Skyrim talk:Illusion

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Archive 1: Nov 2011 - Jan 2012

Master of the Mind - Invisibility[edit]

Does the perk Master of the Mind make you more effectively invisible for daedra? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 13 May 2012

I would assume this perk only affects on target spells, so my answer would be no ~ Dwarfmp 08:39, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Area of Effect?[edit]

One of my characters has completed the illusion tree. While doing so I've noticed that the Frenzy style spells seem to explode on landing even if they do not score a direct hit on an NPC, and that those near the explosion will act as if directly hit and attack each other. This is especially noticeable from very long range while sneaking. So is there a specific "area of effect" like within 10 feet for this (or other) illusion spells? Am I alone in this observation? If there is an AOE should the page mention it? Kalevala 20:08, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the effect names, Calm, Fury and Fear all seem to follow the same progression: First spell: One target. Second spell: ranged area effect. Third spell: self-centred area effect. I agree it would be good to list this in the article. --Irrevenant (talk) 05:26, 20 December 2012 (GMT)

Advancing Illusion Experience[edit]

My in-game experience in advancing a new illusion character seems to indicate a requirement to burn through a fixed amount of magicka by some combination of spells to advance the skill. In this case for an illusion skill in the twenties, it works out to about 7 times the skill level to advance one level. So, one muffle for 120 + 2 courage at 33 each, totaling 186 in fact moved the skill from 25 to 26. This "cost" may only be nominal, in that the actual magicka lost can mitigated to zero by various equipment and potions, however the game seems to credit progress based upon what the spell's nominal cost was. Can anyone else verify my experience here? If so, should something like this be noted on the page:

The formula for advancing from X, to X+1 requires 7X magicka be used by the applicable spells.

The next logical question: is this applicable to other schools? Kalevala 20:31, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Dual Casting Courage/Rally[edit]

Any word on how dual casting those spells affects the resulting effects; do they simply last longer or increase health and stamina further, etc.? — Unsigned comment by Arpaleggia (talkcontribs) at 13:51 on 29 June 2012

Dual casting increases duration only. Vinifera7 (talk) 18:43, 5 October 2012 (GMT)

Fury will ignite oil pools[edit]

Found out Fury will ignite oil pools (those multi-hued "puddles" in most dungeons.)

Curiously, Frenzy will NOT. Anyone found additional uses for spells? For example, i use the weakest repulse undead to stagger Deathlords and Dragon Priests. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 06:52 on 10 July 2012

neither ignite oil pools, tested 21:14, 14 January 2013 (GMT)

Master of the Mind and Necromage[edit]

Using these two perks would suggest that a spell with 20 points of potency would supply another 5 points of potency to undead. If this is true, at what point would this apply to the dual casting bonus? Would dual casting on undead result in 55 points or 49 points? 16:01, 19 July 2012 (UTC)Havik

lvl 55 - cuz u have a base of lvl 20 and 2.2 multiplier from dual casting and an additional multiplier from necro mage of 1.25 to the magnitude, meaning lvl, therefore, since it is multiplication and it matters not at which order u put ur values, it will be so:20x1.25x2.2. That is what i think and i think that there could not possibly be a logical reason to any other way to calculate it... — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 19:56 on 31 August 2013‎

Table for affected levels[edit]

Wasn't there a half-completed table on this talk page some weeks ago that showed what level NPCs each type of spell could affect? A finished version of that table (including the changes applied by dual casting, perks, vampirism, and Necromage vampirism) would be extremely useful, if anyone has the tools to get the hard data in place. There's not even any confirmation on the main page as to whether the Dual Casting bonus is applied before or after the perk bonuses. 03:10, 9 October 2012 (GMT)

The table you're referring to can be found here in the archives of this talk page. — ABCface 03:21, 9 October 2012 (GMT)

To Anyone Who Doubts the Utility of Illusion (Especially at Higher Levels...)[edit]

I've had Skyrim (my first Elder Scrolls game...) since a little after it was released, and I've played through most of the quests and the main story a number of times (I have this had odd compulsion, first with Fallout 3 and New Vegas, now with Skyrim, to try and figure out "the perfect" order, like there is such a thing, to play through all of the quests, get the items, etc--I think it's a subconscious excuse to keep playing them, over and over...), mostly as your standard melee combat characters with a splash of magic thrown in.

I discovered Alteration magic first, then actually leveled up and learned how use Restoration magic (for the longest time I only used healing spells at the worst possible times, died, and then went "aww man...Restoration sucks!"), and then I thought I'd try out Illusion with the perks and all of that, when I had something like 9 unused perks that I couldn't find a use for to save my life. I didn't even expect to keep all of it, and I was super careful to make back up saves, yada yada.

Holy cripes was I missing out. Just the Muffle spell rocks enough by itself (even if you have the Muffle enchantment on everything, like moi...), of course, casting Calm on children is friggin' hilarious (maybe that's just me...I didn't even know about the whole "wow that was fun! do it again!" deal until Hearthfire came out and I was messing around), and Fury is probably my favorite way to assassinate people for the Dark Brotherhood stuff.

Oh baby, the Master spells? Talk about awesome (the only downside is that a lot of followers will crap themselves when you cast Hysteria, particularly my favorite follower, Kharjo).

I assume that anyone reading this hates the Falmer to an extent that would concern any good psychologist, just like I do. I'll also assume that ya hate those godforsaken Dwarven spiders and spheres just as much, if not more.

Well, I don't care what level you are: cast Hysteria (which kind of functions like Detect Life in a way, with a way bigger area of effect), and even then, cast Mayhem. Oh yeah, cast Hysteria again, then Mayhem again. Not only are about 80% of those miserable ********ers dead and on their way to Hell, but those super high level monsters like Shadowmasters etc? Assuming they're not dead too (since affecting even half of the enemies in a dungeon or whatever --> just about all of them getting into a big battle royal and either losing 80% of their health or getting killed), you'll know they're up ahead because casting the spell gives you a nice little inventory of all of the enemies who are too strong to be affected.

That being said, Shadowmasters are about the only enemies that I haven't seen affected by Master spells or the others, augmented with dual casting and their related-perks...yes, that includes Briar hearts and those evil ass Draugr Deathlords with Ebony everything and a zillion shouts that seem way cooler than yours (including that Disarm/Unrelenting Force hybrid, where your followers always lose that bad ass weapon you made for them...COUGH cough KHARJO cough COUGH Dragonbone War Axe COUGH).

I will close my argument in favor of Illusion by sharing a little more of my own experiences: using the Mayhem and Hysteria cycle above, I went through the Alftland part of Discerning the Transmundane and the final Thieves Guild quest at Irkngthand, both which are usually agonizing and monotonous to me and take forever, in less (I mean way less...) than a half hour a piece. I'm so not kidding or exaggerating.--Timfever (talk) 11:57, 5 November 2012 (GMT)

Timfever, this kind of thing is really best suited to our forums. You may wish to take up your cause over there ;). eshetalk 15:10, 5 November 2012 (GMT)
Yeah, as I've started to post and contribute more regularly, I'm realizing how many times I've done stuff like this and I feel quite silly. Thank you for being gentle!--Timfever (talk) 09:48, 8 December 2012 (GMT)

Turn Undead vs Fear[edit]

If Master of the Mind makes undead susceptible to Illusions spells and Necromage makes those spells more effective, what is the relative effectiveness of Turn Undead + Necromage versus Fear/Rout + MotM + Necromage? Assuming this extends to weapon enchantments, does this mean a weapon with Turn Undead and Fear would be redundant? SonGoharotto (talk) 17:47, 20 December 2012 (GMT)

Master of the Mind + Animage/Kindred Mage[edit]

Are undead, deadra, and automatons affected by the Animage or Kindred Mage perks after you've unlocked Master of the Mind? If so, then which one? For that matter, what about dremora, who are both NPCs and daedra? Needs to be tested. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:35, 20 December 2012 (GMT)

Master of the Mind and Enchantments[edit]

Does MotM make a Fear-enchanted weapon function like Turn Undead, the way it does with spells? SonGoharotto (talk) 23:58, 20 December 2012 (GMT)

Lethal Courage Spell[edit]

I'm encountering an issue with the spell "courage" which causes certain NPCs to die instantly when I cast it on them, even if they are at full health. I'm not seeing this reported anywhere else, Anyone have a fix/reason for this? The people that I have found that are killed by it so far are Serena and Erandur (Vaermina quest) Ayeitburns (talk) 14:43, 25 April 2013 (GMT)

That sounds extremely odd. Are you playing on the PC; and if so, do you have any mods installed that might be causing this? --Xyzzy Talk 23:35, 25 April 2013 (GMT)

Illusion spells not working.[edit]

I trained my Illusion to 100 at the College and sacrificed my Sneak perks to fill out the Illusion tree, then I went out to Winterhold to test my new powers. I tried a single handed Frenzy spell on one of the guards but it said they were too powerful. I tried dual casting it and it still wouldn't work. I tried dual casting Pacify and Rout and even the master spells. Nothing worked. I checked their level on the Winterhold guard page and it says they're level 1. What reason is there for these spells not to work on them? I also had a similar experience with a Draugr Deathlord. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 17:54 on 30 May 2013

Illuision leveling glitch (legendary)[edit]

Can someone confirm that leveling Illusion using Harmony (master level spell, after making the skill legendary) gives ridiculous amounts of xp? I just tried it on my perma storm atronach and a hostile dog, and the first cast after a reset takes me to 55. Santaranger (talk) 21:49, 29 June 2013 (GMT)

What difficulty level were you on? I tried it on Expert difficulty and went from 15 to 35 by casting it one time on two mudcrabs. --Xyzzy Talk 23:22, 29 June 2013 (GMT)
My last question appears to be irrelevant. I cast it one time in Dragonsreach in front of Balgruuf and several other NPCs. It took effect on about 5 of them, and increased my Illusion skill from 15 to 40 on novice and legendary difficulty levels both. I also tested it with and without apparel that reduces Illusion casting costs, and experienced no difference. Not sure why you experienced such an extreme increase, but it may not be a glitch. Is there a chance that there were other NPCs/creatures nearby that were also affected? --Xyzzy Talk 23:43, 29 June 2013 (GMT)
While it may not be a real glitch, it does level your character extremely fast, even compared to other master level spells. I could go 15-100 in no more 5 casts. Magic skills have one general problem with the Legedary system: you can still cast all spells after resetting the skill. I guess they didn't think that through when they introduced it...Santaranger (talk) 01:25, 2 July 2013 (GMT)
Glitch or not, Harmony is broken as hell for Legendary levelling. Even without using the Mage Stone, it only takes half a dozen or so casts to go from 15 to 100 - I was doing it in the downstairs area of Blue Palace, which is chock full of NPCs if you did the Stormcloak side on the civil war - and it only took seven casts each time. With 100% magicka reduction from enchants that means you can do an entire Legendary cycle insanely fast - I gained about 20 levels in under 10 minutes. Maybe working as intended, maybe not, but it's far and away the fastest way of racking up massive numbers of levels and perks. 19:02, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

Max level for spells not showing up correctly?[edit]

I bought all three master illusion spells and have an illusion skill of 100 and all the needed perks to power these three spells. I'm also a Vampire so Champion of the Night should increase the power of these spells too, right? The article for Mayhem says the Max Level with the perks is 47. When I check the spell in my game it says level 46. (41 for Harmony and 43 for Hysteria). I made Illusion Legendary and leveled it again to 100 and didn't see any change in numbers. I'd figure that's because Kindred Mage and Animage add a different level to the spell and the game just doesn't display the higher level (If I'm not mistaken the bonus from animage is lower than the bonus from Kindred Mage). Since I'm on PS3 I can't look as much into it as I'd love to so can someone else shed some light into this?-- 15:47, 11 July 2013 (GMT)

Perk effect on poisons?[edit]

Do Illusion perks like Animage, Kindred Mage, Aspect of Terror, Rage, or MotM affect the application of poisons? Or the crafting of said poisons w/ Alchemy? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 16:02 on 15 August 2013 (GMT)

They shouldn't. Alchemy shouldn't be effected by a different skill tree. It's also unclear how Animage, Kindred Mage, Aspect of Terror, or Rage would even affect poisons, since poisons aren't limited by level from my experience. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 16:02, 15 August 2013 (GMT)
It wouldn't affect the crafting of the poisons), but it's a good question whether it would affect the effects (argh!) of the poisons. There are several examples of one tree affecting another (Alteration affected Archery and 1-H paralyzing, Destro perk affecting damage with fire/frost/shock enchanted weapons, necromage affecting everything) --AN|L (talk) 16:20, 15 August 2013 (GMT)
It still shouldn't matter here, as the damage done is tied with the poison, and not who is using it. I was under the impression the only things that matter with poisons are what the poison is, and who is being poisoned. If anyone wants to research this, be my guest, but I don't think anything will come up. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 16:28, 15 August 2013 (GMT)
I agree that the damage of the poison should not be affected, I'm wondering about the Illusion effect poisons (Fear and Frenzy), which behave like miniature illusion spells. --AN|L (talk) 16:49, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

turn fear[edit]

is turn undead a fear spell? I mean is it effected by aspect of terror the way fire spells can be if you also have intense flame?--Pseudoname (talk) 15:37, 18 October 2013 (GMT)

No. The list of spells affected by aspect of terror may be found here. Vely►t►e 21:16, 18 October 2013 (GMT)
thanks — Unsigned comment by Pseudoname (talkcontribs) at 22:55 on 18 October 2013‎


I am using the telekinesis spell for the exploit and I decided to use clairvoyance with it. It does level up illusion. I only have my follower with me. I went from castle volkihar balcony to mzulft. And it levels up. Not very fast but it does. I'm on ps3. Can anyone else verify this? Or is there something else there that I am gaining experience. I0brendan0 (talk) 02:38, 9 March 2014 (GMT)

Distinguishing between in-game descriptions and notes[edit]

A while back, I made a quick edit to clarify the effect of the Hypnotic Gaze perk, and User:The_Silencer reversed it because apparently the policy is for the Description column to be used for in-game description text, and not actual descriptions of the perks. Well, even before my edit, that policy was violated for most of the perks, so I'm not sure why my edit was singled out for reversal. In any case, I've made an attempt reorganize the table so that it both follows the policy and provides additional useful info by renaming the "Description" column to "In-Game Description" for clarity, and by adding a "Notes" column for all the valuable notes people had previously put in "Description". 18:20, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

Increases from Call to Arms higher than stated in atricle?[edit]

Hi all. So on my 3rd toon(2nd aborted after only 25 hours) I decide I want to try being a support mage in the civil war questline(buff my stormclock buddies up front, frenzy groups of enemy troops on approach, heal myself and teammates as needed, kind of like jedi battle meditation but personally present on the battlefront). This didn't work quite as planned(still try to buff as many allies as I can before charging in with my uber smithed and enchanted dragonbone sword) but I did notice something about the Call to Arms spell. I know the article says +25 to health, stamina and weapon skills, but checking those stats on some npcs in the console both before and after casting the spell shows a buff of +35, not 25. Also, Serana was not affected. I do have Master of the Mind and Kindred Mage. If this variety of spell has no level cap, unlike the other kinds which do, perhaps the +10 of Kindred Mage boosts the the effect of Call to Arms by as many points? Obviously I am on PC, but I have no mods installed. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 03:40 on 14 February 2015‎ (GMT)

You have it right. The in-game descriptions of Kindred Mage and Animage are vague and incomplete. I dug into the game data with the CK to see what they really do. In technical terms, Kindred Mage and Animage will add 10 (or 8, for Animage) to the base magnitudes (that is, before multipliers such as from fortify potions) of every Magic Effect contained in any spell, scroll, staff, potion, food item, enchantment, ability, or power (but explicitly not Shouts) that contains at least one Illusion Magic Effect (that is, a Magic Effect whose Magic Skill field is set to Illusion) and whose target is a non-undead NPC (or animal, for Animage). Call to Arms and Rally contain Illusion Magic Effects, so all their effects get boosted on appropriate targets even though there is no level limit mechanic there. Serana is only getting +25 stats instead of +35 because the "target shall not be undead" constraint of Kindred Mage (and Animage) does not take Master of the Mind into account. I assume she still has Vampirism; if you've sided with the Dawnguard, there is a point in the Dawnguard quest line where you may convince her to go cure herself. I suspect that Kindred Mage will work on her if she's cured. — Lid-Mop (talk) 22:40, 14 February 2015 (GMT)