Lore talk:Yaghra

Artificial Race?

This seems like a miscategorisation to me. Yaghra belong firmly in the Bestiary section of lorespace alongside the likes of Kwama; they are not an intelligent race.

Separately, what is this about yaghra being artificial? As far as I know, they are biological deep sea creatures, and I can't see anything to contradict that on the page. —⁠Legoless (talk) 18:03, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe there was something about them being changed in some way by the sload? Not 100% on that, but that's what comes to mind immediately.

EDIT: This line appears on B'Korgen's page: "The Divine Prosecution soon obtained information indicating that B'Korgen employed alchemy to empower the Abyssal Cabal and transform Yaghra into more formidable adversaries." I think that's what I was thinking of. Jeancey (talk) 18:15, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Around half of the actual info on Yaghra comes from the Prima Guide, I would start looking there for the info to back this up. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 18:30, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

The information about them being intelligent comes from the prima guide. They are artifical in that they were evolved from lesser crustaceans by the sea sload, as stated in the prima guide, the term being "created from". The prima guide also states they have a complex social hierarchy, using language like "respect, bond commander" that one would use to describe hierarchy between intelligent beings. And most notably, it states Yahgra striders worship the sea sloads, in a religious sense.Tarponpet (talk) 18:34, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Having read the entries from the Prima guide, I cannot see how the yaghra are any more artificial than a dog. Whether they were created by the Sea Sload or not, I would not describe these sea creatures as artificial.

I still fail to see any good reason to categorise yaghra as a race. There is no evidence of toolmaking, culture, or language. Having a social hierarchy based on phenotype makes them no different than kwama. —⁠Legoless (talk) 19:20, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Once again, social hierarchy alone isn't what makes them intelligent. I'd argue the reference to worship alone is enough. The Yaghra Strider and other descriptions have interesting word choices you wouldn't describe for animal. "Striders show an impressive amount of Unwavering loyalty to the greater Monstrosities, whom they view as their leaders. They also seem to revere Sea Sloads as their gods." They wouldn't say they "view" the Monstrosities as such a thing if there was no thought involved. Additionally from their own description describes them as, "steadfast commanders". The language being used indicates they are intelligent beings, and again, being cpaaable worship is proof enough in my book. But the rest of the descriptions make it more clear.Tarponpet (talk) 19:27, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

There is an awful lot of speculation involved if the descriptions you quote are the primary basis for labelling yaghra as a race. Possessing social intelligence does not make these creatures comparable to a Nord. They really do not need to be in both categories. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

To me there are a few key factors when it comes to the classification of Yaghra to me. I believe they are more akin to Hadolid, and Dreugh than to Kraken or Slaughterfish. I think it is worth mentioning that:

1)They are known to have a religion, which is a trait typically associated with people rather than animals.

2)There are known individuals named Yaghra, all following similar naming patterns. (This is a rather weak argument, however)

3)This book Lore:Indirim's Journal, Assembled describes them as "servants", and has Sload speak to them using both spoken language and magic, indicating that they are capable to some degree of communication with their Sload masters.Tyrvarion (talk) 15:05, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the combination of the Summerset Prima Guide's description of Yaghra as worshipping Sea Sload, Indirim's Journal referring to them as servants and using language, and them having a social hierarchy together fits the core requirements of what can be considered a race. The usage of the words "commanders", "soldiers", and "servants" together would be an odd way to refer to non-sapient creatures (particularly servants). Additionally, Indirim saying that B'Korgen spoke directly into his Yaghra servants minds using mind magic and then saying the magic worked on him and his marines when they got too close seems to indicate no difference between the magic being used on a Yaghra and Indirim's race. Floognoodle (talk) 15:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Wasn't aware of any of the above, thanks Tyr. Quite aside from this categorisation discussion, I think it would be good to update the article to better use these sources and make this characterisation more clear. —⁠Legoless (talk) 15:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

They meet multiple requirements of being a race in my view, they worship, communicate, have social hierarchy. The prima guide especially implies they are a sentient race. Imperialbattlespire (talk) 15:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)