Oblivion talk:Roleplaying/Archive 1

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Semi Protection
This is an archive of past Oblivion_talk:Roleplaying discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Origins

Moved this page from Oblivion:Things to Do When You're Bored and placed it here. Then replaced Oblivion:Things to Do When You're Bored with this page on the main page, on the in depth guides section. Pappasmurf 19:10, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Cleaning up these articles

Suggested Limits

I would like to propose that this page at least be limited to actions that can be done without using the console. A large number of readers do not have access to the console; the console is considered to be cheating by many people; and, there are almost countless possibilities for actions once you start adding in console commands. Does anyone have any counter-arguments, or objections to deleting all references to the console (and thus all activities that are only possible using the console) from this page? --Nephele 15:50, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Me. While I agree with you, it limits incredibly what you can do and what you can do lawfully when you don't use the console. Sure, a lot of 360 users read this page, but that doesn't justify yanking away all ideas for PC users. 68.82.237.175 20:45, 27 January 2007 (EST)

I agree with 68.82.237.175 on this one. I personally use the 360 and don't care if there are console commands scattered throughout the wiki. (also my complements to whoever made this page : ) ) Pappasmurf 16:48, 8 February 2007 (EST)

To add something like: "You can allso use console to recieve your payment" works fine imo. As long as there is an option for the 360 users.

The new "Supreme Deity" is all about the console. Maybe not a huge problem, and "no console" is an idea not a guideline. Maybe we need a "Console-centric" (needs a better label) section? 22:30, 24 April 2007.

I think it's fine how it is. Besides, how do you set people on fire with the console, anyway? Tentacle 08:41, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

I too think the page is getting totally out of control... meaning, too long, with too many different types of "how to play" on it. There are minor gameplaying suggestions, major ones, ones where the console is needed (nay luck for us 360'ers) and ones where you don't need to console, and they are all mixed together. The load time is annoyingly slow too (perhaps that's just today). Nephele's point about the console making *anything* possible is a good one (kind of cool, though, grass is greener?). Part of the fun of games (any game) is learning to work within the rules (and restrictions). Take those away and the game loses some of the fun. Perhaps we could.... divide the page into three sections: Minor Roleplaying, Major Roleplaying, Console Required. Or maybe even make it three pages. Natpoor 13:33, July 11 2007 (EDT)

The page is now the third longest page on the site, and definitely large enough that its size alone is making edits difficult and taxing the server. Edits to this page actually have the potential to cripple the site because of one specific glitch in the wiki software related to large pages. So I would be very much in favour of trying to find a way to drastically reduce the size of this article.
One criterion that I have sporadically been using as justification to delete one or two entries is that the role-playing idea should have some connection to the elder scrolls universe. I've mainly used it to delete some particularly outlandish suggestions. But there are arguably a fair number of other entries on the page that could be deleted using that criterion, if other editors think it would be appropriate.
The other idea that is in the back of my mind for this page is to perhaps get most of the suggestions moved to user's individual pages. The same idea is currently being considered for Custom Classes, as discussed at length on the talk page. Most of this article basically consists of editors describing their favorite ways to play the game. In general, though, the aim of the wiki is to provide objective encyclopedia-style information; personal information is more appropriate on editors' user pages. In theory, there could be a category listing all the entries, so someone who is interested in browsing extensively for details and ideas could still look through all the information (I say "in theory" though because there are some problems in the details that haven't been worked out yet). The main roleplaying article could still contain general ideas about roleplaying, and maybe even a few examples (selected by a nomination or voting process).
Given the size and the lengthy, convoluted history of this page, trying to implement a change like that here would be a pretty gigantic task. But I'm inclined to think that it's really one of the few long term solutions. This page was effectively already split in half once (when it was separated from Oblivion:Things to Do When You're Bored|Things to do when you're Bored). Splitting it in three will just be a temporary measure, I think: two or three months from now, each of the split pages will again be oversized, disorganized and unusable. Some type of complete rethinking of the organization will be necessary if we want to find a way to really make this page useful and maintainable on a long term basis. --NepheleTalk 14:11, 11 July 2007 (EDT)
So, the only way to get the page under control is to... use the editor's iron fist of deletion! I think it is going to come to that. But, being a wiki and thus somewhat inclusive, actually reaching the point where it is done could be difficult (and who does it?). I'm half tempted to go on a mad deletion spree but have other things to do this afternoon... Let's see what others say, which, I know, could take a while. Natpoor 14:22, 11 July 2007 (EDT)
Whine all you like, but why? We could make the longest article into the shortest by putting a link to articles that are in groups - A-B, B-C, etc. Or "Class", "Land/Hunting" etc.... They do that on Wikipedia, we're Elder scrolls Wikipedia, why can't we? Then, we could have THOUSANDS, and nobody would give a rats ass. KarKing Jack 13:58, 9 November 2007 (EST)
Also, as an addition to that, it should be small small SMALL groups. Things beginning with A, things beginning with Q, etc. so we don't just split it into three, and its practically impossible to get super-big, and people will start complaining how small articles are ^_-. We should do that with the big mad "Mod Suggestions" page. — Unsigned comment by KarKing Jack (talkcontribs)
I actually took this idea a step even further towards the "small small groups" and proposed it at the community portal. The new idea is for each individual section to have its own subpage. First, I think it's better to go to the extreme than trying to come up with groups that will just individually end up becoming bloated. Second, any type of groups will be somewhat arbitrary; alphabetical, for example, won't help most readers to find an idea they're looking for because they won't know whether it's been named "assassin" or "stalker" or "ninja" or "hired assassin", etc. Finally, individual subpages adds new ways of organizing the information, such as Category:Oblivion-Roleplaying.
I've now started to implement this new organization. If anyone would like to help, feel free to jump in and start creating the subpages. Just move any section to a subpage, for example the "Acrobat" section was moved to Oblivion:Roleplaying/Acrobat. Add {{Roleplaying Header}} at the top of the new page to take care of all the formatting stuff. --NepheleTalk 17:20, 13 November 2007 (EST)

Guideline

I put some basic guidlines for contributions on Oblivion:Useful Spells and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to do the same with this page? If so what are some of your ideas? Pappasmurf 18:30, 16 February 2007 (EST)

Eh, no awnsers so I am doing it. (tomorrow) Pappasmurf 19:08, 16 February 2007 (EST)

Cleanup Ideas

I think that we should work on making this page more user friendly. Because of the large numbers of ideas I think that we should sub-catagorize the roleplaying ideas into relevent catagories. That way making the table of contense more useful. Any ideas? Pappasmurf 10:55, 16 February 2007 (EST)

As part of the beginning of the cleanup I started to alphabatize the page. Pappasmurf 12:02, 16 February 2007 (EST)

Well, I see a lot of repeated suggestions, like "Get a Job," which doesn't seem too different from each individual job described. This needs a lot of condensing, I think. And grammar and spelling work. Oi. Somercy 12:51, 16 February 2007 (EST)

I made it so that find a job was an ==idea== and the list of jobs are under that as ===idea=== Is this better? Pappasmurf 12:54, 16 February 2007 (EST)

I suppose...it's still a sprawling and unwieldly article, though. Somercy 12:56, 16 February 2007 (EST)
Which is why I need all the help I can get! :) Pappasmurf 12:59, 16 February 2007 (EST)
And I'm here, am I not? By the way, I'm Mercy. Never really got a chance to meet you yet. Somercy 13:03, 16 February 2007 (EST)
Since you asked for ideas, here are a few suggestions:
  • There are a fair number of entries that were moved over here from Oblivion:Things to Do When You're Bored|Things to Do When You're Bored that were not in the Roleplaying section. If you look at the previous version of that page ([1]) everything from "Watermelon Racing" down was a new section and not part of Roleplaying. Most of those sections should really be moved back to Thing to Do When You're Bored. "Watermelon Racing", "Sports", etc. are about individual activities that you can do with your character, rather than a complete persona that you can adopt and an overall way to play your character differently. "Horse Bandit" and "Death Collector" seem to me to be the only two of those sections that qualify as roleplaying.
  • Delete "Be a" or "Become a" from the start of any titles (e.g., just "Necromancer" instead of "Be a Necromancer")
  • Combine entries that are pretty much the same ("Horse Bandit" and "Horse Stealing")
  • Create an initial introductory section about the general idea behind roleplaying. Some of the ideas in "Simple Roleplaying" and "Go for a Walk" are really more about the overall concept of what it means to roleplay and apply no matter what specific role you want to take on.
Thanks for taking this on, Pappasmurf. From what you've been doing so far it's obvious that you really do want to clean up this page and turn it into a "proper" wiki page rather than just a random list of ideas. It's definitely a big task (enough to scare me away from doing anything here!) but anything you can do is appreciated. --Nephele 13:18, 16 February 2007 (EST)

Thanks for the ideas! I am sure I will do most (though more probably all :) ) of these things as soon as I finish alphabetizing them :) Pappasmurf 15:08, 16 February 2007 (EST)

Alright! I changed a bunch of stuff on this article and I am out of ideas. (exept a yet better intro) I also finished alphabetizing them. So, if anyone has any ideas relating to making this page better please let me know! :) Pappasmurf 19:08, 16 February 2007 (EST)

Hello, I just joined 1-2 days ago. I've been here every day for the last month, and I have to say that this seems like an important page to me. My edits so far are all on this page, expanding the archaeologist section and now I have created an introduction to roleplaying. I am bound to think of more ideas to make this page better, Papasmurf, so now I think this page will get much better in the coming weeks and months! CRACK-A-BACK 21:10, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

That combat roleplay section should not be in game changing roleplaying. Nevermind, I'll do it... CRACK-A-BACK 06:47, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Two Daedra Entries?

Hey Pappasmurf you seem like a good page tender, you or anybody have any ideas about the two somewhat-overlapping Daedra and Supreme Deity/Daedra entries? Can they be combined? They have the same focus but as far as I can tell very different ways of going about it.

Redundancy

I appreciate how large this article is now, so many different ideas are being submitted. However, it is starting to become a little redundant. People post something then dont bother to notice that something else is very similar( for example, "Hunter" and "Mountain Man/Trapper/". Im thinking of combining these two.). Other problems include people adding things to game-changing roleplaying that are really just simple things to do when bored. For example, piling tons of stuff into a boat in Anvil until it sinks is not "roleplaying". This should be moved to "simple roleplaying ideas" or maybe just deleted. OR, we should create a whole new article for simple, fun, things to do. There is also, I noticed, a article or being a "Water Deity" and then, at a completely different end, Fire Deity. Further, this rather new submission is very similar to the older "Pyromaniac" and isnt quite as good. Maybe we should just create one section called "Elemental Gods" and have those be subtitles? Anyway, I might end up deleting something later on. Dont revert it, I am trying to improve things. Oblivion alchemyskillz 20:10, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Okay, I'm gonna say this again, since I guess you didn't see it the first time: the point of a wiki is that anyone can edit anything for the overall improvement of the site. If someone thinks an edit is unjustified or of low quality, they have every right to revert it. No one "owns" anything on this site; the closest you get to that is your user page.
Anyway, that aside, I agree on some of the issues you brought up. Thankfully, we have just the thing for it Oblivion:Things to Do When You're Bored|right here. Feel free to move things there at your leisure, as long as it conforms to the guidelines of the page. Combining the elemental deities also sounds like a good idea. However, keep in mind that your opinion of the quality of a roleplaying idea is just that--your opinion. As long as the entry actually is a roleplaying idea and is not redundant or obscene, it can be included.
I understand that you're trying to make improvements and the intent is certainly appreciated. I might suggest that discussing more drastic changes on the talk page is a good habit to get into. Usually, if site content has been around for a while, it means that a lot of people approve of it being there. Just something to keep in mind ;). --Eshe 22:55, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Cleaning up - Another Attempt

I've posted a section over at the Community Portal on one possible idea for cleanup up this page. Please take a look and let me have your feedback or ideas. Apologies for spamming this around but I felt it should appear on the talk pages of all the articles I mentioned in the post. --RpehTalk 06:23, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

Well done!

Just wanted to say well done for cleaning that pile of crap up! it looks a LOT better now though. :) Good job too all who did that.

How Do I Add A Page?

First of all, well done with the clean up. However I'am now stumped on how to add a page for character type roleplaying. Could someone enlighten me please?Bambobo 06:51, 25 January 2008 (EST)

The easiest way is to edit the main Roleplaying page to include a link, using Show Preview to produce a red link to your new page, then simply click on the link create the new entry. So, add something like this to Roleplaying: [[/My Idea|My Idea]] in the right place in the list (alphabetized, please!) then click show preview and click the link you've just created. When you have saved your new idea page, save the Roleplaying page to add the link. –RpehTCE 08:15, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Thanks.Bambobo 04:25, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Garret, Master Thief

One of my favourite games is Thief: Deadly Shadows, and you play as Garret, a master thief. My idea of roleplaying in Oblivion is simple Thief DS: Make a character named Garret, Make a custom class called Master Thief. Make it similar to thief class, but change Speechcraft to Blade (Garret has a blade), then buy clothes that reminds Garret's clothing and a dagger (or short sword) and a steel bow. Don't let anyone see you (your'e master thief, remember?) make your own quests for example: Break into Umbacano manor, Do not kill unarmed people, Steal items worth 1000 gold (or more), steal Umbacano's chalice (a silver goblet), exit manor and don't let anyone see you. I'm not just sure should someone try it out, at least I haven't fulfilled it yet.Flange9k

Removed comments on Robin Hood

  • Let the waterfront be your town to protect, keep the guards out(pretend they are tax collecters) by placing them through a humiliating fall into the sea? --Does anyone know what that means?
  • You have to live, dont you? Go to the Inn, have something good to eat and have a drink or two, treat yourself. -- Discussed in simple role-playing, duplicate comment.
  • Raid bandit camps, kill the bandits and loot everything, and sleep there for the night. --Changed 'tonight' to ' for the night', better Grammar.

If anyone wants to revise it or explain why it should be keep in the role-playing section speak.--Western3589 10:00, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Classed as roleplaying?

I'm thinking of addind a new "classes" roleplaying idea but I dont think its very descriptive. The basic idea is to roleplay your class from the Classes page. For example "Barbarian". The player could just live in the wild in camps or at sea. The only problem is that it may not be very discriptive. Help please.--Bambobo 19:31, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

Comment moved from article

This comment I have moved as I couldn't make useful sense of it while maintaining the appropriate style, but it might contain redeemable content. Editors are welcome to rephrase this into a useful "thing to do when you're bored" and replace it in the article. --Actreal 07:16, 29 September 2006 (EDT)

All things deadly and Nasty
Going on a huge duengeon clear-out and collecting all the great loot to fund the clear-outs quite fun once at higher levels and after cleaning out the deungeon and traps move the bodies to make a pile or put them in stupid poses like in Bruma i have a guard in his Off-duty clothes on the stairs as the cross of jesus theres also i nice little glith that some people in Buma what murdered you get a bounty of a assult.

Sailor/Smuggler comments

I moved the following two commonts from the article:

You can allso be sailor. (From Jobs for Anvil)
You can allso smuggle skooma, ale, weapons and other stuff to your inmates and get the payment through console. (From Things to Do in Jail)

I don't understand how either one is supposed to work. The first one would require a boat that one could sail, which do not exist (without mods). The second would require inmates, and very few exist (most who do are quest NPCs).

If someone makes more sense of them, they can be moved back. --Dylnuge(talk · edits) 14:28, 23 January 2007 (EST)

made some sense of the sailor one, not sure if its good. Irishguy42 13:04, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Well Iríshguy your is atleast better than mine ^_^ I should maybe have written what I meant by being sailor. But thanks for improving it. - Fireresistance vs Flaming.

I was thinking...maybe for the Arch-mage role-playing, maybe someone could work in the Frostcraig Spire plug-in? Irishguy42 10:24, 28 January 2007 (EST)


Where is the water at Hidden Camp?

Under the "Mountain Man" section, it says that Hidden Camp has perfect place to swim 'a few steps north'. I went to Hidden Camp, but couldn't find any water at all. Is this info incorrect, or am I missing something? Dio 225

There is no water anywhere by Hidden Camp, if you go to Wind Range camp, however, the water features the article describes are there. A waterfall, a lake it is very nice. I think we have just got a simple mix up of camps.

Connect with Fanfiction?

It seems there are a good few folks here interested in roleplaying. For some, a natural extension of roleplaying is writing down what a character has done, with the added bonus of freedom of the sort of creative license the game's mechanics simply don't allow. We have a fanfiction section, albeit a small one - perhaps we can link the two pages to each other with a small suggestion to help bridge the gap. --Kementari 19:45, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

Discuss:Delete the Conclusion?

It is far too small to make any sense. It fits awkwardly in at the end of the list of ideas, and doesn't really add anything substantial, everything that is said there is said better in the opening. I think we should just get rid of it. Any other ideas from you people? Oblivion alchemyskillz 21:31, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

I think it makes more sense to incorporate it into the introduction than to completely remove it. Remember, short and concise is usually better...small sections aren't always inferior sections. On that note, most of your contributions have been very wordy and often repetetive--try to figure out ways to say what you mean in less space. People are more likely to read and use your work if you do ;). --Eshe 22:38, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
I agree with Eshe it should be re-phrased and put into the the introduction of the article. --western3589 4:58, 3 November 2007 (EST)

Delete "Undercover Blade"

There is already a separate section, much larger and better written called "Blade". It already includes comments on going undercover, wearing a separate set of undercover clothes, etc. Undercover Blade was something somebody thought up on a whim and doesn't make much sense to someone reading it. It doesn't give the impression of a complete roleplay opportunity. On a separate note, I think we need to create a separate third section after Character Type Roleplaying called something like "Pastimes". Entries such as "Bone Collector" and "Junk Boat in Anvil" can be moved down there. These are good ideas and good entries, but they don't fit into the current categories.

Deleting "Undercover Blade" was fine, since it was redundant. However, I don't really think we need a "pastimes" section, since we have Oblivion:Things to Do When You're Bored|this page, which is more suitable for that. Feel free to move appropriate ideas to that page. Remember, roleplaying ideas do not have to be "complete"--part of the fun of roleplaying is coming up with ideas on your own! --Eshe 17:27, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

Can anyone edit these ideas?

Are people just allowed to delete bits of what you have put on the rolplaying page, because i was the guy who wrote all the things for "Blade" which i origionally called "Life of a blade" but the title change doesnt matter, its the fact that someone has deleted most of what i put down for their ideas, this isnt a major problem but im just curious. — Unsigned comment by Angrod Ar-Feineil (talkcontribs)

In a word: yes. The idea behind a wiki is that it allows anyone to edit anything, which generally allows for a pretty awesome knowledge database. If I had to guess (since I don't actually know), I'd say what happened in your case was what we call "cleanup." Sometimes, articles or sections of articles just need to be more concise and streamlined. It's certainly not a personal attack when someone edits something you wrote--it's likely to happen to everyone who contributes. If you feel that something that was deleted from your entry was important, you have every right to add it back in. Just try to keep things as concise and well-formatted as possible, and keep contributing! ;) --Eshe 12:55, 15 July 2007 (EDT)
Ah ok dude, well now i know, i was just wondering because in a way its dissapointing in seeing your ideas perish hehe. Well thanks fo telling me, next time i contribute ill make sure its good enough to stay there! --Angrod Ar-Feineil 21:45, 15 July 2007 (EDT)


Images

Well, I guess I should bring this up before this project goes much further. I'm generally a fan of using images in articles, particularly since we do have so many good ones, but is it really necessary on this page? In my opinion, the page is long enough as it is, and we really don't need any extra bits in there to slow things down or take up space. Especially in the case of pages like this, I think a link to related pages is enough. If people need to see what something looks like, they can go to the related pages and get more ideas. Does anyone else have an opinion about this? --Eshetalk17:13, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

I have simply added the images because this specific article has no colour and is too boring. It needed an injection of colour, so I decided to add pictures. Sorry if this has upset you, but I am sick and tired of long passages of text. I spent a long time trying to improve the page and all I get is criticism for trying to make the article look nice.: --78.145.15.95 13:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I can understand why you're adding images--and don't get me wrong, it does look a bit less boring--but my point is that I don't really think it's necessary. This is a pretty highly used page and not everyone will be able to load it very easily as it gets larger. I'm not trying to criticize your work, I'm just suggesting that maybe in the case of this article, the images aren't needed. --Eshetalk13:55, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
Sorry. I was a bit hasty there. In the heat of the moment, that was. I apologize. You are entirely selfless, and I appreciate that. Feel free to delete the images if you so wish. Just not Syl's picture or the King of Worms' picture. They're my favorites!: --78.145.15.95 03:48, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
Well, I won't touch it without consent from other community members, so it looks like things are staying as they are ;). Thanks for your contributions, by the way! --Eshetalk15:12, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

You're welcome! By the way, on your own page, it says you're a Muggle. What does that mean? --78.145.15.95 15:33, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Linking

Some one add the link to the category version set of role playing sub pages until all the links are added to the original page, I don't know how to make a big noticeable sign at the top of the page. This is the link Category:Oblivion-Roleplaying Western3589 18:30, 13 November 2007 (EST)

Well, all the links have already been added ;) But having a category link seems useful, so I added one at the start of the Character Type Roleplaying section. FYI, to add a link to a category (instead of adding the page into the category), you need to start the category link with ":". So it needs to be [[:Category:Oblivion-Roleplaying]] instead of [[Category:Oblivion-Roleplaying]]. One of those bizarre little wiki quirks ;) (See UESPWiki:Categories for more info). --NepheleTalk 21:21, 13 November 2007 (EST)

Why was mine deleted?

I made a roleplaying topic about being the count of bravil, and it was deleted. Why is this? — Unsigned comment by 86.42.199.127 (talk)

Well, I didn't have anything to do with deleting what you posted, but perhaps it was deleted because the position of "Count of Bravil" is already taken? IWon'tFightUndead 18:17, 11 February 2008 (EST)
The link you added to this article was deleted because your article was proposed for deletion. In accordance with our deletion policy, however, the article has not yet been deleted. It still exists at [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Count of Bravil]] where you can see for yourself why the article has been proposed for deletion; there was also some discussion at [[Oblivion talk:Roleplaying/Count of Bravil]]. Basically, it seems like nobody thinks that the roleplaying suggestion was useful or even accurate, and I'm inclined to agree. --NepheleTalk 01:17, 12 February 2008 (EST)

I listed a good few thing there other then slaughter. The people in the castle can be killed. And there is a Fairly nice bed you can sleep in. And to be fair, there is a few other ones that have no fun role-playing value that were suggested, but I will not name them as I don't want to offend anyone. I hope I dont sound like I am ranting, or anything like that, I just though it would be a good thing to roleplay, and I cannot see how you could justify deleting it, again, I am not ranting.

Perhaps you should read your suggestions before posting them on the roleplay section. I myself have made suggestions which seemed perfectly reasonable at the time, but have been proposed for deletion. On returning to the article I realized why it was deleted, and wondered what was going through my head while writing it. Show it to your friends before posting it. An idea might be to write it down somewhere and come back to it the next day. If it still doesn't look stupid, give it a go.
--Draenoch 08:48, 10 July 2008 (EDT)



[on the subject of deletion i made a custom class for RP which was adventurer and it was deleted when i went back on....username:luke.h]

It's still there at Oblivion:Roleplaying/Adventurer, but it has been proposed for deletion - which is why it's no longer linked. The reason it's up for deletion is that it doesn't contain anything distinctive enough to warrant its own roleplay. –RpehTCE 02:09, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

Passwall Resident

Just an idea that I throw out there, just in case that if anyone would like to expand on that. --Kunz 506 21:56, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Reclaim hackdirt!

A RP idea i had. After rescuing Dar-Ma from hackdirt, return to the town and wipe out everyone but Jiv Hiriel (he helps you during the quest, don't hurt him!). After that's done, go into the buildings and tidy them up (be sure to hide/destroy the bible of the deep ones!). you now have your own private settlement! Get some followers like the adoring fan, or the mage's guild apprentice, and put them in various buildings to be "residents" or have them be visitors to your town. Perhaps you are a travelling merchant who has been lost for days, and discovers the abandoned settlement? the possibilities with your new hackdirt are practically endless!

-m'aiq the liar 19:37, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

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