Lore talk:Volkihar

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Dawnguard[edit]

So how exactly do we want to go about with the new Dawnguard info? Mostly everything we find out in DG contradicts what has been said in Lore. Lord Harkon presumably is the first Volkihar vampire along with his family. He made a pact with Molag Bal and the events of DG in general and Castle Volkihar. — Unsigned comment by Lore Master (talkcontribs) at 17:56 on 2 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the extent of the Volkihar clan. Obviously Harkon's family began the bloodline, straight from Molag Bal, meaning that the clan is presumably quite pure-blooded. All the info about Castle Volkihar and the clan's history will need to be included. This doesn't explain the random generic "Volkihar Vampire" enemies encountered in vanilla Skyrim and Dawnguard, who are just regular vampires. I suggest that we rewrite the page with the new Dawnguard lore, and include the conflicting old information (Immortal Blood content, info derived from the generic vamps) in a separate paragraph. —Legoless 17:14, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Does the old info really contradict what was we know? The vampires of Skyrim are of muddled blood after years and years of turning they formed lesser clans forgetting their true origins. That would fit in with the lore gathered from 'Immortal Blood' and what Harkon said about being the oldest and strongest clan in Skyrim. As to the generic "Volkihar Vampire" they are much older and thus stronger then the others because they are from a purer generation. At least to me I don't see how it contradicts the older information. --SPMcKinney 17:59, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
All vampires in skyrim are the volkihar vampires, they are just thin-blooded to the point that they are less powerful and cannot transform. The Court are not pure blooded either, they were presumably turned by harkon or another vampire but they are more pure than the vampires outside of the court. The Volkihar clan are not more pure-blooded than other vampire tribes out there either, it is just the progenitors of each clan are pure-blooded and with each generation, the bloodline gets weaker. Obviously this is now new information because before dawnguard, we didn't know that the vampires' bloodlines get more diluted with each generation or that molag bal created more vampires. Progenitors are completely pure and so are more powerful and can transform (it is unknown if other progenitors of other clans have another form) and so can who they sire. so second generation vampires can transform and it is implied by vingalmo that who ever the player sires will also be better than the diluted vampires. Molag Bal directly made more vampires, one can presume these vampires started the many clans out there. Mr.Scryer
Actually it was already known that Molag Bal created the first vampire (book from Morrowind) --SPMcKinney 18:21, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I repeat, "Molag Bal directly made MORE vampires", we originally thought he made only one, Lamae Beolfag. Mr.Scryer. 217.137.157.197
(edit conflict) Has any more evidence come to light regarding all the Skyrim vampires being Volkihar? The claim had nothing to stand on before, so I don't think we should assume it is so unless new Dawnguard lore states otherwise. In reply to SPMcKinney: the old info doesn't necessarily "contradict", but things such as the clan's ability to reach through ice isn't mentioned at all in Dawnguard (to my knowledge), so it shouldn't be considered as noteworthy as some of the newer info. The generic Volkihar Vampires being 'purer' makes sense, so I don't think that portion of the article will need much more adjusting unless we can confirm that all the vampires are Volkihar in some form or another (which may not be true, as Movarth's coven is Cyrodilic - it may be better to assume that most have no defined bloodline). —Legoless 18:36, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
They all have same face distortions, same eyes (nords, beast races and high elves now don't due to a bug) same powers, same weaknesses etc and some are called volkihar etc and there is nothing to say they are not volkihar vampires. All vampires in the game are of the same breed, the court is just purer and harkon and his family are the progenitors and they along with whoever they sire can transform. Mr.Scryer. 18:44, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
That can all be attributed to game limitations. By that logic, the Cyrodilic and Volkihar vampires are the same, which they obviously aren't. This debate was discussed to death before, so unless there's any direct source (dialogue, etc.) then we shouldn't include it in lore. —Legoless 18:49, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

() Not really, the situation is different, the order burns in the sun, volks don't, order has red irises and white eyeballs, the volks had black eye balls and orange eyes (now bright glowing yellow eyes) they share some similar powers and feeding methods (could be out of preference) but that could be down to laziness of bethesda or if for a possible in-universe theory, volks had that first, and the order were unknowingly given the same powers by clavicus vile. (they asked clavicus vile for more power but he is known to be a trickster) Anyway back to the point, there is no proof that they are not volkihar and there is some proof that they are. something being called a "volkihar vampire" or "volkihar master vampire" cannot be undone by "game limitations" and you can't prove that volkihar vampires looking the same etc as a fledgling vampire is due to game limitations and there is proof in dialogue more or less, fura calls them thin-bloods (implying they are thin-blooded versions of the court) and vingalmo makes some comment about them being brutish creatures caused by accidental infection. That may not be much to go on but there is nothing that contradicts them being volkihars. If possible and you really need more to go on, then talk to a dev about it.Mr.Scryer. 19:07, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

My point was that there is one confirmed Cyrodilic vampire in Skyrim, as I mentioned above. The dialogue may be something to go on though. —Legoless 19:16, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
If some are called Volkihar and some are not, that implies that the ones not called Volkihar are, in fact, not Volkihar, or are of indeterminate origin. So we can't say that 'all vampires except Piquine' are Volkihar, nor even the majority of Skyrim's vampires (unless dialogue or rough estimates show it). We can only say that some are, not all.
The fact that they look similar shouldn't matter too much. All werewolves look exactly, 100% the same, so are they the same NPC? No, just a re-used model. We can't base too much on appearances. Vely►Talk►Email 19:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Ahh ok Mr.Scryer I understand what you said now...sorry the brain doesn't like to work (sadly not uncommon so I can be confused a lot) but it seems we share the same thought on the vampires and reached the same understanding...O thank you for the first vampires name, the book was a good read can't believe I haven't read it yet. (Case and point of brain not workin this was originally supposed to be one post after I was given the name) --SPMcKinney 19:29, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
No problem, it happens XD.
@the others.
They all have the same powers and weaknesses and there is nothing saying they are not volkihar but again I say ask a dev instead if you really want to know for sure. Movarth was indeed attacked by an order vampire but that does not mean he was turned by one, people are just connecting dots and assuming that, it is equally possible that his last mission which was to kill a volkihar resulted in him getting infected. Anyway, what are we going to do with the page then? Mr.Scryer. 19:34, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Are you serious? Your last comment made no sense whatsoever. If I get attacked by a Quarra Vampire....somehow I became a Volkihar. Remember he didn't land the first blow or the last implying he was "killed" by Cyrodiilic Vampire. Thus we can infer he became a Cyrodiilic vampire. You don't need someone to say "Hey yeah, I turned him OK?" To speculate he became a Volkihar just cause he's in Skyrim and the game model base him as such....it's like calling a Nord a Dark elf cause he was in Morrowind. --Lore Master 20:02, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
If he was already infected by a volkihar (who he went out to kill and not to mention got ambushed by)and then killed by another vampire type, that would not necessarily make him into an order vampire (which is what attacked him last), and I was only throwing that out there because all we know is that he is now a vampire and the last vampires he encountered were the volkihar and the order. This is not the topic anyway,so lets get back to is shall we? we are trying to figure out how to include the new info onto the page and everyone is currently unsure whether or not the vampires(or at least some of them) in skyrim are the volkihar. Mr.Scryer. 20:14, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

() I've extracted Fura's dialogue on the feral "thin-blooded" vampires. —Legoless 20:40, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

So what are we going to do about it? are we now to add info that "all vampires in skyrim" are the volkihar? or is more info on the subject needed? Mr.Scryer. 20:46, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't see anything which suggests they're Volkihar. "Thin-blooded" seems to only mean that they're further from Molag Bal. "Feral vampire" indicates that they have no relation to the actual clan. And, as Vely said, some of the generic vamps are specifically called "Volkihar", implying that the others aren't. —Legoless 21:00, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Further from Harkon you mean, Molag bal is not a pure vampire or a vampire in general, Harkon is a pure-blood though. Feral vampires are just that...feral, it does not mean that they are not part of the bloodline and the volkihar is a bloodline, not an organisation. Anyway, if there is no info either way then let us leave it for now, best contact a dev, info from bethesda would have weight. Mr.Scryer. 21:07, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Developer information isn't worth much on lore articles, but it would definitely help clarify if anyone can get in touch. I wasn't implying Molag Bal was a vampire. —Legoless 21:10, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I know you didn't so its ok XD but only a vampire bloodline would count when comes to blood purity. A few devs hang around forum.bethesda right? anyone got an account there? Mr.Scryer. 21:14, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Curious Body[edit]

Walking along a track a little way ESE of "Twilight Sepulchre" two bodies containing standard Vigilant of Stendarr treasure were encountered. One was a "Vigilant of Stendarr". The second was tagged as a "Volkihar Vampire's Vigilant of Stendarr" and appeared as a deceased Vigilant of Stendarr surrounded by a purple aura. Upon investigatiion of the second body, the aura disappeared, and the body now appears as just a Vigilant of Stendarr. Walking towards the bodies from the east was a Volkihar Vampire. Upon dispatching the vampire, the second body turned into a pile of ash with the same amount of treasure. The first body could be resurrected from the console, the second could not. What do we make of this? A Vigilant of Stendarr summoned by a Volkihar Vampire attacking another Vigilant? Not likely. A revenant spell cast on a dead Vigilant still showing active effects?--Lmstearn (talk) 12:20, 7 December 2013 (GMT)

I strongly believe this is just an outcome of a World Interaction, where one vigilant was reanimated by the vampire after his death and the reanimation spell somehow glitched... -- SarthesArai Talk 16:35, 7 December 2013 (GMT)

Blood, generations, and vampire lord?[edit]

Where exactly does it say that the blood thins upon each generation and they eventually lose the vampire lord ability? We (presumably) know that all daughters of coldhoubor and pure blooded vampires are vampire lords, as well that any existing vampire lord can give the power to (presumably) anyone, so how does this play into that, and taking this all into account who exactly (that we know of) are vampire lords? Harkon is, and the information provided points Serana as well as as Valerica in that direction as well. (Kelis98 (talk) 06:07, 16 October 2017 (UTC))