User talk:Rpeh/Arc 201108

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This is an archive of past User talk:Rpeh discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Jakben - revisited v2[edit]

Hey Rpeh! I hope this is the last time, we’ll have to deal with this annoying guy, but it’s about time we figure it out. My main reason for going back to him once again is my own incredibly ugly VN-tag, and the fact that we never found out what is going on. Based on our old investigations (archived here and, especially, here) it seems Jak has a few issues with his 6am sleeping session in the basement. Something he shouldn’t be able to do in the first place due to lack of bed and relevant key, but does anyway – at least before the quest is initiated, because:

I tested Jakbens behavior right before initiating the quest, and after - same save-file and everything – and it turns out that Jakben will skip his 6am sleeping package the moment you talk to the Gray Fox about the quest (stage 20). This could be a bug, or it could be intended – but stage 20 must change Jakben’s schedule/house ownership/faction so that he will not enter the basement. Can you see any explanation anywhere in the CS? It’s definitely worth noting on all pages (both of them!), so if you can figure out the problem, then we can more or less delete that VN-tag – and I can delete half my to-do list! Hope you’re up for a final round with Jakben! --Krusty 08:49, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Yup, there's a condition on that package. It only runs if TG10Boots < 25 OR TG10Boots > 30. Slightly odd numbers since there's no stage 25, but that's the reason. rpeh •TCE 09:45, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Ah, I think the bug is that no Stage 25 exists. That is why you are “asked to investigate” Jakben’s whereabouts, and doesn’t receive a quest update when you ask the beggars. Because of the missing quest stage, Jakben’s schedule breaks and he will never return to his old sleeping habits. Makes sense now. If you agree, I’ll try and put together the bug description for both pages. --Krusty 10:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
That explains a lot. Yup, sounds good. ||||
More testing, and this time the “steal the boots prematurely”-theory that we once discussed here (at the very bottom). This should be the last bug for now, but check this out:
  • Stole the boots from Jakben just before receiving the Boots quest from Amusei (after Arrow of Extrication and 800 gold quest update in Independent Thievery). This caused trouble. Firstly, Amusei wouldn’t give me the quest. The Gray Fox spawned (without a chair) in Ganredhel’s house, saying “I assume you found Springheel Jak's tomb.”, but with no dialogue options to hand him the boots – and no option to drop the boots either; no dialogue options from Jakben and a locked tomb without any key in existence. Solution: NONE.
  • Stole the boots right after completing Taking Care of Lex. Again, the Boots quest update and map marker to Ganredhel’s house, but no Gray Fox present. Updated Independent Thievery to 600 gold and waited for Methredhel. She arrived and started Turning a Blind Eye as normal. Unfortunately, despite the new map marker, no Gray Fox in Helvia Cecia’s house. Checked Gandredhel’s house again, and THERE was the Gray Fox, with no chair, but willing to start the Eye quest.
All in all, it is safe to assume that this will break the quest line – not right away, as you can probably finish everything (from the wrong house) up until Boots of Springheel Jak – and then you will be stuck forever. However, I still have to test if the 800 gold update in Independent Thievery will change the Fox’s dialogue – but I seriously doubt it, as the game will have to revert from a quest stage already received. Also, I just saw that I fenced over 2500 worth of gold before Arrow of Extrication, so I have no saves to test that minor detail. I’ll try and add some of these observations on the relevant talk pages, but I wanted to ask, if there is any additional testing needed to confirm this 100% ? --Krusty 20:19, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Nothing springs to mind... I agree that it's unlikely the 800 gold update will change anything. You'll already have gone past that quest update by reaching the boots update, and a quick glance at the quest scripting makes me think that'll take precedence. I'll see if I can think of anything else, but it sounds like you've pretty much covered it. rpeh •TCE 12:23, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Sounds great. I'll get back to "normal" project work on Jakben - in the meantime, I made a proposal for the many Thieves Guild bugs on the CP. I'll also add the bug to Jakben's page and the quest page as well - these things are pretty serious and they're worthy of a little redundancy. --Krusty 13:21, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Hey Rob! Ever since our discovery of the missing quest stage in Boots of Springheel Jak, I’ve been thinking about adding a bug note to all the poor beggars who will help you – but not provide any Stage 25 quest update, even if they have map markers and everything. Yay or nay to a bug note for all 6(?) Imperial City beggars? --Krusty 22:32, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Ah well, I'll go ahead and add it - I think it's the right thing to do. --Krusty 22:59, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Look... whatever. You've done more research here than I have, so whatever you think is fine. rpeh •TCE 23:23, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Restoring[edit]

Hey, rpeh! If it isn't too much trouble could you delete and restore Oblivion talk:Glitches without the recent edits by Yoblivio. That is, if you think it's appropriate. I only request this because his/her edits were not in any way controversial (just editing another's post and making unproductive replies like "no" and "calm down"). Thanks.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 15:35, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not Rpeh, but if you take a look at that page's history you will realize that a few bad edits are nothing to worry about, especially on heavily edited pages like Glitches. The "restore to delete"-thing is for serious vandalism only - and to remove obscenities from the page histories. --Krusty 15:57, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
I suppose that makes sense. :D I'll be sure to store this away in my mental notes on the site's more... practical (meaning unwritten) policies.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 16:45, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
I think Krusty's right - that would be a bit excessive in this case. Don't forget though that we now have the Oversight extension, so delete/restore isn't necessary. We can just hide any revision we don't like. rpeh •TCE 16:59, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Heh, sorry I missed this. Sounds like a good idea to me (using Oversight) though it's not especially necessary.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 01:57, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
To add my own opinion, I think removing the edits from the history is excessive. They've been undone, and contain no offensive content. --Legoless 02:14, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

UESPWiki:Images in Use[edit]

I was just wanted to know if you wanted to continue to use this? I just recently discovered it but noticed you also made the Category:Images-Linked But Not Embedded recently. Elliot (talk) 04:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Wow, I'd completely forgotten about that page. Using both wuold be best, 'cos categories have some advantages over being linked from a page. Thanks for finding that one. rpeh •TCE 05:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
While we are talking about images, I just discovered [[:Category:Unused_Images|this small category]]. I am thinking that it should be deleted because the above pages cover what is necessary. Also, we normally delete unused images. Elliot (talk) 15:17, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Propose it for deletion and I'll kill it in a week. rpeh •TCE 16:26, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Another Quickie[edit]

Hey Rpeh! Once again, a quick dialogue-condition check in the CS, this time for Ajum-Kajin. There are two lines I can’t trigger – and one line where I am most interested in the conditions. The two (apparently) unused lines are: "I'm not going anywhere with you. I can't trust you not to kill me." (InfoRefusal) and "I am at your mercy for now, scum." (Hello). The line I can trigger is: "You are a fool to be here." – but only when I run through Glademist Cave without killing any of the Blackwater Gaurds (when they’re all killed, the dialogue will be different). So I figured, instead of me killing 1,2, 3 Blackwater Guards at a time for testing, maybe you can help me quicker. Thanks in advance! --Krusty 19:07, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

The hello line should trigger if you're at stage 30+ of the quest - ie, he's agreed to come back with you. Being a HELLO line it'll only trigger pretty much at random when he's near you, though, which will make it tricky. The other one seems to be untriggerable as it requires you to kill at least 10 Blackwood Company Guards. Since there are only 7, that might be tricky. I can't see any way in which you could make that happen without using the console. Even killing the guards in Water's Edge won't work as they don't have the script. rpeh •TCE 08:29, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Okay, as I understand it, the two unused lines will remain unused - as I suspect that the InfoRefusal-line is the one with 10 kills required. One last thing, just to make sure I understand you correctly; does the You are a fool to be here-line have a no-guards-killed- type condition? --Krusty 08:37, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
The Fool line has a GuardsKilled<6 and 10<=Quest<=20 condition. rpeh •TCE 08:56, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Mod Information[edit]

I was thinking of making some pages here about my mods (User:DKong27/Mods#Mods by Me). At this point mainly just one page describing and basic stuff. One main point was that I am better at wiki editing than at using BBCode or whatever in my TESNexus descriptions. But anyway, I just wanted to check that this doesn't break any rules on the wiki or anything...Just want to be safe. And if it is alright, than if I should put them in my userspace or in TES4Mod space. I am preferring userspace at the moment, to make it more by my standards than those. --DKong27 Tk Ctr Em 04:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I certainly have no problem with you doing that. If these are BIG - let's say KotN size or larger - then I'd suggest asking on the CP. If they're small, just go ahead and do 'em. Userspace is probably best for now, but they can always be moved to Tes4Mod at a later date if you like. If you think that's likely, I'd suggest using a template like {{TR3}} to to any links between the pages, because it'll make the move a lot, lot easier. rpeh •TCE 09:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Delete Account Please[edit]

Quite self explanatory. Ess-Tee 14:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

No can do, I'm afraid. Once you've created an account it's there for good. Just don't use it any more. rpeh •TCE 14:58, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Thankyou. Ess-Tee 15:00, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Incomplete Tag on Oblivion:Horses[edit]

You added an imcomplete tag on Oblivion:Horses over a year ago. What did you mean by 'Could use details of the owners for more horses'? mxk101Talk 17:56, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Several of the horses have owners, and I'd like the article to indicate which horses are owned by which people or factions. Just for completeness. rpeh •TCE 19:12, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure on how to present that information. The Chestnut Handy Stables has 4 bay horses and they are all owned by different factions. Any ideas? mxk101Talk 19:57, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Sandbox it. A list of refids with owners might be the way to go, but I'm not sure either. See how it works out. rpeh •TCE 20:01, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Midas Magic[edit]

I've noticed that the whole part has been removed from UESP. Though besides the '5-0' thing, I can't find anything about why, or what exacly happened? Also, xilver's link of his 'FAQ' on tesnexus is invalid since it was a link to the FAQ page on UESP, so if it really is to be deleted, at least give people the FAQ... Can you give us any more insight on the matter?

-Delanas 19:52, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid the pages were incomplete, inaccurate and generally an embarrassment to UESP so we deleted them. There was a discussion here.
If somebody wants to restart the pages and do them properly, I can undelete them and move them to the user's space to work on until they're ready for prime-time. rpeh •TCE 19:59, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Cookie![edit]

(cookie moved to jar)

A few images?[edit]

Hey Rpeh! I have been revamping Maelona and would really like to add a few images, if you have the time. Firstly, the square images of both her and Gogan needs to be replaced, but that’s not really important as of now. What I could really use is an image of her in Gweden Farm, wearing her full Anvil Watch armor. I think the quest page could use it as well. Oh, and while you are there – maybe a quick snap of Gogan in his armor, for his own page? All images in 4:3. Hope you have the time and, as always, no rush! Thanks in advance! --Krusty 14:35, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I can do it too if you want :) ~ Dwarfmp 14:41, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm having trouble with my Oblivion install at the moment, hence all the Morrowind images. Dwarfmp - you're quite welcome to do the job. I should be able to fix my computer some time over the weekend, so if nothing has happened in a few days, I'll see about doing the images then. rpeh •TCE 14:44, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
You are more than welcome, D - I'll launch the page now without images, just to get it up and running! --Krusty 15:00, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Well I'll just go ahead and discuss this here further... I think a guard-shot of both Gogan and Maelona for their page is good, and perhaps an additional quest image with both of them together like that? And on the subject, I noticed their faces being significantly different as guards (not just now, noticed it in the cs before), I know they're different NPC's, but the face seems far from identical in particular, should it be noted? ~ Dwarfmp 15:51, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
We already mention that Gogan is a different NPC (GoganGuard) on his own page, so Maelona will need a similar note (can't add that as it is a CS thing). As for the images, good question - I never noticed the difference, but I can see what you mean. Still, there's probably no need to mention it on the file. Both of them in the same shot for the quest page would be great! --Krusty 15:56, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
I think I've gotten all the images you needed. Maybe Maelona's page needs an image of Gogan to break up the text a bit ~ Dwarfmp 17:01, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
I'd like an image of Gogan,in 4:3. I was thinking about cutting off the NPC image, but if you can take a new image it would be great! --Krusty 17:06, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Um I can just upload a 4:3 version of the original file, of course I can just take another shot, but I wouldn't know what exactly that would be ~ Dwarfmp 17:10, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
A 4:3 version would be great - just use the original image. :) Sorry for using your talk for this, Rob! --Krusty 17:14, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

S'K or S'k ?[edit]

Gah, just noticed something. I’m reworking the page for S'Krivva, and everything goes fine - but how do we really spell her name? As far as I can tell, only her in-game persona (and maybe her house) uses the capital ‘K’, while my entire dialogue sheet, her key, and everyone else in the game refers to her as S’krivva, with a small ‘k’. Another case of Severius/Sevarius or is this just a problem inside my head? Nevertheless, I'd really like your opinion on this as I have a lot of corrections to do if we choose the big 'K'. Thanks. --Krusty 21:56, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Her CS name is definitely "S'Krivva", although her editor id is "Skrivva". J'baana uses "K" (thrice) during the security master training quest, but he seems to be the only one who does. There's nothing in any book.
S'Krivva is the only Khajiit who uses a capita letter after the apostrophe (cf S'drassa, S'fara, etc@), although some use a capital after other letters (J'Baasha, Ma'Raska) - see the full list at Oblivion-Khajiit.
Since there's ambiguity, I'd suggest you stick with the game. Use the dialogue as-is and add a note about the discrepancy. rpeh •TCE 00:16, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Odd, but not unexpected. I'll see if I can find an "early" spot to put her note, to avoid confusion - and then simply refer from using her name as much as I can. --Krusty 01:37, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Image Deletion[edit]

I uploaded two images earlier today and I uploaded the wrong one. I then clicked 'upload a new version of this file'. I thought this would delete the old version and replace the file name with the new one. It just created a new image. Can you delete the old version as seen here → http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:11.11.11_Skyrim_Date.jpg? Was not sure where to post this, sorry if this is the wrong area --KizC 16:27, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

I've marked the image for speedy deletion. --Legoless 18:03, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Looks like Krusty beat me to it. rpeh •TCE 18:14, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks all :)--KizC 17:39, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Quick question[edit]

Hey Rpeh! I have revamped Tolgan but bumped into a line of dialogue that I cannot check in-game due to limited save files. Line is "The Countess has received word from Cloud Ruler Temple that grave matters are afoot. Nothing else concerns her at the moment." - and while it is obvious that it is part of Defence of Bruma, I'd be a happy camper if you could look up exactly WHEN he will say it? Thanks! --Krusty 23:19, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

An easy one for once! It only gets said if MQ13 >= 10 - basically, if you've started the quest but not finished it. rpeh •TCE 23:31, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Brilliant! Then I'll launch the page tonight and add a note about this line NOT being written from the game. Thx! --Krusty 23:32, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Mentor Program[edit]

I'm no foreigner to computers, games, and the internet in general. However, I don't understand the majority of the codes for adding links, creating tables, and embedding pictures. It would be awesome if you could teach me about that, as I hope to be a frequent editor once Skyrim is released. Broccollipie 00:30, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

No problem. The first thing to realise is that one newline doesn't make a new line on the page.
As

you can see if you look at the source of this page. That sentence was all on different lines in the source, but appears on the same line on the page.

Your best bet is to start by looking at our help pages - especially the Quick Editing Guide. Let me know if there's something you want specific help with. Good luck! rpeh •TCE 00:39, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, why is your bot inactive?
Broccollipie 01:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Would I be allowed to develop a bot that messes around in my sandbox?
Broccollipie 05:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
RoBoT is still in use. It last ran a couple of days ago to do some template expansion. If you want to write a bot, obviously you can - there's no way of telling if edits are being made by a person or a machine. rpeh •TCE 08:38, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

The Site keeps giving me this odd error..[edit]

"UESPwiki has a problem"..

Apparently I can't access "Recent Changes" via my main browser, Google Chrome, and it will instead just revert me to the main page with the above error placed behind the tabs for "Page", "Discussion", etc. Sometimes when I do a search for an article I pretty much get this browser's version of the 404 error and it gives me an alternative to Google searching the article. Do you know of any fix for this issue? =/

Also for the Maenlorn thing, what sort of verification do you need? I don't have a high quality recording device but I can make a video with a webcam (it won't look ABSOLUTELY horrid is what I'm saying) with my character being arrested at several different towns to see if that helps. Of course if you need additional people to try it out, then that's fine. I honestly have no idea why he is appearing with the three from the Fighter's Guild but I was arrested in Anvil and then another time in Skingrad, there he was standing right in front of them. TVthePunisher 19:28, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

If you're getting the error at around 1pm GMT, it's a known problem. At other times it's probably the same thing, but there's nothing I can do about it. Daveh is aware of the issue. The site's been very slow for me for much of the day.
For Maenlorn, somebody else getting the problem would be useful. That particular bug has never been reported before even though similar ones are well-documented. We usually don't include bugs that are specific to one person's game. Are you running any mods? rpeh •TCE 21:52, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks regarding that issue and as for Maenlorn, no I'm not running any mods. I'm on the 360 version so all I have is the official update and that's it. I did notice on the talk page for Maenlorn that a few folks actually had it happen to them as well, though unfortunately they don't have accounts on the site (just IP numbers) and the one guy who does have an account apparently just had him in random towns and so forth (which I've seen before with other characters but figured it was due to their schedules, so I kind of dismissed it). Is it common for other NPCs to appear outside of jail if you're just running the 360 version? GOTY edition btw if that helps. TVthePunisher 01:28, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I may be experiencing the same issue regarding people from the Fighter's Guild following me to jail, let me test some more and I'll get back to this one. SkoomaManiac 03:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
We know that the bug happens with some NPCs (see Oblivion:Crime#Bugs) - it's just the recent addition of Maenlorn that I'm worried about. rpeh •TCE 08:21, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Thoronir and Unfriendly Competition[edit]

Thanks for looking over that walkthrough. I'm playing through Oblivion again in anticipation of TES V and I took one look and I was like... There has to be a better way to put 98% of this... Your input was deliciously appreciated. SkoomaManiac 02:54, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

PHP Scripting[edit]

You wouldn't happen to know anything about PHP scripting would you?
I know RoBoT is in C#, but I thought you could help me out.
The problem is, my bot can make edits fine, but it won't make them as a logged in user. The weird thing is, I don't get any error about it.
I'd post the entire scripts here, but it'd probably take up too much space. So head over to one of my sandboxes.
Broccollipie 03:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't speak PHP. rpeh •TCE 08:22, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
If you were in a particularly good mood, would you semi-protect a page for me?
Not now, though. Sometime in the future....
Broccollipie 14:17, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
If there's a good reason under our Protection Policy, yes. rpeh •TCE 16:26, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Question for a page creation[edit]

Some time in the future I aim to launch a page for Oblivion:Quest_Items. I have not got very far but have already determined it will be a long page. Page progress here - How far I have gotten and some idea as to how far I have left to go. I would like to ask how to deal with such a long page. Would a split to smaller sub categories for pages e.g. weapons, apparel and miscellaneous? Or whether to use collapsible tables in the same fashion as this page? Just a thought it needs thinking about i'm unsure which way to go about it. -- Thanks --KizC ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 19:41, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Honestly, that's not too long. It looks like the final page will be around the 40-45K mark, which isn't bad. It's looking pretty good though. Well done! rpeh •TCE 07:44, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks :) i'd thought i'd ask. It just seemed a bit longer than a 'normal' page length. Currently have PC issues, so it's kind of on hold :/ ahh well -- Thanks --KizC ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 19:05, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Noinclude fun[edit]

Lore:Greymarch doesn't like me.. why? ;) Should the </noinc> bit at the end be removed too or should we avoid transcluding the whole "See Also" section? Also, hey there! XD --SerCenKing Talk 21:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I've fixed it up. Only the first part is supposed to be transcluded. The extra </noinclude> that was at the end served no purpose, because the one which had opened the tag had been removed. --Legoless 21:45, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, that's what confused me, as well as not being sure about how much was supposed to be transcluded. Thanks for fixing that up for me, I really need to get back to editing, I feel like a newbie! :) --SerCenKing Talk 21:51, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Sorry for not replying sooner. Looks like Legoless has sorted you out. Good to have you back! rpeh •TCE 07:44, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Happy Birthday Rpeh![edit]

Congratulations to over 5 years of contributions to the UESP! I know I'm a day late but Happy Birthday! --D. Gemini 22:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Same from me. It's great to have someone as hugely epxerienced as yourself contributing to the wiki.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 23:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Whoah! Here’s to five more years! --Krusty 00:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I hadn't realised I'd hit five years, but just remember I'm a mere stripling compared to Timenn (he might not use the userbox but he's been around over four months longer)! rpeh •TCE 09:24, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
A late happy anniversary from me too! --Rigas • TalkDeeds 15:58, 31 August 2011 (UTC)