Skyrim talk:Sneak/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Sneak discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Drawing Weapons While Sneaking

I've noticed that drawing weapons while sneaking causes you to move at the speed of having a weapon drawn while running normally. This continues until you stop moving at which point you will start moving normally again. — Unsigned comment by 211.28.55.50 (talk) at 03:27 on 17 November 2011

Jumping does this too. --dUc0N 14:54, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

There is also a bug where when you are sneaking, if you pull out your weapons and tap the sprint button at the right time, you will perform the sneak roll ability that you get with the sneak perk at lvl 50. -Also works with sheathing your weapons. --Exuvium — Unsigned comment by 151.188.105.130 (talk) at 18:18 on 21 November 2011

The Notes Area

Has about 5 million "the easiest way to level up sneak". The two about the tutorial cave are the same only typed differently. - 74.38.16.62 09:50, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be easier to generalise it all and note under what conditions (wall, bucket, whatever) NPCs can't see the PC? Levelling Sneak is super straightforward. 81.233.217.129 16:43, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I have just organized the methods. --Shm0key 03:13, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Level sneak is super fast if you use sneak attacks. I made a new character yesterday and he had Sneak Level 45+ by the time I cleared the bandit camp at the guardian stones, the tower on your way to the golden claw and the actual barrow where you find the golden claw. Using nothing but successful sneak attacks to kill every single opponent (the first kills were kinda tricky while your skill is low, but you can use arrows to distract and to trick mobs to walk to a position where you can backstab them - you can also take down lit torches which will reduce the light level alot). This was done dressed in robes, using a regular iron or steel dagger and without using any "exploits" other than running from combat to restealth when I got noticed. --X 192.36.187.189 12:43, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

You can do a forward sneaking power attack (this does not work with unarmed backstabs, you need a weapon for this). This make it eaiser to make a sneak attack on someone when you are following a mark that patrol infront of (away from) you. Trying to sneak up behind him and stand still to backstab (or do a standing power sneak attack) is often hard to pull off if you use a weapon with short range - such as a dagger (or unarmed). --X 192.36.187.189 12:50, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Does the.shrouded glove bounus really apply to assasins blade? The description of it very clearly says backstab, not assasns blade, and a legendary daedric dagger with the full 60x modifer could do 1260 damage ((11+10 ) *(15)2) which just seems massively overpowered, I'm not saying anything, id jst likethat double-checked, i play on xbox so i can really do it myself Qwertyone 00:07, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

60x? I'm not sure where that's all from, but I've seen plenty of 30.0X on youtube. 81.233.217.129 23:15, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

It only goes up to 30x, no further. Also, a daedric dagger will have much more than 21 dmg with legendary, due to skill multipliers. Either way one backstab is more than enough to one hit kill.

EDIT: If you power attack (Doubles attack damage), Then it will become 60x. Ending up with a whopping total of, yes, 1260 damage. However, the net damage will be less than the attack shown on the item menu multiplied by 60, due to armor ratings. --Shm0key 01:51, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

You can also dual-wield daggers for even more damage :-) 195.67.240.236 01:22, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

You won't get the beast backstab animation though. --Shm0key 23:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure if you need the animation, however the ancient shrouded gloves and jester's gloves double all one-handed sneak attack damage which would get it to 60x anyways Ikthyace

No You don't get 60x, the power attack doubles damage before the modifier applies so you'll get (Base Dmg x 2)30 = Total Dmg. I had legendary Daedric Daggers that did 50dmg so a dual wield sneak power attack was doing 3000dmg per hand so 6k damage total after all modifiers. Which is still enough that I was able to sneak instakill at Draugr Death Overlord with only one hand. Lord Eydvar 01:31, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Bro, multiplication is associative. (Base Dmg x 2)30 = (Base Dmg)(30 x 2) = (Base Dmg)60

about the assassins blade perk the only highest number as far as i know for the modifier is x30 and also dual wielding dagger is much stronger than wield 1 sword and 1 dagger, tried it 2 daggers kill my enemy at 1 hit while only showing x30 while wield sword and dagger shows x30 followed by a x12 but didn't kill my target so i think there is really a x60 damage modifier the only problem is the game only shows x30 as the maximum modifier its a different story when it comes to power attacking which i believe is (base damage x2)30 --Ennix 21:33, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Ready/unready spells exploit?

I noticed that when you sneak and dual-wield spells, if you quickly press the "ready weapon" twice, you will get a small jolt of speed. This can be spammed. Someone confirm. 178.183.230.40 13:55, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

It's a glitch involving the Roll perk. Works with all dual wielding.--Shm0key 02:01, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that with daggers (single or double) if you're moving forward while sneaking and ready them you will retain that boost of speed until you stop moving. Doesnt seem to work with dagger/spell combo, and I havent tested it with non-dagger single handed weapons. I've got the Roll perk (and 100 sneak) so I cant say if that factors into it. I've found it incredibly useful, so maybe it should be put into the bugs section? With it you can easily travel significantly faster than having your weapon sheathed. 98.214.38.217 21:24, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Dagger damage calculation

While One-Handed controls the base damage for swords and such, it doesn't seem to do so for daggers. Will raising the Sneak skill increase one's dagger base damage, ignoring the sneak attack perk, or do daggers not have their base power modified by a skill like other weapons?

166.182.3.199 05:47, 26 November 2011 (UTC)Garm

Are you referring to the base One-Handed skill value or the Armsman and Bladesman perks? AFAIK base skill value does not modify weapon damage, Armsman affects all one-handed weapons including daggers and Bladesman only affects swords. 178.183.247.238 06:47, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

So, the first perk set of 1H is the only way to increase base dagger damage? It seems odd that the skill value itself wouldn't play any role in determining weapon damage, and especially odd since that would split dagger performance between two perk trees. 166.182.3.15 07:03, 26 November 2011 (UTC)Garm

It does affect damage indirectly because it governs what level of Armsman you can get, which is a pretty hefty bonus. Same thing happens with Destruction; the skill level does not determine the damage done, but you can get perks which increase it(and higher level spells). As for splitting the performance between two trees, the Sneak only affects backstab damage of daggers - just like it affects backstab damage of all other weapons. 178.183.247.238 07:30, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

As someone mentioned (and tested) in the discussion section of the one-handed skill description - Daggers benefit from your actual skill level in one handed weapons, from the armsman perk, and from the assassin's blade perk. They do NOT benefit from magical, enchanted, or alchemically applied FORTIFY one-handed skill bonuses, they do not benefit from the bladesman perk (they don't count as swords). An easy way for any PC user to test the skill level or armsman bonuses validity is to simply save your game, then use the console commands to raise your one-handed skill level from 15 to 100, or to add/remove levels of the armsman perk. Also, it seems that dual-wielding daggers for a sneaking-double-weapon-power-attack will sneak attack at LEAST two hits with the assassin's blade perk bonus, possibly all three (things are usually dead by then so i have trouble checking).Limduhl 16:43, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Realistic AI and sneaking

Due to the "investigate" tendency of the NPCs and monsters in game, it is possible to sneak past guards standing alertly in doorways or narrow hallways even at low or medium sneak levels. Since arrow shots make noise while sneaking, a useful and rewardingly realistic trick to sneak past an inconveniently placed enemy is to shoot an arrow at a spot you'd like them to walk to. fairly accurately copying the common "throw a stone to make them investigate" trick - this arrow impact will cause the enemies to know something is up and go walking over towards the point of impact (watch your aim!) for a moment before returning to their station. The player can then run past the formerly heavily guarded station with a greatly reduced chance of being detected. Keep in mind firing an arrow closer to the guard gives you less time to run past, as the guard moves a shorter distance to check the noise, and firing too far away will not alert the guard at all. Just something i felt like sharing due to the usefulness and realism of the tactic. Limduhl 16:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Not sure what you hope to add, but yes. I often enjoy setting the AI up for easier kills. It's mostly present for archers than anyone else, though.-Zydrate[][] 16:36, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

You can also use it to set up a sneak attack if your skill is not high enough to sneak up to him where he stand. Stay behind cover, fire an arrow that the guard will investigate and backstab him as he pass your cover. --X192.36.187.189 12:25, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

That is also the point of the "Throw Voice" shout (whisper)Ikthyace

Psychic Enemies Outdoors?

Anyone else notice that enemies outdoors seem to have a much greater visibility than those in dungeons? Even waiting until nightfall to sneak past the enemies can apparently see you plain as day unless you're hiding in the shadows, and this is with Sneak 100 and all stealth related perks, wearing Nightingale armour! It makes sneaking into dungeons very frustrating, particularly on the larger forsworn strongholds where a single guard detecting you out of the corner of their eye with uncanny precision will alert everyone to your presence.

Sneaking in Skyrim should be better but I can't help but feel that sneaky characters in Skyrim just aren't as rewarding as they were in Oblivion, as there are less true stealth missions, and an enemy's ability to see you appears to be very inconsistent. *sighs* Not to mention dragon battles… Haravikk 16:13, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

You can use arrows to distract your opponents and you can use Shadow Warrior to "frontstab" your target even if you are locked in combat. --X 192.36.187.189 12:28, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it is the same problem that existed with Fallout 3/Fallout: New Vegas - sneaking during the night doesn't actually help you much... On a side note, I guess it is that giant moon's fault - too much moonlight will give you away ^^ 195.67.240.236 01:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

This is what Invisibility is for IMO. Sneak is mostly for the sound you make, invisibility is to avoid being seen. Illusion synergises really well with a sneaky character anyways. If you really don't want to go the illusion route you could also use potions (alchemy is a thief skill so..). They even added the Quiet Casting perk to tell people this is what it's for :) --41.135.18.95 22:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

headshots?

The current revision mentions headshots; I thought TES didn't have locational damage though? Can anyone confirm?

Confirmed as incorrect. (Faldar's Tooth is a good test location, since the bandit boss has 500HP even at an early level, and likes to sit in a chair with his back to you). Aliana 10:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I would really like this confirmed by an outside source or by multiple players, because I play on the 360 and have personally found that doing body shots often take two or three arrows to kill them, but when the arrow strikes the throat or the head it often kills them in one or two hits. I've gone against bandit bosses and it may take up to eight arrows to kill them, but only three or four if to the head... 9:51 PM 18 Dec, 2011 (CST)

I'm on 360 and from what I've seen it seems in general that any head impact does additional damage. Arrows are the most noticeable since it seems to double the damage but even melee weapons seem to gain a bonus for neck/head impacts. Helmets however seem to drastically reduce this bonus. Lord Eydvar 01:36, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

There is no locational damage. It's been tested thoroughly through the PC console which displays mob health and damage. See the discussion page for Archery.--DagmarH 09:49, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Sneaking multipliers

Two things, Muffle and the armors and their weightless perks. For the Muffle, does anyone know to what degree and what parts of sneaking it affects? Is it a 100% decrease in armor noise or a 50% decrease in running noise... does anyone know? As to the armors, has anyone tested whether the perks actually affect sneak score or not? The numbers are still there, it is just not added to your overall weight whilst equipped. Ikthyace

I don't know about armor weight and all, but if you are in front of a falmer (which are blind so sight does not play a role in detection) and are wearing muffle boots and sneaking (100 sneak with all perks) you can literally jump up and down or run in circles around them and as you don't touch them they won't detect you. I'm assuming muffle gives you 100% silent movement.

Two-handed/Unarmed 3x damage with Backstab?

It says in the Skill Usage section that Two-handed weapons and fists get a 3x sneak attack multiplier but I have tried this myself and still only get a 2x multipler. Is this a mistake or is there another factor I'm missing? --Valadez 16:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

It's only a 2x multiplier --Mushkilla 16:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Sound when killing enemies?

The article mentions that swinging a dagger is silent, but it doesn't mention what happens if you hit something with it. Is it silent if you one-hit kill the enemy but not otherwise, or? --41.132.180.110 09:09, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, killing an enemy with a dagger sneak-attack is completely silent, assuming the other NPCs can't see you when you make the kill. Your target will likely make noise, but as long as you're using a dagger and out of line of sight of the rest of the NPCs, they will not become alerted. (Jester, unregistered user)

Bucket / Kettle trick?

I don't know how to preform this. I've tried it on shop keepers and bandits. I've cleared a room down to just one person and when I go to try this, nothing happens. I can't equip the bucket or kettle and when I put it in their inventory via pickpocketing, nothing happens. Well, aside from now that they somehow have a "magical" bucket from "nowhere" in their pocket... Can anyone help explain how to do this? Afterwards, I feel this should stay up, for anyone else who is having the same issue. 9:21 AM 19, Dec 2011 (CST)

Same user. I am leaving the question up, but striked out, because I feel it is a relevant question and I have found the answer, so I will share my results accordingly. I looked at Google and found that on the PC, you are to go into your items menu, go to the bucket or kettle, and remove the bucket or kettle from your inventory, than use the mouse to manually place the item upon their head by turning it upside down and maneuvering it in such a way that the emptied space (Where items / liquids would be stored) is facing down and it sits upon their head as a helmet would. The bucket / kettle blocks their immediate vision and allows you to sneak around literally just a few feet in front of them and be unseen. My problem was that it was on the 360, and so I assume PS3 users would have issues as well. The same idea applies, only slightly differently. First, drop the bucket / kettle from the inventory, than move your crosshair over the item and grab it via holding down the "take" button. The crosshair will "lock" (Shrink inward and stop flexing) and you will be able to pick it up and move it around in the air, just like in Oblivion. From there, merely get close enough and slide it over their head just as previously stated. Hope I helped! Feel free to clean this up a bit, if you have a better way of wording it. 9:33 AM 19, Dec 2011 (CST)

Silence vs Muffle

Several places in this wiki imply or say that the "Silence" perk (Able to run without penalty while stealthed) removes the detection penalty of wearing heavy (in terms of weight) armor. In effect, they say that silence provides 100% muffle.

Is there anything to support this claim? I've always assumed this perk meant that you made just as much noise running as walking, and unless you had additional muffle effects, heavy armor still made more noise than lighter armor until you reached the perk that made armor effectively weightless. However other pages are claiming "Silence" makes you silent. I quote the Heavy Armor page, "However, Heavy Armor is also noisier to move in than Light Armor, so it always adds a penalty to stealth. The Silence perk of the Sneak skill eliminates this drawback, as does the Muffle spell/enchantment." NFR 20:30, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I dont think that the Conditioning/Unhindered perks have an impact on sneaking... Afaik there is no objective measurement for "silence/muffle/sneaking/..." so most facts are guesswork and even more wishful thinking --Psychomc 22:08, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

If you look at the muffle talk page, there has been quite a bit of objective measurement on the effectiveness of different strengths of the muffle perk. We can determine if someone's armor contributes to their detection. Has anyone tried it without any muffle spells/enchants but with the silence perk? NFR 22:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

^ Yeah I have on my newest thief character (I use the Thieves Guild armour exclusively on this character, so no Muffle there) , extensively. It's 100% silent. Your movements make no noise whatsoever when in sneak mode. And for the record, Muffle is the same. 100% silence. Only with Muffle that applies both in and out of sneak mode. I know that for a fact, because I use that on the boots of EVERY character I make. Even the warriors. I have a warrior in full Daedric at level 69 with no perks in Sneak, and the skill itself is only 43. No sneak fortifications either. Even so with Muffle on my boots I can sprint around like a madman, and as long as I stay out of the enemy's field of vision they can't detect me.

Try it for yourself it's not difficult to set up. A good place to see it in effect is Haemar's Shame, a lot of the enemies in there are facing away from you as you come across them so there's not much risk of you entering their field of vision until you want to. Just kill the thrall watching the entrance, then run around the corner to the left. There's always a vampire facing the tunnel. You can run straight up behind it and "activate" it, at which point it will begin searching for you. It will probably find you within a few seconds lol, but there has been times where I've done this and it has begun searching further into the cave despite the fact that I was following it outside of sneak mode about two inches behind it.--62.30.162.142 01:06, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Shadow Warrior

There is very little information about this perk on the page. Here are some questions I had that may warrant addressing... 1. Does the perk make your character model invisible like the spell does? 2. Are some enemies still able to detect you? 3. Is the perk exploitable or gamebreaking in any way? 4. Can the perk conflict with other effects or cause bugs? I'd add these to the page myself, but I don't yet own the game. 166.182.3.232 23:45, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

1. It makes your character invisible like in Oblivion for one second. 2.Yes, depending on the surroundings the can even if you try to exploit the skill (see 3). 3. If you spam the sneak button you will be permanently invisible (some enemies can still see you depending on the light and if they face you), however if you intent to run away pretty much nobody will find you and you can even get a sneak attack in mid-combat if you time it right (with a x30 dagger attack pretty much a gamebreaker for me). 4. Nothing im aware of. Rengaru 01:22, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

For question 4: can it conflict and cause bugs, yes. If you have any effect that makes you invisible (eg. the "agent of shadow" received after completing the thieves guild quest line which makes you invisible for 2 minutes), shadow warrior will cancel that effect when used. --Mattrimkevx 22:15, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Silent Roll

Before I add a note about it, I want to confirm. Has anyone else noticed that when you have your weapon drawn, you can just hold down the sprint key to continuously roll around, but if your weapon is sheathed, you need to press it again after every roll? Noobishlord 04:53, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I noticed this, but only in first person. In third person you can always continuously roll, but when your weapon is sheathed in first person you can't. (PS3) --68.41.143.211 17:43, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Left-handed backstab?

Has anyone witnessed a killcam when backstabbing with a dagger held in the left hand? Could someone confirm or infirm this?

70.26.178.150 21:49, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, I don't think you get finishing moves with the dagger in the left hand. I used to dual wield them and got to cut throats all the time, but I have been using a sword in the right hand for a while now and have not seen any. I will keep paying attention and let you know. --Esterot 22:20, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

most of the time you can cut throats still although with a sword you get a sweet sword-through-the-spine killcam

Dogs

Article mentions "Dogs bark, making them very poor companions if you wish to be sneaky." I have never witnessed the actual bark drawing any attentions. If my followers and I are all behind a walk in sneak mode with an enemy on the other side the bark never alerts them. I tried with the nearly useless rental dog and with the constantly barking Barbas. In fact I have Barbas with me 90% of the time and his bark has never alerted enemies even once. However, the dog's sneak rating is not very high so bringing one along on a stealth job can lead to difficulties. Can anyone confirm that the dog's bark has alerted an enemy? Or is the article merely putting coincidental evidence together. 75.80.97.155 12:13, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Shadowmere

I have been reading that you are able to sneak up on Shadowmere and do sneak attacks because they do not turn around. I have not been able to go undetected with Shadowmere in front of me. Can anyone confirm is this leveling trick has been removed with patch?

I'm not sure but you can still sneak attack the greybeards from behind and they won't fight back if you want to level sneak.RIM 18:07, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

How to guess if you will execute a sneak attack on the enemy in combat?

Greetings.

When going invisible (potion/spell/shadow warrior) in combat, the "eye" thingie still stays wide open and flashing for some time. Enemies might keep attacking you (now invisible to them) or start roaming around saying "cant hide from me" or "where are you". Question is, how do you know if your attack will be considered a "sneak attack" for the purpose of modifiers.

I tried just sneaking into an attack but this very rarely works (most often i wont get the sneak attack this way). I tried going behind them but still this doesnt always help. Is there a way to know? Will attacking when sneaking and being invisible on an enemy who is in "where are you" mode give a sneak attack and when?

Same for bows - often the dragon would fight someone and i'm sneaking and i'm not "eyed" but arrows hitting the dragon wont benefit from arrow sneak attack. Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. How do i make sure they do? 194.190.40.89 10:33, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

One fail-proof way that I've found is to wait until the NPC sheets their weapon. This is obviously not very convenient. If you are on the PC you can use the console command swdp to list what is currently detecting you. This may come in handy to help find a better strategy to understanding the mechanic.Thuraya Salaris 10:51, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Movement vs Sneak Leveling

Is anyone certain as to what factors affect leveling sneak in terms of movement? I have a Shield Bash build, and with the perks that can be used to move faster while sneaking led me to a few questions like, is the time spent moving what levels sneak, or the distance traveled? And a useful exploit I've found playing a Shield build, with the perk to sprint with a raised shield, you can literally sprint while sneaking, and once your stamina drains you still sprint, regardless of stamina.

My sneak skill is 100. Any point in using sneak-enchanted apparel?

I've already got 100 for my sneak skill. Unlocked all the perks. I was wondering if there is any point in using enchanted apparel to reach a higher level of sneak? From my experience it doesn't seem to help, sometimes you get detected no matter what. Could anyone confirm? I'm wearing apparel that give me respectively +30% and +40% sneak but if it's pointless I might as well use my items for something else...

Put a Muffle enchant on your boots, use Illusion's Invisibility spell. You can sneak like a pro at level 15 sneak with these two things. If you don't care for Illusion, get potions. Luna Moth Wings, Chaurus Eggs, Nirnroot and Vampire Dust have invisibility effects, and Chaurus Eggs and Luna Moths are very abundant. Muffle definately though.--CrowsCreed 00:08, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

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