Shivering talk:People

Layout

I'm not sure how this page is "supposed" to look, but I categorized all the people after their locations now anyway. --Pyntix 17:23, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Oh well, I redesigned it again, much like Oblivion:People, with tables.--Pyntix 13:48, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

There are now two categories both named "Other": Other Locations and Other. Perhaps insert the entries of the latter into the formatted table of the first? --Timenn 11:17, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

On Oblivion:People, there are two sections, one for other locations where multiple NPCs are found, and another for NPCs that are found by themselves. As such, those locations with only a single NPC in them should actually be moved down to the lower section, if we were going to match the style of Oblivion's page. Not sure there's really enough to keep them separate, but I'll leave that decision to people who know SI better than me. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:26, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

There aren't many more people in the Shivering Isles than that. But it's probably better to move the four single NPC's down, it makes the two categories more balanced. (Just waiting to see what other people think.) --Timenn 16:57, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, it would make sense to move Traelius, Clanfather Malifant, and Yngvar Doom-Sayer down, but I also think it makes sense to leave Nelrene where she is, because she is part of the group of people in New Sheoth Palace. --GuildKnight (Talk) ^contribs 17:19, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Actually, isn't Nelrene supposed to be part of the House of Mania?

Also, would it make sense to make templates for the categories? As these people tables are also used on the pages for the individual settlements and city parts. --Timenn 17:42, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Yes, templates for the categories would be best... I'm just starting to learn all that, though.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'd love to take care of this, making the template and replacing the tables with the templates on this page and the individual cities/settlements. Anyone who knows can clarify this for me; how would I do this, or is there a tutorial-type page, either here or at Wikipedia/Wikimedia? --GuildKnight (Talk) ^contribs 20:05, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Edit: Unless I'm stepping on your toes... did you wanna do the template, Timenn? --GuildKnight (Talk) ^contribs 20:06, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Are you just talking about splitting the page up into pieces basically, like Oblivion:Anvil_People and Oblivion:Bravil_People (that then get included into Oblivion:People, Oblivion:Anvil, and Oblivion:Bravil)? In that case, it's largely a matter of cutting and pasting the existing tables into appropriately named pages (Shivering:New_Sheoth_People, perhaps), and then replacing the table with a transclusion. So, for example, with that suggestion for a page name, you would add {{Shivering:New Sheoth People}} to make the new table appear.

Or did you have something fancier in mind? If you were thinking of more detailed breakdowns (like separating Crucible people onto a separate page), I think the same basic approach would still work: cut and paste the existing Crucible table to Shivering:Crucible_People, then use {{... page name ... }} to make the contents appear where you need them.

If you're feeling confused about templates versus regular articles, it's because the line between the two becomes a bit blurry here. What you're doing is creating a regular article then using it like a template, by using the template {{...}} syntax. My general feeling is that if the chunks you're creating contain information specific to a game (e.g., a listing of people for that game), then the page should be created as an article (e.g., with a Shivering: name); if the chunks you're creating only contain formatting and layout, then the page should be created as a template (e.g., with a Template: name). I'm not sure if I answered the question or just added more confusion :) --Nephele^Talk 21:48, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I've been shocked to find out how complex the vocabulary is for wiki-ing... So, is that transcluding (creating Shivering:New Sheoth People and replacing the New Sheoth table on Shivering:People with {{Shivering:New Sheoth People}})? --GuildKnight (Talk) ^contribs 22:48, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Yep, that trick with using {{...}} is called transcluding. Or at least, that's the term that I learned to use for it. It seems like over the last year Wikipedia has shifted to just calling it "including" instead of "transcluding", probably because people understand "include" a bit more easily, and it's not clear what the difference between the two really is. But I'm not positive about that; it's mainly just an impression from the articles that I have scanned through recently. And definitely you'll see "transclude" used in a lot of places around UESP. --Nephele^Talk 23:28, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Would that be an appropriate approach for this page? --GuildKnight (Talk) ^contribs 23:32, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I think so, although I can't really provide too much input on how to best organize Shivering Isles information. --Nephele^Talk 00:38, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

What I had in mind was something a bit more complex, but just cut 'n paste will do the trick nicely. GuildKnight, if you would like to do the "templates", be my guest. Don't worry about my toes. ;-)

As for "inclusion" vs. "transclusion"; I believe "transclusion" means adding part of an article (but could be the entire article) into another article. And "inclusion" means just adding the entire article (without any option to select a part) to an article. That still leaves the question wheter wiki software "includes" or "transcludes"... --Timenn 06:26, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Okay, I've started on the transcluding... I'm trying to figure out how to place the tables side-by-side. Also, (and I've asked this question here, too) I can't figure out why using <center> worked for "House of Dementia," but not for "House of Mania," "Palace of Sheogorath," or "Sacellum Arden-Sul." --GuildKnight (Talk) ^contribs 20:53, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Knight of the Thorn?

Is there a member of the Knights of the Thorn in the Shivering Isles? I heard Raven-Biter talking with another NPC in the Choosy Beggar. I swear he said something about a Knight of the Thorn living in the Shivering Isles, something like "I heard that there is a Knight of the Thorn living in...." I dont know where it was. Can anyone confirm? Dio 225

Yep: Pyke. --Nephele 17:17, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Unsorted NPC's

I can't find Delas Sarandas in the Construction Set. He/she is not listed as NPC and doesn't show up in text search. Can anyone confirm if this NPC actually exists in the Shivering Isles? --Timenn 11:15, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

Likely somebody got it confused with Felas Sarandas? All it would take is one half-inch of finger slippage to make that typo. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 12:42, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

Oops, I checked if some NPC existed with a name that looked liked it, but somehow I didn't came up with the obvious spelling error in the first letter of the name. Felas Sarandas is already listed as citizen of Passwall, so I assume this "Delas Sarandas" can safely be removed? --Timenn 15:38, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

I assume so, though I don't know that much about Shivering Isles. Anyhow, if it's wrong, it can always be fixed later, so I'd say go ahead and take it out. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 17:55, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

Then there is Brevi, who is a NPC in the CS, but doesn't appear in the game. She does have some unique dialogue, and was probably intended to be present at the Battle of Cylarne. I believe it is common for such NPC's to be listed on the People page, but not to have their seperate NPC page? --Timenn 11:03, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

Only if we're absolutely sure she never appears. We'd have to check and see if there's maybe some script or something that causes her to appear, or who knows? Not knowing much about SI, I can't say, so I'll leave that decision to people that know better. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:36, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

She is only used one time, and according the Use Info that use is for the one line of unique dialogue she has. If I remember it correctly, script references to a certain NPC do appear in the NPC's Use Info Box? --Timenn 11:47, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

No Icons for Earil?

Shouldn't Earil have the spell icons for Conjuration, Destruction and Restoration after his name, since he sells these spells?

Child Eater?

On my last Playthrough I could've SWORN some guy talked about "Delicious Children" but I can't remeber his name. Does anyone know who this is, if they've seen him?

That would be Ortis near Sheogorath's Shrine. He's not actually in Shivering Isles, which is maybe why you can't find him. ‒ Robin Hood↝Talk 00:30, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

No Female Nords or Orcs in Shivering Isles or at Sheo's shrine.

Apparently female orcs and nords aren't "mad" enough to be apart of shivering isles. I have looked in earnest and went through all named npc's good evil or dead and not one of them is a female nord or female orc. My best guess is the voice actress for the two isn't going to be returning in Elder Scrolls V? The only way a female nord or orc can be found in the Shivering Isles is if it were you, the player character. Another interesting fact is there is no Orc mage in the Mages guild but there is a single female Orc healer in one of the church's in Cyrodil. Monday, May 09, 2011

Also I would like to point out that the majority of the mad found in Shivering isles dead or alive are elves, there are 29 of them named. I guess Elves are the mad race? 13:25 Monday, May 09, 2011 (Pacific Time Zone)

Yeeees. We know. See this category and its sub-cats. rpeh •T•C•E• 20:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I noticed we have the "by race" subcats, and then the race and gender subcats...But the race and gender ones are mostly empty. (Example, Altmer has 8 people, but male and female are both empty.)Nikomis 20:39, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to guess that you're clicking on the "+" rather than on the category name? There are five people in Shivering-Altmer-Female and three in Shivering-Altmer-Male. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah. I figured out later what I was doing wrong. (See the Talk page on the subcategory.) I just forgot to come back here and put a message up to disregard my last bit. Sorry about that! Nikomis 21:02, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I didn't know that page existed, i was just clicking on everybody's name looking for a female nord since I saw no "gra's"