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Matthias Draconis[edit]

Hey Dwarfmp! I just took an in-game look at Matthias, and it seems like his schedule could be just a bit more detailed; according to my observations, he seems to have three(?) random locations he patrols during his workday between 5am and 6pm. Either he is taking a clockwise walk around the entire Manor (exterior), takes a stroll in the basement or simply stands outside the front door. Could you double-check the CS, so we can include these details? Thanks in advance! --Krusty 15:23, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

He has 7 patrol packages (6 from 6am to 8pm; 1 from 5am to 8pm), and I just figured it was randomly determined which package he uses, as they are all overlapping. Now though, as I took a look at their names, they seem to be linked, although I can only see that through their names (I still don't know well how these packages work together). 4 of the packages consist of him patrolling somewhere outside the manor, 2 in the basement and 1 in the dining hall. Now, the packages are all named 'ICUmbacanoPatrolDay...', the one starting from 5am is called 'ICUmbacanoPatrolDayStartPatrol'. The links I can see are e.g. 'ICUmbacanoPatrolDayNToGarden', 'ICUmbacanoPatrolDayGardenToS', 'ICUmbacanoPatrolDaySToDiningRoom', etc., from which I can assume one follows the other one, though all of them last 12 hours (the starter package 13). What I'm trying to say is: I don't know what he finally ends up doing. Maybe someone can check out what he does for a couple of days, see if he does the same thing over and over again, though you probably did that already and you've told me about that just now. ~ Dwarfmp 20:32, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Uff, the usual chaos. I'll try to give him a close look, but in theory we don't need to mention all seven packages, just boil it down to the most important ones and make a good description. A very quick second (or is it third?) glance gives the impression that he ALWAYS visits the garden behind Umbacano Manor when he takes the clockwise stroll around the building; otherwise, it seems very random. The 5am thing sounds a bit fishy, so I'll be back with more later on. --Krusty 21:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Yup, the 5am package is the one causing him to stand still outside the front door to Umbacano Manor; I have no idea why and it is not really important, unless we have a bug on our hands (he starts patrolling at 6am). Other than that, a possible schedule description should probably mention his "routine"; He either patrols outside by alking around the Manor, taking a detour into the garden - or patrols the inetrior of the Manor on either the ground floor or in the basement. That should cover it, I think. --Krusty 20:13, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes a short description of his patrols like you said just then would be a nice addition. The 5am package is i.m.o. defenitely not a bug, guards stand in front of a gate or door all the time, I don't see why private guards couldn't. ~ Dwarfmp 20:33, 23 January 2011 (UTC)


Hey! Just wanted to clarify the confusion on the FA-page - I meant that the article will not qualify as a FA while the Peer Review-tag present; my response was to rpeh because he specifically asked the admin's not to count any votes yet. And no, I can't do the "second check" as I am on the PS3. --Krusty 06:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh ok, sorry :) Well I guess I'll just work on it myself then, no problem. I'll try to keep things as compact as possible. ~ Dwarfmp 12:46, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

SI work[edit]

Hey there, good work on images and SI in general (although the DS images are a bit too dark, methinks)... Just a request: if you upload a new image or write up a SI NPC or place could you please cross it out here so we can keep a track of everything? If you're replacing an SI image I took, then could you delete it from here? Thanks :) --SerCenKing Talk 16:29, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


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Great work on the images. You've uploaded some really, really good ones lately and made me feel very jealous! ;) rpeh •TCE 22:07, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Those new images are pretty good, I especially like the ones of Hears-Voices-In-The-Air and Tsarrina. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 23:44, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Greenmote Silo[edit]

Hey Dwarfmp. I have now checked all the dialogue of the Guards in Greenmote Silo, and none of it is unique – before or after finishing the Main quest. Seems like the only thing you need to correct is the description itself, as the WILL throw you out, even if you are Sheogorath. --Krusty 23:47, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for checking that out. I will address that when I get to update the page with the new statboxes. On the subject, I don't really see what you mean with the floating images. Now I'm wondering what to do, as no-one seems to have said anything or done anything about it since then. Perhaps I'm a bit impatient, but what to do from here? You claim it isn't right like this, and I wouldn't know what else to do, so it's just going to stay in my sandbox like that. ~ Dwarfmp 02:31, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Personally, I would contact either Rpeh or SerCenKing about the (minor) layout issues and the Peer Review. And don't get stressed over this; sometimes it just takes a bit longer for people to find time to do larger tasks. The layout issue only concern the first part of the page (example), where the images flows above the now-shortened table. As I don't know how to solve this, asking editors more experienced with tables is the way to go. --Krusty 07:32, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Does this make any sense?[edit]

Hey there! I was just experimenting with some Golden Saints layout - simply to show you what I mean. While I can't figure out how to make the table float next to the image, here is my idea. It will save a lot of space on the finished page and I think it will be really cool once somebody manages to make the table. Does my primitive suggestion make any sense? :) --Krusty 22:44, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Woa, that looks... original. But let me get back to your floating issue first. I assume you want the the bottom from the images to be on the same line as the bottom of the stat boxes? Because the TOP from the image being on the same line as the TOP from the stat box is easy to achieve, but I figured you'd know how to do that anyway. I've tried to do the former by putting the image link in the text itself, which isn't very easy to navigate, but that way it is achievable, only it creates a new paragraph for the text that comes after that link. So I guess that's not an option. Those open stat boxes may look alright if the text in it is aligned to the center of the box it's in, and short stat numbers like health would be preferred to be right under the "health" title for example, if you know what I mean, as it's hard to explain. ~ Dwarfmp 23:45, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, basically, I simply want the image and the entire stat table (the very same ones as in your current Sandbox) to be "side-by-side" so it can save space; it should be possible b ut I was/am waay too tired to work it out now. Feel free to tweak the sandbox, if you know how to do it. --Krusty 02:02, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
All done! Whether or not you like the idea, at least that is what I meant. It's a pretty easy tweak and will make the page much "shorter" without losing any information; I tried setting up one with the image on the left and another with the image on the right. --Krusty 07:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
There's one thing I can't stand and seem to be able to fix: the text isn't in the center. I don't actually see a difference between adding the floatstyle and simply changing the width, and the latter still makes the text centered. Or am I wrong? ~ Dwarfmp 13:14, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, it's the best solution I can come up with, and I would really like this to see this problem solved - I'm not really sure what you mean by "centered" - do you mean the text inside the tables? Also, no matter how small I make my browser (or how wide I make the table), your sandbox will always have the images "floating" above nothing, starting when the table ends. Once again, I might be the wrong person to ask. --Krusty 20:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes I mean the text inside the boxes, inventory aside. It's mostly irritating when it comes to the health and magicka stats. I still don't really get that floating thing you hate, but it's important that it looks "perfect", as in being improved as much as possible. So if you think it doesn't look right, then I guess it just doesn't look right. I would indeed like it to be finished, as we've got something good here, but we can't launch it. Not that I know well how to format these things, but not understanding the problem makes it difficult for me to fix. Especially if you don't know how to fix it (with the text centered). I don't think trying to explain it will be to any more use. So I'll just try contacting rpeh and see what he thinks of all this. So basically, what we want is a non-image floating, and text centered table page. ~ Dwarfmp 01:51, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
EDIT:Ok I just saw rpeh's edit on the featured articles page, which means we have to find someone else, which means I have no idea who as I don't know anyone who is particularly skilled in formatting these things. I guess I'll put an extra comment there, I wouldn't know what else to do. ~ Dwarfmp 01:56, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

() I'm not sure if this is what you mean, I think there is a problem with this line:

{| class=wikitable style="float:left"|"text-align: center; width: 80%;"
wich should look more like:
{| class=wikitable style="float:left; text-align: center; width: 80%;" --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 06:47, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
The reason for wich the Krusty's Sandbox puts the images in the same line and the text is not centered is that text-align and width are being ignored due to syntax error. The width: 80% is what makes the images go to a new line, I have placed here my version, I think it looks exactly like Krusty's but with the text centered. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 07:46, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Good work, Wizy. Only thing wrong with your Sandbox example is that the image(s) will change place depending on your browser size, settings ect ect, making the image jump "on top" of the table if you make your browser window smaller - that is why I used the float-table. I'll try and have another go later today. --Krusty 07:56, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Back to square one. I have fixed that, but then again the text mysteriously is aligned to the left. The only solution I can think of is adding style="text-align: center"| to every cell, but that would increase the code size too much. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 08:31, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
There, adding align="center" to rows, I think it is a valid solution. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 17:10, 27 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi, great work on Thadon! Can I just point out, just to be annoying, that in this image Thadon is somehow missing his ..... ;) Not that's a big deal, it just looks a bit funny XD --SerCenKing Talk 19:56, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh damn it, I didn't even see that. Crap, how did that happen? I hope that doesn't happen every time, I thought that one was just perfect. Hope I'll be able to retake it like that. ~ Dwarfmp 20:05, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
The throne always seems to come out, so to speak. Sad sad sad, very sad indeed. So I've uploaded one taken from a different angle, where that collision problem isn't visible. I've taken it from the left, as he represents the left side from the realm, I thought it would be symbolic etc etc. ~ Dwarfmp 21:24, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I really liked the first image too but you've done the usual beautiful job on the second ;) Looking forward to your Thadon page! --SerCenKing Talk 21:47, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
It's actually finished already :P, I didn't leave anything out, right? ~ Dwarfmp 21:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
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You really deserve it. I've just gone through the page, but the changes were mostly editorial. A fantastic article! After the Saints and Thadon, we'll have to find you another massive Mania-related page to do ;) --SerCenKing Talk 22:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey thanks. I could swear it was arguEing, thanks for pointing that out there. I tried to use the style from the featered Janus Hassildor page. Syl would be the next NPC in line, seeing we've got a base through Thadon. I don't feel particularly bonded to Mania though, as I may have given impression. Something I did realize just now is that Sheogorath himself is left quite untouched. It is as if it has been waiting for me! Cheese for no-one! ~ Dwarfmp 22:27, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Execution dialogue[edit]

Syl's only line of dialogue is:

You've confessed to attempting to kill me, I understand. The penalty for this treachery is death, and is to be carried out immediately.

Poor Muurine never gets to say anything, before Syl kills her. --Krusty 23:51, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Odd, isn't there anything like a confession from Muurine etc.? I thought there was... ~ Dwarfmp 00:06, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
As far as I can tell from the game, no - just took another in-game look, and the above line is the only thing heard before Syl hits the switch. By the way, I have saves all over Syl's "journey", so just holler if there is anything I can help with. --Krusty 00:12, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
So she just enters the room, and she says: "You have confessed to the crime blablabla"' and pulls the trigger? Or is there any other dialogue from muurine to herdir or vice versa? I'm having a hard time with this, I've found a lot of dialogue from suspects as well, directed to Herdir during an interrogation, which I just can't recall being said, as the player is the one who interrogates them. Hmmm, would you happen to know anything about that, if I may ask? ~ Dwarfmp 00:18, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Haha, funny you should mention it; I went through Herdir's dialogue today and found the exact same thing - seems like he was supposed to play a much bigger part of the interrogation than what ended up in the game, basically resulting in tons of recorded, but unused, dialogue. And yes, the only time Muurine confesses is when you confront her earlier in the quest, which should probably be used as rumors on the page. The other active members of the conspiracy had similar opinions on Syl, based on her relationship with Thadon - at least I remember it that way. --Krusty 00:26, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

A bit of help please?[edit]

Hey Dwarfmp! I have noticed the ton of great images you have uploaded recently, and I was wondering if you could help me out. For the longest time, I’ve had Relmyna Verenim floating around in my Sandbox. The page is nearly complete, but it is HUGE. Since you have been dealing with both Syl and Thadon, I’m pretty sure you understand what I mean when I say that the page needs a whole lot of images to prevent it from the “wall-of-text”-syndrome. Basically, what I was wondering is this; could you snap some bizarre and horrible images of this great NPC? Basically, I’m unhappy with each and every one of the images I currently use, mostly because they are taken from other pages, and I’ll let you decide how to decorate the page, in case you are interested in helping out. There should be plenty of bizarre situations related to Relmyna and I think all sections need an image of some sort (even an image of Sheogorath with the text “She’ll do anything for me, that little minx” or something). Also, I think the square image should be replaced as well; it is too happy, too “bright” – and it should be from Xaselm, her true home. I really cross my fingers that you will help me out, as I have worked very hard on the page – and it is about time I launch it. All the best! --Krusty 21:00, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing, I can take some shots. Although, I think you have quite a few already. I can't think of any good new images I could take right now, other than retaking the ones you have already, cause I think their quality is rather low, no offense. I'll see what she does and then I'll upload some good ones. ~ Dwarfmp 23:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! Seems like I will be able to launch this page after all! Okay, for a bit of inspiration, here's a few ideas;
  • If we replace the square image with a shot of her inside Xaselm, the page will need a new 4:3 image of her in her inside The Wastrel's Purse in Passwall, looking less happy; a new shot of the blood-soaked room would be great as well, as the colors are really weird.
  • Maybe a new image of Nanette Don in Passwall; this old one is a bit small and I even made it smaller when I made the 4:3 version.
  • Two shots of Relmyna "busy" torturing her victims - I would like to get rid of the Victim orc, as it doesn't tell much of a story - it belongs on the Victim page where it is much more relevant.
  • A shot of her when you meet her at the beginning of Rebuilding the Gatekeeper; she will be positioned between two mutilated "failed experiments" with a great shot to be had if you position yourself between the bodies.
  • If possible, a shot of the Exalted Pain spell - it looks really powerful when she finally cast it, so even if it's going to be an acid-flash of an image, I think it would be great.
  • A new shot of her performing the ceremony near the Cistern of Substantiation - the current image is good, but is not 4:3 and can't be reformatted without ruining the composition.
Hope that helped a bit - my goal is to make a bizarre and dark page, as she is seriously disturbed in a good way! Good luck! --Krusty 08:21, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh, and I added you to the contributors in my Sandbox - feel free to add the images right away if you want! :) --Krusty 10:22, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Sorry about it taking so long, but I had to create a new character to get back to the point where Relmyna is in Passwall. But the biggest problem was the program I use to edit images suddenly couldn't open anymore files. I tried to reinstall it but that didn't work, then I downloaded another program, but that didn't turn out well in the end. Anyway, I fixed it, somehow. So after I get up, tomorrow, or whenever that is, I'll be working on the snapshots. I've seen some cool animations with the Gatekeeper trying something what looks like hugging Relmyna, while she cries and pushes him away. ~ Dwarfmp 16:21, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
EDIT:Oh and if I upload an image which is too dark, or not right in any way, well just tell me cause I can't always seem to... see that ~ Dwarfmp 16:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Dwarfmp - I more grateful about this than you think! Looking forward to some great images on that hellish page! :) --Krusty 17:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Again, sorry it's taking so long, I was stuck with Nanette Don, she wouldn't read etc. Now I'm about to take pictures during rebuilding the Gatekeeper. However, I may have a bit of a problem with the victim-torturing shots. If you meant having the victims in the picture, which I'm pretty sure you did, I'm going to need to temporarily replace meshes and textures with the original ones. Because as of now, they're pretty... naked :D ~ Dwarfmp 17:38, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
No worries, we have all the time in the world; well, almost. Looking forward to more images - the pics of Nanette are great! Oh, and don't necessarily follow my suggestions - but the victims are a bit important because I list all her torture dialogue. :) --Krusty 19:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Ok so, I guess I'll replace those files tomorrow, shouldn't be much of trouble. I noticed that Relmyna doesn't stand in between the failed experiments, but rather next to them at the side of the room, looking at the one she's standing next to and usually getting her book to write in it. I can manage to push her in between, but she'll constantly try to walk back, so it'll be difficult to take a good screenshot of her standing still, looking at you with a frown. Unless I make a mod to let her stand there... But what I really wanted to say before this page is launched, are the following. Firstly, I've seen a number of pages showing responses of the NPC after you said something, also true in this case. I find it strange, incomplete and unclear to sum them up without actually adding the line you say to the NPC. Adding those lines will make the page longer, true, but it's much clearer to add those lines, to see when the NPC says a certain line, and what makes them say what they say (so in this case an example: "My Lord Sheogorath commands it!" -"Oh is that so?" etc.). Secondly, I've taken up a habit to put available topics in bold, as I think it looks clear and plain nicer to read. I just wondered how you, and other people think about that. Thirdly, a small thing, but I think putting an NPC's name in bold in the description of images on their page is the proper thing to do, like before I thinks it looks nicer that way. I just wanted to point these things out, because, well the first thing actually bothers me, but in general, I think that consistency on the site is preferable, no? Now, as it may look like I'm just plain critizising your work, let me just add that I think those quest icon additions at the section titles are a great idea, maybe we could add them to the Golden Saint page or Thadon and Syl etc. Well let me know what you think ~ Dwarfmp 23:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

() Haha, sorry for being unclear - Relmyna is fine where she is; a great image can be taken if you position yourself between the bodies, then look at Relmyna with the corpse in the foreground. Pretty creepy and gory!
As for the layout and all the different methods used on the NPC pages, I can only say one thing; the project is actually still evolving and we have no "real" guidelines as to what is right or wrong. Yet. While I like most methods, personally I'm not too big a fan of bold letters, nor am I a big fan of links in dialogue quotes (that is why I never use these methods when I write pages). And sometimes I write the dialogue options available to the player, sometimes not - it is a matter of personal preference at this stage, and it is a matter of flow and what looks good.
I do like to use links to colorize walls of text and will never shy away from a redundant link if I feel it helps the layout. As for the VIP NPCs (introduced a long time ago by yours truly here) I think we've managed to maintain a consistent layout so far, on pages like Thadon, Armand Christophe, Amusei ect ect. What is really hard are the NPCs (like Relmyna) involved in only one or two quests but with tons of dialogue; in these cases the VIP NPC layout doesn't work, so I tried something different with Relmyna; a forced table of contents, quest sections divided into chapters and the quest icons as an added bonus. The latter idea actually looks pretty good and we could easily use the technique on all VIP pages if we wanted - but I guess that should be discussed on the project page. But starting to discuss consistency on pages now will only lead to a billion edits done to the pages - and then later on, we find an even better method, and then we change them all again. As of now, I think it is all about adding the info to the pages - and then deal with all the small layout issues later on. --Krusty 00:17, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Alright, I took some new shots. Well about the Exalted Pain one, it's about the best I can do, cause I keep falling back on the ground, with the camera in 3rd person. So I had to position myself against the wall, in order for it to stay in 1st person. But then it was still difficult to keep her looking at the screen. Anyway, a shot of her inspecting the failed experiments, did you want that as the introductory page? Because if so, you probably won't see her feet etc. So I'm guessing you simply want an extra 4:3 one to spice up the page. I do have to note she doesn't stand there in the beginning of the quest, but after you've collected all the ingredients she needs, just saying :) ~ Dwarfmp 11:32, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Hey again! The images are brilliant and the Exalted Pain-shot is much, much better than I ever imagined it could be, mainly because of the inevitable shift to 3rd person no matter what you do - incredibly cool that you can see Relmyna through that acid-trip of light! Brilliant work - I'll go ahead and add them all to the Sandbox, just to see how it looks. I might move the Gatekeeper ritual image for now, as it looks a bit weird on the quest page, when one of the images is 4:3 when all the others are wider. Again, thank you so much! The cookie will crumble when I launch the page! :) --Krusty 13:51, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Forgot to answer your question; well, I would like to replace the Body Parts image (it belongs on the quest page) with a 4:3 image (with a different name) of Relmyna standing next to the failed experiments, scribbling in her book. For the square image, I had high hopes that it would be possible to take a frontal shot of her near the cages, using that quill of hers to scribble down her discoveries - I just tested it, and while the bars tend to get in the way, it is possible to get a full shot of her in that position. If these two images can get onto the page, it will be finished! :) --Krusty 14:38, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
A book-scribbling shot is definitely possible, though I was thinking of another one where she's in her room in Xaselm. I don't know if she ever goes there though, other than wandering. On the subject, I tested to see if she really went on with the experiments after you told her to stop, cause I never seen her doing that after I did. I was right, she goes to pray right after she puts that spell on you, but then she seems to wander around. She doesn't continue to torture the victims. Also, the Victim topic is only available after she's fired a spell at a victim. I found that out when I quickly talked to her, and it just wouldn't show up, only after she fired a spell would the topic suddenly appear, just thought that would me worth mentioning. ~ Dwarfmp 18:09, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
EDIT: Also, you're going to use the first torture image too right? I think it looks awesome, if I say so myself. Better than the second one I took, well, you see more of the victim being tortured. ~ Dwarfmp 18:15, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Nice observations; as far as I know, a yet-to-be-investigated bug prevents her from ever entering her room (unless, of course, her random wandering brings her there), so it might be hard to catch a shot of her there. If you want to go for the torture shot, I noticed a cool background when she tortures the Orc victim. As for your preferred image of the torture itself, feel free to change it - I simply went with the one where you see the "most" of the victim, but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, I'll double-check your observations in a minute and make the changes to the page. --Krusty 18:23, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
After a very long struggle of pushing and making her stand the **** still, I managed to take a good shot of her in her room with some skulls hanging next to her etc. I can still take the book-scribbling one though. But I figured you can see her writing when I take that shot at the failed experiments. I could also take an extra 4:3 of her writing in the book at the cages, though apparently people don't like too many images. As for the torture pictures, you're just going to use 1 then? I thought you were gonna use both because you asked for 2. You can put another one at the section below, as that section doesn't have any images. Maybe slightly out of place, though then again not really. ~ Dwarfmp 19:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
EDIT: I just uploaded a picture of her inspecting the failed experiment, assuming that's sort of what you meant, I hope you like it the way I took it. ~ Dwarfmp 19:29, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
EDIT2: Btw, I have just realized that Rebuilding_The_Gatekeeper_01 is a terrible file name, seeing that there's just one as R_T_G. I thought maybe it could've been deleted, and that only a R_T_G_02 was just weird. Hope that doesn't mess up the pattern :P ~ Dwarfmp 19:55, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
That image near the experiments is spot-on; as a matter of fact, the entire page is very close now - we only need the square image and you are right, maybe it can be taken somewhere else than the torture chamber. I also added the second torture image and tweaked the schedule accordingly (you were right and I can't believe that I never noticed that she will wander and sleep after the Exalted Pain-thing). As for the file names, we might wanna rename them and move around a bit later, but right now, it is all about getting the page launched. Looking forward to see that square image you are talking about - and again, a really big thank you for all the work. --Krusty 20:02, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


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I said something about a cookie, but your output definitely deserves a star; not only have you completed some of the most complicated NPCs in the Isles, you also created the current featured article and provided me with some truly excellent images for the Relmyna page. Keep up the brilliant work! --Krusty 21:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Are those edible too? Well, I like working on those things, so no problem. I suppose I can start working on the Dark Seducer page for real now. Though, I'd like to work on a VIP NPC, because the state the page is in right now is downright unacceptable: Lord Sheogorath himself! It would be a great honor to bring forth his madness the way it should be brought ~ Dwarfmp 21:51, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Haha, I have a feeling Sheo will be a hard one to do - and quite challenging in the layout-department as he doesn't move too much around, which can force us to re-invent the OBNPCRP-wheel once again. Nevertheless, his dialogue is the best in the Isles, and the page is screaming for a revamp, so go ahead - and best of luck! :) --Krusty 23:09, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


Hey Dwarfmp! Before you go on break for good, I really think you should launch your Syl page - it is great stuff, and I consider it finished, even if we have some kind of problem with the dialogue near the end of the quest line. I think it would be really helpful if you launch it - then we can get on with the investigation. Have a nice break - and don't take too long! --Krusty 09:55, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

In-active UP update[edit]

Hey! Due to your recent inactivity, I have moved you to a new section on the Userspace Patrollers List, named In-active Userspace Patrollers. If you at some point decide to return to the job, please move your name to the active/semi-active UP list just above. Thanks. --Krusty 13:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh sure, no problem. I still check the recent changes near daily though. Anyway, thanks for letting me know. ~ Dwarfmp 18:24, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, I added you as inactive because of the notification on your userpage, simply because it seemed like the correct thing to do. If you are still patrolling every once in a while, just move your name to the other list and add a "semi-active"-status. Oh, and please come back soon! --Krusty 19:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


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Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

For your excellent work on those images that now grace the Shivering:Sheogorath article, and too apologize for me stealing your thunder. Sorry about that, I wouldn't of worked on that page if I knew you were on it. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 18:31, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree, those are excellent images! I kind of stopped editing a little while back for several reasons, otherwise the Sheogorath page would've been finished by now. No-ones fault there, if it isn't mine (and I'm sure it isn't :P). Anyway, I was still planning on taking more screenshots, finish the dialogue etc. Maybe even some sort of conclusion, as he's such an important character. Thanks for the cookie dude ~ Dwarfmp 18:56, 10 May 2011 (UTC)


Hey Dwarfmp! Long time no see – you need to put down that online-gaming and come back here! ;) Anyway, I was thinking: Would you be interesting in some good ol’ fashioned creative image work? I need in the neighborhood of ten images, but I just thought I’d ask beforehand. All the best! --Krusty 08:17, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi :). Kind of stopped playing that online game, as I predicted. I actually started playing Oblivion again, and somehow it feels like playing it for the first time again (although I've played it a LOT). I'm just enjoying the game, instead of trying to analyze the whole thing and working it out here. Anyway, I'll take some images sure. What would you like me to take? ~ Dwarfmp 11:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Ah, so good to hear you are back! You also have a Sheogorath page to look at! ;) Anyways, I’m doing Modreyn Oreyn and that page is going to be HUGE! I simply need decoration. I have absolutely no ideas as of now – and I’m not even done writing (still two quests to go); but I’d really like each and every quest accompanied by an image. It is totally up to you (I know you’re good at this!) – take a look at my Sandbox – and when you are done screaming, try and think about how it can be decorated. The images shouldn’t neceesarily involve Modryn (except for Azani Blackheart) – but see if you can think of something. It’s a HUGE bugger, but it can be really pretty when you work your magic! --Krusty 12:07, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
I see what the problem is. Hmm, kind of crappy that he is one of those "go and report back" people that don't do anything in particular. Maybe a shot of his house and Atatar and the like would do well. Is it urgent? My character isn't in the Fighters Guild yet, and I'm not planning on rushing through those quests when he is. I just want to enjoy the game a bit right now :) ~ Dwarfmp 14:27, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
No rush at all - maybe a shot of his pathetic little shack would be nice for now - we can always look at the rest later. But man, he is killing me... One quest to go... --Krusty 14:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Argh I don't know why, but I suddenly feel bored with oblivion. Maybe I'll enjoy improving the wiki for once again. I'm just going to use my bendu olo to cheat my way through the fighters guild to make the snapshots. ~ Dwarfmp 19:45, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to hear that - I was actually a bit jealous that you enjoyed OB again. Anyways, like I said, you are totally free to decorate the page any way you see fit; looking forward to your work! --Krusty 20:09, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Got a pic of his shack, also have a shot of him sitting behind the desk in the FG, though there's something weird with that file. I re-uploaded a lighter one, but that one won't show up, even refreshing the page, and using it in an article, the thumbnail still shows the dark version. Only when you look at it in full scale, then it's the right version. Odd... Don't know if anyone else has that problem. ~ Dwarfmp 21:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Sounds odd. I'll have a look in a minute. Love the shot with the bottles! Remember, the images can easily portray the events Modryn causes, people he hate (like Maglir), the Blackwood Company, Vilena Donton ect ect. All the quests have some sort of "theme", so just go with your gut feeling. ONE image I'd like, though:Modryn painting at the very end of the quest line. I hate that CS extracted thing (here), and it is pretty funny that he picks up painting. Keep it up and lets see where we end! --Krusty 21:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

() Truly odd! I get the "light" thumb, but when I click the image its the darker version. Too tired right now, so I'll ask some people tomorrow. Btw, I prefer the "darker" version with the bottles... --Krusty 21:54, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, well I thought the first one was too dark according to the site standards. Usually people complain about my pictures being too dark, I guess I must have a bright screen or so, but I myself wouldn't say the first version is too dark. Anyway, got more shots coming up. ~ Dwarfmp 22:16, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Don't worry too much about brightness/darkness for now - when all is said and done, I can run them thorugh Photoshop (like I did with a few of the Relmyna images) just to make them "site standard" (whatever that is). Btw, that Arpenia shot is brilliant! --Krusty 22:23, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Alright took some more, Modryn showing the way to Atatar (which I'm particularly proud of), a new version of Modryn fighting Azani, a new version of Ajum getting beaten (which isn't exactly for Modryn's page, but it needed a cleanup), and one of Modryn and Ajum together. More are coming up, but I have to go to bed now. Don't exactly know when I'll be back here (I have to go somewhere tomorrow, but that won't last very long). It should be around 15 O' server time, though it could be later cause I may eat at that time. ~ Dwarfmp 01:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Couldn't sleep last night, so I finished the page (the written text, that is). There's still some boring "after the questline-dialogue" to write, but for now, everything that needs images is ready. What a gigantic page - hopefully, we can make it pretty! --Krusty 09:29, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Question: What exactly do you expect for the Modryn painting shot? Do you want to see the painting in the shot, or do you want to see his face when he paints? Also, if you want the painting visible in the shot, is it supposed to replace the CS picture, or should I upload a new picture on its own? ~ Dwarfmp 18:47, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Well, I think it would be fun with a really artistic shot of him painting, without looking at the canvas? It is just such a weird idea that he picks up painting that it deserves a funny shot. The CS image should just be deleted IMO - I'd much rather have an in-game shot of the bad painting on the easel (without Modryn), in case we need it as some kind of "finishing image". Hope that made sense! --Krusty 18:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Sometimes it's really hard to choose which one is best. To be a bit more precise, because you want it to look funny: do you want him dipping his brush into the palette, or rather have him using the brush on the painting, I also think holding the brush and palette up (right before he uses the brush on the painting) makes him look like he's having some artistic pause or something which could work. I know that's a very precise question, but I want to upload the right one here. Btw, I realized he is wearing a ring, is this the Azani Blackheart ring by any chance? Or do I have to look it up in the CS what that is all about? ~ Dwarfmp 19:17, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Its kindda hard to say which one is best without seeing them; just upload the bunch and then I can speedy the ones we don't want to use. As for the ring? Never noticed that - I'll have to take a closer look.... --Krusty 19:22, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

() Damn, thats hard! I tend to like #1 the best - and in the perfect world, we could have an overshoulder-image as well where you can see that he is totally talentless. I regret that I asked you for a shot without Modryn - I think the painting will look a lot better with him in the foreground. What do you think yourself? --Krusty 19:48, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Well showing the canvas with him painting, his arm will cover some up of the painting, and looking at his back isn't very... um... well it's not an appealing angle. Actually with a good shot, you see his side, not his back, and most of the painting, I could try that again. Shadows will cover the canvas though. I don't really have much of an opinion, they're all my pictures anyway, and it's your article. So what should I do? In any case, I'll probably take some other screenshots for other npc pages that need better pictures, probably a good idea ~ Dwarfmp 19:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Hmm, I just took a look at him painting and you are probably right - I just wish we could present that painting a little less "static". Anyways, let's go for #1 - I'll try and add it and see how it looks. Oh, and the ring remains a mystery - I can see he is wearing it but I can't find anything in his inventory - that is a CS thing. --Krusty 20:00, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
That is damn hard! To be honest, I'd really like you to scatter all your new images around on the page, just to see how it looks - I'm SO fed up with Modryn by now, that I could test and try for the next month. Hope you are up for the task! --Krusty 20:09, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I've been looking through the CS, but didn't find why he had a ring. Tried making him unessential in the game, but that doesn't seem to work... So I quickly made a mod to make him killable, and I found "Blackheart's Ring" on his body, so I guess I was right. Must be a different ring than the one you give, which doesn't have a script, I don't know, I guess I'll check that out later in the CS. ~ Dwarfmp 20:26, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Ok I've added some images to the page, kind of hard to find the right place. I move the table of contents next to the related quests section, I thought it fit well, and it doesn't make a gap in the unfinished business, so maybe an image can be added there now. If you meant it to be there, well you should put it back of course. With the atatar shot, the column could perhaps be made longer (more dialogue, or some sort)? Because it fits next to that column, I could also put them kind of ahead of the text, I don't know, but we'll figure that out. In any case, it needs images of maglir etc., but those pictures as they are now are bad, so I'll take some more screenshots for that if that's ok with you. ~ Dwarfmp 20:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Looks good! The TOC are meant to break up the Quest-related Events-line, so I might revert that at some point. You will also notice that I attempted to make the house description a BIT longer, so it fits with your image of the shack. That sort of thing is always possible. Oh, and a funny caption to the "bottle"-image could be: "Modryn waiting for employment"... Anyway, just keep tweaking as it looks good - and I can probably make the text longer if needed. Just say the word. --Krusty 21:08, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
The description is just temporary filler, you can change that into anything you want. The images can be moved too, they're not quite right now, but I put them where they belong somewhere in the area-ish... Pictures coming up ~ Dwarfmp 21:13, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

() Alright, I believe I'll pick things up tomorrow. The Azani images are hard to place, though now it doesn't look bad to me, but is the way I put them acceptable? Apart from images, is the page done? I find the rumors on the bottom to be oddly put there, I would mix them up in the text, but that's me of course. I seem to find a typo pretty often too, I should read the page completely before launching, easier for me to spot a mistake cause I didn't make the text. Also, I noticed you left out some dialogue, at least at the interrogation with Ajum-Kajin, to be precise: when you kill him before he told you everything, in which case he doesn't give you the amulet etc. Anyway, any ideas on what images I could squeeze in in particular, and where? Just wondering how you feel about the page right now ~ Dwarfmp 00:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I made a major overhaul this morning; tweaked a lot of the images in Photoshop (they should all look good as thumbs by now) and placed them "correctly" on the page. Not all images needed treatment, though, and the biggest decision I made was to go back to the old Drunk and Disorderly image for the Modryn page. The new image works fine on the quest page, but looked weird on the NPC page; hope that is okay with you. Biggest problem of the lot: MAGLIR! That asshat is impossible to get right and the current one (from the Lodge) is a bit weird - maybe there's too much going on in the shot, but Ihave a feeling he is one of the "hard-to-shoot"NPCs - because he looks like an idiot, no matter what. Anyway, take a look on the page and let me know what you think. --Krusty 07:52, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
No problem with using the old D and D image, only think it stands out among the other images because of the quality difference, but no big deal or anything. I'm not sure what you mean with Maglir looking dumb or anything, but I can take another shot at it, any suggestions you may have? Maybe it's because you look down on him because he's small. You need a picture for the Hist or anything? I can take a screenshot of the tree from a different angle, where it's more centered and no dead bodies lying next to it. Just an idea. Also, I think you need to put links to the quests in their section on the page, I mean mention the questname with a link in the text. Another question, what exactly is wrong with the word 'responsibility', cause you put a sic tag on it ~ Dwarfmp 13:21, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Well, Maglir is just a "comical" character - I suspect he was made like that. I think we could use some kind of closer image of him, where we can put the text "I'm Blackwood Company now" or "The little vermin"- something like that. Important part is that it does not involve too many other NPCs, I think. The D and D image looked odd because of Witseidutsei - a shot of the three guys downing beers is much more telling for the Modryn page. As it is now, it DOES stand out, so if you can get a good drinking shot, we can just throw the old one away. The Hist needs something - actually,we need something related to the Blackwood Company and the destroyed tree sounds like a good idea. Other than that, the page is close to perfection and looks splendid. I hope it's okay that I tweak the colors a little every once in a while - notice that I even removed the chest from the Arpenia shot! :D --Krusty 13:34, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
I've just noticed you edited more images than I thought you had (refreshing page, it should to that automatically...), and to be very frank, despite sounding rude, I think people in general having edited my images ruined them. I'm talking about the Atatar shot in particular now, the colors are messed up, his face has a dark spot all of a sudden etc etc. I see what you tried to achieve, and since I retain the original bmp files, I can create the same effect without losing quality or have weird side-effects, I'll upload the new contrast full one to see how you think about it. With all due respect of course, but I'm sure you understand what I'm saying :). My thoughts on the Arpenia shot in particular, not sure why you removed the chest as it is in-game like that, but I don't see any problem with it. I guess it is my fault for not knowing how an image should look colorwise. I just wanted to put that out there, cause I like my images so much partly because the quality is so great and intact. I'll show you the Atatar one now... ~ Dwarfmp 13:52, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Atatar image is better now, so no problem there. What is important to me is that NOTHING disrupts the image (like the chest) - that the blacks are "black" and that the colors and resolution resemble my PS3 version (which should be the best resolution version in existence) on my HD TV with HDMI cable. Also of great concern is how the thumbs look - the image can be a masterpiece, but if the thumbs doesn't work nobody will ever bother to click on them. No problem though - I'm just a perfectionist with this, mostly because I do it for a living - but also because this Wiki deserves the best of the best. I'm not always right, though - like you just proved with the Atatar shot. --Krusty 14:05, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
I too am a perfectionist :) There's no real policy on what images should look like. I can imagine ps3 having more contrast than pc. Anyway, it's hard to know what exactly images should look like, as when I started out, people said my images were too dark. I guess in the end, it's always going to look different to the other, because not everyone has the same type of screen etc etc. I'll keep in mind what you expect of these images, I guess the perfect balance is bright and dark, the right contrast. And to be honest, I like my images that way too. I took these pictures with full brightness on in the game, but when I play, I set the slider in the middle, which gives a much better mood I tell ya that. ~ Dwarfmp 14:25, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
I know you are, and that is why I like your images so much! I'm aware of the different monitor settings (which, after all, is a matter of personal taste and quality of the product) and that is something we can't change, no matter how much we try. Next time, however, I'll let you know before I tweak anything - if you can do it, there's no need for me to spend a lot of time in PS when I could do something more useful. I don't mind though (take a look at our current featured image - that is a pink spotlight placed WAY outside the image just to achieve the right effect) or this which contains over 36 layers and took me over 5 hours to create. :) --Krusty 14:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
I believe I took the shots that needed to be taken now, unless you got some other requests. I'm going out and I don't know when I'll be coming back. I hope I captured that look you wanted on the new images, view and contrast etc. Let me know what you think. ~ Dwarfmp 15:28, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
I believe the page is now as good as it gets. The close-up of Maglir is a bit dark, though. ;) What happens next is that I'll ask a few people to proofread it, hopefully fill out the "gaps" with some rambling and then Modryn is history. To answer your question; I'm not a big fan of links in headers as I believe they look odd. Also, it IS a fact that our current projects (OBNPCRP and OPRP) surpasses the quest pages to an embarrassing degree, so until we get the "OB Quest Redesign Project" underway, there's no need to advertise too much. Take a look on the page (I had to skip a few of the images, so hopefully they can be used elsewhere) and thank you so much for your help and patience! --Krusty 18:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
I enjoyed taking screenshots, if you got any other requests, please let me know cause I'll be happy to oblige. About those links, I only meant something like: "this starts the quest ...", not linking the title, thats gross. I meant having a link of the mentioned quest in their section, when like, I was reading something about the Hist for example, I'd like to have a link to 'The Hist' in the text somewhere. No section title should be a link, I totally agree, a link to the actual quest should just appear in the first lines of text. About the maglir one being too dark, I'm still learning to make the best images, please don't be shy to mention what is wrong about an image I took (which you mentioned, fortunately). Are you talking about a Quest project? Cause that is EXACTLY what we need. To be frank, most quest pages are s***, barely any details etc. Especially missing the dialogue, I noticed that. As for now, things look great. If you didn't notice yet, I've been drinking and I'm pretty... umm, well drunk I suppose. Party was great (don't worry kids, I'm 21 years old in a country where the age of 16 is the minimum to drink, I know what I'm doing, sort of). I'll check the page out thoroughly when I'm sobered up and s***, I'll tell you what I think. Thanks ~ Dwarfmp 01:44, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

() Hey there! No worries, being drunk is an important part of serious Wiki work! :D As for the suggestions about linking to the next “quest”, I’m all for it. I think I did It a few times, but I’ll try and look through it again. Problem is that the Azzan/Burz quests often interfere (and they can be done in optional order), so that is probably why I never did too much of that. I also really wanted to use the nifty icons in the headers, but the nature of the quest line prevents that, mostly because of the damn demotion-thing after Trolls of Forsaken Mine, which can be prevented by taking to the right person ect ect.
The quest pages are “an abomination” (most of them, at least) and I could hardly believe my eyes when I read through a page like Unfinished Business. However, doing quest pages that are up to our standards takes TIME (I have done a few and it demands that you play through the quest at least 15 times) and our current projects are so big and time-consuming that I think we’ll have to wait a bit before looking into the quest pages. In a perfect world, the results of the OBNPCRP and OPRP should be perfect matches (and perfect companions) to the quest pages, so lets finish these first. However, if you see lousy quest pages (like the one I mentioned), NEVER hesitate to slap on a cleanup-tag. As for future projects? Sure – if I say “Jauffre”, what do you say? --Krusty 07:01, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, by the way - I added your little "ring investigation" at the end of Azani Blackheart (to fill out the gap and because I think it is important). Take a look and see if I understood you correctly! --Krusty 07:05, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Argh I hate hangovers... Jauffre? Oh man, I'd have to go through the whole main quest. Sure I can just skip quests through the console, but I think it's safer to simply cheat your way through every stage, as important things can happen during those middlestages (like changing outfits). But sure, I'm up for it, I was the one who added all his dialogue in the first place. I have to ask you again, what's wrong with the word 'responsibility' in The Hist section, cause you added a sic tag and I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the spelling, or am I going crazy? Also, I checked the ring out in-game, and I believe it's true he will wear it from when you give it to him, however, he won't wear it immediately, and it turns out you can steal the ring back before he puts it on, I think that's something worth mentioning, especially because it's a zero-weight ring. ~ Dwarfmp 13:32, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
I stole the ring again to see if it was a quest-item. He knew I pickpocketed it this time, but he still just walked away with no bounty, only saying: "Put that back, you worthless thief!" The ring is a quest-item so undroppable, but I suppose enchanting it will untag it as a QI, so it should be very helpful (if it doesn't gain weight somehow). He probably puts the ring on when he gets out of bed the next day I reckon. ~ Dwarfmp 14:47, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Nice work and testing! I'm positive it is worth mentioning, but unsure where to put it on the page - I'd rather avoid too many notes (page is massive as it is), but we can make the info in bold at the end of the Azani section? After all, you're not supposed to take the ring, but you have to pay REALLY close attention to notice that he is wearing it. As for Jauffre, you're right - I just remembered that I deleted all my main quest saves to make room for Modryn. Any other suggestions? --Krusty 14:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to intrude on the conversation, but personally I think it would work well in the inventory section at the top. Something along the lines of "Modryn will also wear Azani's ring after you give it to him during the Azani Black-Heart quest", and maybe also a note about being able to steal is back from him if you're quick. Legoless 15:17, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
You are more than welcome to intrude. That is a good idea, although I still think the brief mention of the ring should stay at the end of the Azani section, just as a "reminder" that he will wear the ring from then on. As I still don't fully understand the CS stuff with the ring, maybe one of you guys can add the info to the inventory section? --Krusty 20:13, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Impeccable timing! It's pretty clear what happens to the ring, it would be unnecessary to go through the CS, because he gets the ring once you give it to him, and that's pretty much everything that happens. I too think this should be mentioned at the end of the Azani section, rather than in the intro, I like keeping things chronological. Legoless, any feedback is welcome. Anyway, I don't really care one way or another which character gets worked on. I think as for now, I'm going to play Oblivion as a little break from editing, or well, taking screenshots and investigating. I know I should be working on the Sheogorath page, but I'm too lazy right now. Just let me know if you do come up with someone good. I think my talk page has been quite filled now, so I'll soon be archiving it, when the Modryn chapter is over. ~ Dwarfmp 20:21, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

() I think it would be more relevant as a note or at the end of the Azani section then in his inventory screen. This is because any NPC given an item will put it on (This is why you can give NPCs cursed zero weight items). Since Modryn Oreyn doesn't have any other rings in his inventory he will put this one on. Though to complete the quest line he will inevitably get the ring, this behavior would likely be duplicated if you gave him any other zero weight item. The fact that this is a quest related object makes it relevant to mention that he will wear it, but it doesn't mean it should be counted as part of his inventory. This seems to me to be more of an oversight really (Unless he makes a comment about keeping the ring afterwards, then this would be much more notable). --AKB Talk Cont Mail 20:23, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Page is launched - I can't look at that mohawk any longer! You people decide what to do with the ring! Dwarfmp, thanks again for all the help and the entire batch of great images! Let me know if I can do anything to help with the Sheo page - have fun playing OB; I envy you! --Krusty 20:27, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

That Skooma Trade Operation...[edit]

Hey again! I’ve been waiting for you to archive that enormous Modryn-discussion so I could write you again, but here goes; I actually thought of a really neat little image job, WHEN and IF you get the time. Fact is, we have a loosely-based description of the (quite big) Skooma Trade operation performed by the Orum Gang of Cheydinhal. I have watched the whole thing and there’s some really great images (and rare experiences) in there;

While The Orum Gang could use their own page at some point, Oghash’s own page could use the detailed shots for now (and the Walker Camp page could use the Thugs shot), so there is absolutely no reason not to document this incredible series of unknown events. Just in case you felt like getting artsy with that camera of yours! ☺ All the best! --Krusty 09:06, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh whoops I forgot to archive these things, sorry :P . Let me just go ahead and do that, and I'll start a new section where we can discuss this. Let me check out those NPC's pages and I'll get back to you soon. ~ Dwarfmp 16:57, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
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