Lore talk:Bestiary G

Giants

Maybe we should edit the giant part as they are also going to be in Skyrim.— Unsigned comment by POMC S117 (talk • contribs) at 23:45 on 3 August 2011

We can do that after the game's released.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 23:46, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, our stand on this issue is to not include Skyrim lore until it actually becomes lore. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 01:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

(←) I think we should switch the giants from the bestiary to the races section. Why? They are shown to be more intelligent than a "animal" even if they are not playable, if their is a reason why this hasn't happened yet please respond, thank you.Sheeprin (talk) 00:57, 2 March 2014 (GMT)

Lots of the creatures listed in the bestiary have primitive cultures or limited intelligence. Half the entries on this page alone have similar intelligence to giants: Gatekeeper, Goblin, Gremlin, Grummite. Even the Golden Saints are listed here, and they're already included in the race section. Giants don't have black souls or any other feature to distinguish them from similar primitive species. —Legoless (talk) 02:46, 2 March 2014 (GMT)

Glenmoril Witch

I've removed the entry on Glenmoril Witches. It just so happens that the members of the coven in Skyrim are Hagravens. The Glenmoril Wyrd is also known to include vampires and regular humans. Thus, the regular Hagraven entry will suffice. --Legoless 00:50, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Gaints vs. Frost Giants

To understand this recent reversion, please see this discussion. In lore terms, Frost Giants are quite distinct from regular Giants, even if Skyrim got lazy with the reskins. —Legoless (talk) 13:22, 15 September 2012 (GMT)

guar mounts

Does the lore have guar mounts in it? 69.14.13.111 14:22, 5 June 2014 (GMT)

They have them as pack animals mainly, but in Morrowind (which is the game Guar were in previously), there were no mounts at all due to technical restrictions of the game. Thus, we didn't see if anyone road anything. It stands to reason that if they were using them for pack animals, SOMEONE used them as mounts. Jeancey (talk) 14:23, 5 June 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for answering! 69.14.13.111 14:56, 5 June 2014 (GMT)

Gryphons

I've used the spelling "Gryphon" as the main one since that seems to be the one ESO will use, and was the spelling used for their feathers in Daggerfall. All info on its entry comes from stuff already in the games, nothing new from ESO Summerset.

The statues are also definitely griffins from the Thieves Guild DLC, so I've added File:ON-interior-Al-Danobia Crypt.jpg to the page, which shows two statues. Jimeee believes the statues represent Tu'Whacca's ibis, as per the Ra Gada Crafting Motif, but while the statue of that looks extremely similar, it is not the same. That statue can be obtained by players and looks like this, described as being a lion ibis, not a griffin one. The griffin statue is also in-game, listed on the Courtyard Furnishings page, but looks slightly different. I can't find an image of it on the wiki or anywhere else at the moment, but its furniture icon depicts it with different no crown and very different legs, the same legs that are seen in the crypt, so I've come to the conclusion that the statues are definitely griffins. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 21:16, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Its a tenuous claim that because stylized statues look somewhat like Gryphons, that there is no question that they are Gryphons.

First, look at the existing Yokudan lore regarding the ibis:

• Ra Gada spellcasters often tipped their staves will finials in the shape of Tu'whacca's sacred ibis
• Aggressively avian in design, the bow of the Ra Gada is faced with two brazen ibis-heads
• Alabaster statuette of a sacred ibis, hinged at the hips, said to lean forward to give a favorable answer to a question.
• Elaborate, oversized ibis-head mask with emerald eyes, worn by a priest of Tu'whacca in the March of Wisdom.

There is no question that the ibis holds significance in the Yokudan (specifically Tavan) culture. Especially in burial grounds as its connected to Tu'whacca. Context is very important here. What sort of statuary is more likely to be found in a grand Yokudan burial chamber: a random winged creature from Summerset or the actual Yokudan caretaker of the afterlife?

A door from the same tomb shows the sacred ibis in human form (on the left) and below it the same seated ibis that appear as vast statues in the chamber. What's the relationship between the human ibis and a griffon? Or does it make more sense that they are both Tu'whacca's ibis?

Next if we look at the icon image that your claim seems to be based upon: Yokudan Sitting Griffin Statue. A developer item name for a house decoration used for the purposes of lore is hit or miss. If this item was called "Yokudan Sitting Gryphon Statue", I'd say you are correct - but it uses the old spelling which I speculate is an oversight. The devs needed to call it something and it sorta looks like a griffin - remember this item was probably named way before the devs even came up with the new Gryphons.

The above icon looks like this seated statue. If it was standing, it looks very similar (not identical) to the "lion ibis" statue here. However, who says statues of the same entity need to look identical? These are highly stylized statues in the vein of ancient Egyptian art - famous for using the seated lion/cat motif (Sphinx, etc). Its no surprise at all that the ibis appears as such. The fact one statue doesn't have a crown and slightly different legs is not really an argument.

If we take dev item names literally, you can argue that the item: Ra Gada Guardian Statue, Winged Bull.jpg is a reference to Morihaus (the winged-bull), and that the Yokudans built statues of him too! Was Oblivion:Akaviri Commander Mishaxhi an Imperial because the CK calls him so? Of course not.

Ultimately, your strongest argument is an icon image name vs the wealth of lore and context that contradicts it. That's nowhere near enough evidence to make such a claim, so I'll remove the Yokudan note again unless there is something more substantial. --Jimeee (talk) 13:17, 9 April 2018 (UTC)