Lore talk:Howling Cave

Not necessarily the same location

I don't see why Howling Caves is 100% for sure Howling Cave. Aside from the name (which is descriptive, and several locations could be named this), there doesn't really seem to be any actual evidence they are connected. Both are presumably in Cyrodiil, but we don't really know that for sure either. I don't think we should be assuming these things. This is somewhat the same thing that happened with Varlasel, where we know for sure it isn't the same location that has appeared before, because SEVERAL Varlasel locations have appeared previously, since it's a generic name. I think we should restrict this page to information about the Howling Cave in Oblivion/ESO and remove the information about blades. Jeancey (talk) 23:45, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

I think it's important to note the possibility that this is the same location. The difference between cave/caves is not a valid distinction to make; they are essentially identically named (see Earthtear Caverns vs Earthtear Cavern). Unlike Varlasel, we know of no other Howling Cave. The answer as always is to make the uncertainty clear to readers, rather than unnecessarily deleting information from pages. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:55, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

When I created this page I didn't add the Blades info off the name alone. I was hesitant to outright confirm them as the same place, so I checked the Oblivion location and the path matches up in some ways (albeit not identically, due to the nature of the games) and the presence of undead and necromancers in both was mentioned in some dialogue as I recall. Don't know if the Oblivion one has Ironwood trees, I didn't check that detail. This quest is also grouped concurrently with The Ruins of Niryastare quest, which also traveled to a Cyrodiil location previously seen in Oblivion, and I would find it very hard to not say those are the same place given their names, lightly similar design, and reputation for the undead for example.

As well as what with Legoless said, the name difference is only between "Howling Cave" and "Howling Caves", and if the Earthtear scenario is any indication it would be silly to dismiss it over a change in plurality. Varlasel is different due to the multiple locations, hence why I made Lore:Varlasel as a disambig to dispel the notion that the Blades one went to the Doomcrag, as many people believed from seeing Online:Varlasel. I know there's some panic of where to say the location of Rivercrest is, but the location of Howling Cave(s) doesn't tell us anything about where the town is, so if that's any concern to anyone they should know its not relevant. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 17:23, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I think it's slightly different. I think "The Howling Caves" and "Howling Cave" are more different than just the plural. But I think my main issue is that the article basically says "These are 100% the same" and that's much more certain of a stance than I think I'm comfortable with. I think it would be better to be more qualified in our presentation. Jeancey (talk) 17:41, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

How about the current version of the page? I've removed any statement of fact that The Howling Caves is Howling Cave and left it more ambiguous. —⁠Legoless (talk) 17:51, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I think the new version of the page looks pretty good and describes all the info pretty well. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 17:52, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I hadn't seen that yet. That is better, yes. Jeancey (talk) 17:54, 5 August 2020 (UTC)