield to a guard for a crime they can pay the fine for? I dont like that guards kill an NPC for stealing an apple, since I want that infamy point at some time.. - Korunox 08:07, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Not sure if it's precisely what you are looking for, but I understand that the next/latest version of Reneer's Guard Overhaul allows NPCs to go to jail for crimes. --Gaebrial 03:31, 22 February 2008 (EST)
Okay.. Does the NPC in question go to jail for the time the player would go to jail for that crime, or do they just re-appear after a short while? It would be crappy if the NPC you need is in jail for the next few years after killing a Mythic Dawn agent and after that killing 3 guards before yielding. (would be realistic, but some things shouldn't be real) - Korunox 06:45, 22 February 2008 (EST)


Does anyone know off-hand how often, if ever, the evidence chest re-spawns? For example if a person makes a jail-break and doesn't grab all the stuff out of the container, how long will it stay there? --Alaston

If I'm looking at the CS correctly (Editor ID StolenGoods, Name Evidence), it doesn't respawn at all. So basically, your stuff should stay there until you go and get it back. --Eshetalk15:13, 22 February 2008 (EST)
Thank you for looking into that, Eshe. I'm on a 360 and can't view the code. I appreciate it. --Alaston

Why can't I pay my bounty?

I was arrested and broke out. Ever since when guards approach me there is no option to pay my fines, even though I have more than enough money. What's the deal? Also, what is the formula for time served relative to the bounty? I've had to leave bodies in every town I show face in and my bounty's around 70,000 now. I could be looking at years! 14:15, 7 March 2008 (EST)

For the time question: One day per hundred gold, no more than ten days, no less than one. As for the other question.. I think after a certain amount of bounty is reached you can't pay it off, even if you have the money, but I'm not certain where I got that from, so grain of salt. -Dan 9410 16:35, 7 March 2008 (EST)
Maybe you didnt have enough money in the first place? Just serve your time and it will go away.--TrUeSnIpE Z 20:42, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
Once you get 5,000+ Bounty, you lose the option to pay it off. Raise a Guard's Disposition to 90+ or use a Thieves Guild Doyen. --Debatra 17:41, 27 November 2008 (EST)
I had a huge bount for jailbreaking a ton of times (i got a kick out of it :D ) and always grabbed my items and gold, eventually i payed the fine, it was over 100,000 (it was one of my "zen" charecters as i call them) i dont think theres a cap on the amount, but killed one guard, resisted arrest and tried to pay the fine, and the option didnt even show — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 17 November 2009

Quest Items

Alright so I have items like Umbra, Boots of Springheel Jak, Fork of Horripilation, etc. that are considered quest items even though I've finished whatever quest they belong to (so I can't get rid of them). I went to jail and they were all removed, but when I got my stuff back at the evidence chest they were not in my inventory anymore? Is there any way to keep them, or do I just have to avoid going to jail in the first place? Also, my Fork is stolen, so if I pay my bounty will it be confiscated even if it's a quest item? — Unsigned comment by (talk)

Guess what? We actually write the articles so that the information is provided in the articles, where people can read it and find out the answers without having to post questions on the talk page. Which is why in the section Go To Jail it says:
Breaking out of jail has one significant glitch: no quest items will be returned to you from the Evidence Chest. Therefore any quest items you had in your inventory will be permanently lost if you break out of jail (and you cannot stash them elsewhere for safekeeping before being arrested). The only way to get the quest items back is to go to jail again, and this time serve your sentence; the quest items will then reappear.
--NepheleTalk 11:31, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Shivering Crime

Guess what? I went to jail in Shivering Isles, where you have no choice but to break out of the jail. There is NO option of serving your time to get your stuff back. And when I left the prison I still didn't get my stuff back. 20:23, 27 April 2008 (PST)

Details on crime in the Isles are here. You don't get an option to serve your time - the punishment is that you have to survive the dungeon. There is a chest near the exit of the prison that contains your stuff - you can take it back from there. –RpehTCE 04:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Murder addition?

Somewhere along the line I noticed that I had picked up four murders in my journal. One of them (killing the Grey Prince) I was aware of and was appropriately contacted by LaChance. I assume the other three were for jumping the gun on combat in the "Siren's Deception" quest, but that's just a guess. At some later point in time, I happened to run into Hieronymus Lex and got an odd comment from him about not wanting to talk to someone with blood on their hands. I immediately checked my bounty (zero) and Infamy (also zero) and checked Lex's disposition (mid-80's due to high Fame and boosted Personality), but could find no immediate cause for that comment aside from the four murders in my journal. This had zero effect on gameplay, but was odd enough to file away for checking out later. Anyone feel like filling me in and possibly adding it to the "Murder" section, if appropriate?Marstinson 21:29, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Dude I get that sometimes from those guys,and i got 130 fame,no infamy!It is just a random comment they say if you have killed someone before.I killed one of the Sirens when the attacked me and the Khajit one called out Murder! Just a random comment they make like greetings magister(Battlemage) even if u are not apart of the mages guild and are meeting Tar-meena for main quest. --Prince of Madness 00:05, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

It's a guard dialogue, triggered by the presence of murders in your journal, detected or not. Even if you have no infamy and no bounty, it will still come up. 19:08, 12 November 2008 (EST)

NPCs that take their stolen goods back

Ive noticed that certain NPCs that catch you stealing from them will come after you and take their stolen goods back. In Bruma, if you go in to Alga's house, try stealing a couple of items while she is there and then let her catch you stealing something. She will walk over to you and move her hand towards you as many times as items of hers appear in your inventory. It is not an agressive movement - it is more like a touching movement. Each touch is accompanied by the 'unequip' sound.

I also noticed something similar with an orc I pickpocketed in Lleyawin. I pickpocketed one item successfully, then tried again a couple of seconds later and got caught. He came over and took from me the item of his I already had.

Does this work with all NPCs or just some? 15:05, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Yeah! I've been meaning to put this up before! I've done this with Manheim Maulhand and Varnado, they both take any stolen items back from you. Kinda weird, but realistic, I guess -Dan 9410 16:18, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
all NPC's do that, maybe not in shivering isles, i have the game of the year edition, but havent been to shivering isle. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 17 November 2009

I know how to escape when you choose Resist Arrest

Hi, I'm writting this cause in the main page you said that, when you Resist Arrest, you'll eventually need to go to jail or pay the money. Well, I've found a way to avoid that. Perhaps you're aware of it, or perhaps they deleted it in some of the patches (I'm playing version 1.0) so please enlighten me as to why this method doesn't appear anywhere ^^

I have posted it in the main page, but I'll like to write it here as well:

"There's one way to resist arrest and get away without going to jail or paying money. First, click on the resist arrest option, and afterwards use an Invisibility or 100% Chameleon spell. Now, the guards won't chase you for the duration of the spell. Now comes the most tricky part of it: while you're invisible (that is, during the duration of the spell), find a spot where nobody would see you even if you weren't invisible, and stay there in sneak mode until your spell effect expires. As soon as the spell finishes, the guards will start coming to attack you again, but that doesn't matter: BEFORE THEY CAN SEE YOU AGAIN (that is, before the eye in sneak mode lights up) you must use the invisibility spell again... and this time, you'll be free, and even when the spell expires they won't chase after you. Indeed, the trick consists on becoming invisible when nobody can see you: this way, the guards stop chasing after you, and you've succesfully resisted the arrest without any penalties of any kind.

  • On a side note, the only drawback of this method is that your bounty still counts. So, the next time you do something illegal, you'll have BOTH bounties, the one you escaped from and the one you've just acquired. Anyway that's not a problem, cause you can't simply escape again using the same method."

  • If they have 100 depistion(?) towards you they pay the bounty for u.Just a heads up. --Prince of Madness 00:07, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
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