Shivering talk:Summon

Need for Page

All of this information is redundant, it's in the OB page. Lukish_ Tlk Cnt 07:33, 30 December 2008 (EST)

I guess we were splitting that page and nobody told me. The OB page should probably be updated now. Lukish_ Tlk Cnt 08:08, 30 December 2008 (EST)

I edited this Oblivion:Summon page to include some of the ones from SI. However, I feel that they should have their own page along with the other summonable creatures in the Shivering:Magic page. I put them on the OB page because I felt that they should at least be up somewhere. I'm very new so I'm having trouble making the page and I guess it doesn't help that I dont have all the information I need to complete it. :( (Gadianzero 08:17, 30 December 2008 (EST))

All the info should be covered on the Oblivion page, and this should be a redirect to it. This follows the pattern used by Morrowind:Summon, which includes summons found in Tribunal and Bloodmoon. The problem with having the page here is that it creates a large number of red-links which will never be pages, since all the base pages for magical effects exist only in the non-expansion namespace. The other possibility would be to edit the template such that it can be pointed at another namespace, but given that there are so few effects added by expansions (and almost all of them are summons, thus covered on a single page), this seems a bit unnecessary. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 09:52, 30 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks, that helps a lot(Gadianzero 10:17, 30 December 2008 (EST))

I fixed this up and removed redundant content on OB page, I would have let this die if it weren't for this comment and the lack of a few details there. Lukish_ Tlk Cnt 10:51, 30 December 2008 (EST)

In response to Lurlock's comment, I don't think we can make universal rules that "all pages named X always get expansion pages" but "all pages named Y never get expansion pages". Rather, what needs an expansion page needs to be determined based upon the individual page. Does the expansion add enough of that particular content to create a meaningful, non-permastub page? Would adding that content into the original page make the original page overly long/difficult to use? So creating a Tribunal:Summon page would be somewhat silly, given that Tribunal only adds one summon effect. On the other hand, SI adds a dozen new summon effects. They weren't previously documented anywhere (the effects weren't documented), so adding them here makes sense to me. --Nephele^Talk 03:39, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Haskill

Is the second N/A in Haskill's effect ID necessary? (Gadianzero 10:14, 1 January 2009 (EST))

My bad. Fixed. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:42, 1 January 2009 (EST)

The game uses the number 0 for his magical cost. Is this the same thing as Base Effect Cost and if so shouldn't we keep it as 0? (Gadianzero 14:38, 1 January 2009 (EST))

The cost of casting the spell is not the same as the effect base cost. The effect base cost is a fixed value for every magical effect; it then gets plugged into the spell cost equations to determine, based on that particular spell's magnitude, duration, and area, how much that particular version of the spell will cost. So it costs far more to cast Flame Tempest than to cast a simple Flare spell -- but the effect base cost is exactly the same in both cases, because both spells use the same effect, namely Fire Damage. Or as another example, the greater power Dragon Skin costs 0 magicka to cast -- but that doesn't mean that all Shield spells have zero cost.

For summoning Haskill, the cost of casting the spell is not relevant on this article -- which is about the base effects not the spells. The spells, and their spell costs, are documented elsewhere. Because Haskill is a script effect, it does not have a true base effect. You can't go to the spellmaking altar and create a 2 second version of the spell. So N/A is the appropriate value. --Nephele^Talk 03:29, 4 January 2009 (EST)

His attack is listed as sarcasm. I don't have a problem with that, I'm just bringing it up. 68.199.249.139 18:19, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

I've removed the entire effect. It's already covered at Shivering:Magic so it's not lost. Most info values were "N/A", and it isn't a seperate magic effect, so the entry wasn't particulary useful. --Timenn < talk > 09:05, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

I've readded Haskill. I know he may not be a combat oriented summon but he still fits under the category regardless. — Unsigned comment by Gadianzero (talk • contribs) on 3 August 2010

I've taken it off again. He doesn't fit here. Summon Haskill is a script effect, not a standard Spell Effect. As Timenn pointed out, the section can only ever have "N/A" for most values so it is of no value on this page. rpeh •T•C•E• 06:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Script effect or not, Summon Haskill is still classified as a summon spell in the game. Numbers and variables in the programming don't change this fact. He still responds to the world around him even if he doesn't take damage. The category page for Shivering:Summon falls under the broader term of Magical Effects not Spell Effects. The value that Summon Haskill has on the Shivering:Summon page is the fact that it is a summon spell. — Unsigned comment by Gadianzero (talk • contribs) on 03 August 2010

Reverting the edit every time you post on this talk page is not the proper way to go about this discussion. The only way this spell would classify as a "Summon" spell is in its name. This spell's function is purely for the plot's sake and has no direct influence on your gameplay as all other Summon spells do. If you check the entry you can see that at least 5 of the 9 columns contains useless entries.

Numbers and variables greatly influence the game, in fact they are what makes the game run the way it does. They are less prone to misinterpretation than the game semantics, so for the sake of objectivity it's best to stick to them as much as possible. --Timenn-<talk> 21:30, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

It is not "classified" as a summon spell. The spell is given the burden icon rather than any kind of summon icon. The spell's effect is entirely script-based rather than using an actual spell effect. Lastly, the spell is still documented here, so it's not as if we're really deleting content - just putting it in the right place. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Greater Powers

Do the Greater Power summons really cost 1 magicka? I would think they would be free like the other Greater Powers in the game.

As above, this article documents the effects' base costs, not the cost of a particular spell using the effect. The base cost for each of those three effects is 1. --Nephele^Talk 03:29, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Absorb Fatigue?

I think the hungers absorb fatigue or health for that matter, the little red lightning thing appears. Can someone please verify?— Unsigned comment by Star Mage (talk • contribs) on 23 January 2010

The stats of the normal and summoned varities are specified in the Hunger page. --S'drassa ^•T2M 15:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Flesh Atronachs

Is this information accurate? It says at level 21+ you summon a Mended Flesh Atronach, but on the Xbox 360 I'm level 36 and I summon a Sewn Flesh Atronach, and I can't find any summonable Mended Flesh Atronachs in the CS, or a magic effect that involves one. --142.161.37.46 23:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Well I just tested in game and it works exactly as described.

In the CS, you're looking for the Power SEPwSummonFleshAtronach, which has an effect of Summon Flesh Atronach. Look at the Magic Effects list for that power and you'll see it has an "Assoc. Item" of SELL1AtronachFleshSummonLvl100. That's a Leveled Creature, which at lvl 21+ contains a SECreatureAtronachFlesh5, which is a Mended Flesh Atronach. You must be looking in the wrong place. rpeh •T•C•E• 07:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Something similar is happening to me on the ps3 only I can only get a summon mangled flesh atronach power. One of my chaacters is level 30 when I did this quest and I still only got a mangled flesh atronach, anyone know a fix on ps3?

Permanent Summoned Flesh Atronach?

I summoned a Mended Flesh Atronach to help me kill everyone in Anvil (I do that sometimes :p). After the spell's duration was over, the Atronach went on killing people! Afterward I decided to kill it - and it's body didn't disappear like a summoned Atronach would.I could even loot its corpse! Has this ever happened to anyone else? 64.231.245.93 21:10, 23 December 2010 (UTC)Sheogorath's Punished

Dark Seducer stats

These can not possibly be correct: Health =43 + (6+1.4)x(Lvl-1), Lvl=5-40. I am not sure how to find the right answer (advice would be great), but these values need fixing. Axxchor 04:23, 16 September 2011 (UTC)