User:GuildKnight/Archive/Apr-Jun2008

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Just Another Header... ;-)[edit]

I am a new to this wiki, and as an editor, new to wikis in general. I actually registered here solely for the purpose of adding my first small mod to the Oblivion Mod:Cobl/Mods because Wrye was too busy at the time to do it himself. I starting poking around on the Welcome and Helping Out pages and stumbled upon Oblivion:Making_Money as tagged as needing cleaned up. Since I learn primarily by doing, I decided to dive all the way in all at once, and attempt an almost complete rewrite of that page. And because it could easily be reverted if I totally messed it up, no permanent damage would be done.

I now have several hours into rewriting the page and about 60-70% though the page with 2 major section rewrites and several intermediate tweaks/polishings, and would like to know if my heavy-handed editing is moving the article in the right direction.

Thank you for your time, --Enterprise2001 12:24, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

GuildKnight's been temporarily taken away by Real Life, so I'll try to respond in her place ;). I haven't had a chance to look really closely at the work you've done, but what I've seen so far looks really good. There are a couple of spots I'm seeing just on a glance that could use some grammatical cleanup; also, I think those thumbnail images (of Bandits, Marauders, etc.) are unnecessary. Clicking the links to their pages will lead readers to a larger version of the same image anyway, and getting rid of them will help you make the layout even cleaner. All in all, I think you're doing a great job! I'll try to give you better feedback (and/or do a bit of cleanup to help you out) later today. –Eshetalk13:06, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
As Eshe said, I've been away for a while, but I'm probably going to be back here in a matter of weeks. Regardless, I've tried to check my talk page fairly regularly, so I just took a look at the page. When I have time, I'll look at it more closely, but on first glance, the thing that pops out at me is that "neophyte" seems to be a pretty obscure word to be included in the first paragraph of the page, which (to me) should be a brief, simple explanation of the article's subject. Other than that, though, great job, and thanks! --GuildKnightTalk2me 00:10, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
Oops! I was watching the Money Guide Talk page for this stuff... Oh, well, found it now...
There are no doubt grammar errors on the page yet. I have not gotten through rewriting all of the page yet, and when I do, I will have to walk away from it for a few days and come back to find more. Where I am taking it is a long way from where it was. It's going to be a long journey...
As for the thumbnails of the enemies, I thought they added to the page by allowing the reader to see an example of each type without loading another page. (Not every one has fast Internet access.) It also breaks up the layout a little so it isn't just a long tedious page of lists.
I've considered rewriting the introduction several times, but wasn't sure what to do with it, and decided it was more important to get through the whole page at least once first. The "And now you shall read THIS!" declarations and using 50 words where 5 would suffice, has danced on my nerves long enough...
--Enterprise2001 16:26, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Update: I am just about finished the rewrite of Oblivion:Making_Money. Any more thoughts on it? Any additions? Still think the images should go?

Your Pet Page[edit]

You state on your user page that Oblivion:Houses is your "pet page". You also say the same thing about it when you nominated it for featured status. I am considering copy-editing it as my next project since I have finished Oblivion:Making Money. The issues raised in the objections to featured article status are valid ones and I believe I can address them all pretty well.

But as a fellow editor, you are no doubt aware of the violence of copy-editing. Superfluous and redundant information must be purged without mercy, sometimes causing entire sentences or even paragraphs being eliminated. Likewise, entire paragraphs are sometimes rewritten as only a single sentence, or even phrase, so that information is presented in as clear and concise a manner as humanly possible. A cruel and bloody process indeed—one best not embarked on alone. So, I was wondering if I could count on you to answer any questions on the page that may come up since I am not totally familiar with all the houses in Oblivion.

I realize you are pretty busy with Real Life at the moment, but soon hope to return. I only wanted to give you a heads-up to let you know I may be "grooming your pet" soon and that I might have questions. (Maybe someone else on here knows how to contact you using a different manner.) I'm sure if you are simply too busy with RL that someone else will catch me if I make an error. --Enterprise2001 15:10, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

I should be back around in about a week, maybe a week and a half. I'll get with you then. You seem to have a good understanding of what it needs, so I say work on it a little in a sandbox, and we'll see what it looks like. Have fun! --GuildKnightTalk2me 18:05, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
P.S. I like the "grooming" reference. I happen to be a groomer! (or PetStylist, as my higher-ups call it.)  ;) --GuildKnightTalk2me 18:07, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
The use of "grooming" was purely by chance I assure you. LOL
"Work on it a little in a sandbox"? Uhhh.... ok... I guess. I'll try to not feel like a- err... something bad. It's at User:Enterprise2001/Houses_Groomed. I hope I did the sandbox thing right. I'm sure someone will speak up if I did not... :-)
I also realized now that every table on the page is using different background colors... Oi... <Sighs loudly and goes in search of table formatting help...> Errr... on second thought, I'll do that later (last?) LOL This may need more than I initially thought...
--Enterprise2001 23:14, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
PS:Work on it a little? Little? This is going to need more than a little work... LOL --Enterprise2001 23:17, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
FYI, it was an intentional decision to use a different colour for each table on the page. Each table uses the same colour that has been used elsewhere to identify the given city. For example, Chorrol uses the same colour as the infobox on the Chorrol article; this colour is also used to identify Chorrol on other pages such as Spell Merchants. In general, the colours were chosen to match the Mages Guild specialization of that city; so Chorrol's yellow is the same as the yellow used for all Conjuration spells and effects. --NepheleTalk 00:32, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
Hmmm... Perhaps that decision should be reconsidered? Taking out of context of just the houses, it's an inconsistency, especially since all the downloadable content shares a common table color. Wouldn't it be better to have all the vanilla houses have one color and the downloadable content have another? It's certainly not obvious that the different colors are anything but a formatting inconsistency. (But then again, I am still new here... Is there some legend I missed that stated the color codes? I was using this as a reference a while before I started editing it and didn't know anything about it...) I'd think the header would be more than enough to designate where the house is located instead of some (obscure?) color coding. Regardless, it seems that Anvil and Bravil are using the same color, that'd still be an inconsistency, right? I'd think the page would be best served with one color for vanilla housing and another for additional content. Any one else care to chime in? Even if no one agrees with me, I still need to know if Anvil and Bravil indeed share the same color...
And another question: Perhaps the dedicated pages for some of the houses aren't necessary? I'm not sure if I check them all yet, but they only have seem to have a few more lines and maybe a list of quests they are involved in. That seems a little... redundant. Wouldn't it be better to just put those few more lines on the main houses page and delete the house's dedicated page? --Enterprise2001 02:45, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
It does seem incongruous to have the mod-related houses use such an intense colour for the infoboxes. I think it would make more sense to just use the default infobox colour for the mod-related houses, and continue to use the existing colours for the city houses. The colour-coding isn't meant to be a critical part of the page, so I don't see that we need to provide a legend spelling out how the colours were chosen. The header provides the primary information, the colours are as much to prevent the page from being monotonous as to provide colour-coding. Also, Anvil and Bravil are not using the same colours: #ddddff is a light blue; #ddffdd is a light green.
As for pages such as Rosethorn Hall and Arborwatch, you may want to read first through the lengthy discussions that have already taken place about those articles, for example at Oblivion talk:Rosethorn Hall, Oblivion talk:Arborwatch, and, most importantly at UESPWiki:Deletion_Review/Oblivion:Arborwatch. --NepheleTalk 21:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
Ok, forgive my bluntness, but I feel this must be stated clearly: This site has made some poor choices for colors. Even knowing that Anvil and Bravil are using different colors, I can just barely tell. Also, Chorrol and the IC, and Layawiin and Cheydinhal are also pretty close together. Without completely slipping into lecture-mode, you need to select colors that contrast well with both the background and each other. Remember, everyone that comes here uses completely different hardware and software to view the page—all the colors must contrast enough to easily tell them apart (even if they no longer look like the colors we intended and frequently will not...). Any light-color on a light background is generally a bad idea, unless it is bordered with a medium-to-dark color to set it off. The city colors aren't the only thing I noticed with this lack of contrast problem in my short time here—the code tag is similarly afflicted. Can anyone say that clearly defines what I should be typing? (Try to view it from the perspective of not already knowing what code looks like.) Wouldn't something like this be better? (Ok... that may be a tad too much contrast, but do you see what I mean?)
I hope this doesn't offend anyone and that most/all of the colors are controlled through central templates that will make changes easy to implement. If we can decide on better contrasting colors, I will help push them over the site.
As for the previous discussions of the dedicated pages for the houses, I got the impression that eventually every house should have a dedicated page or no dedicated pages at all. That correct? I pretty much agree, though for small houses, like the IC shack, perhaps both the exterior and interior pics could go on the Oblivion:Houses page?--Enterprise2001 01:29, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Fanfiction Opportunity[edit]

GuildKnight (or should that be the Guild's Knight?), as one of editors of this site who I feel deserves this opportunity, I am offering you a chance to have a character request in my new Fancfiction project, Rise and Fall (details here) I am only offering this to a few users, and you have been selected! (how corny was that?) Anyway, if you would like me to add your character idea to the story, just let me know. I'm currently in the planning stages, so there's plenty of time. --HMSVictoryTalk 12:27, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh Snap![edit]

There's a useful little piece of information! Thanks! =) You happen to know if she speaks Russian or not? I presume that since her userbox says she's a native, she can speak the language. IWon'tFightUndead 00:58, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

The Bosmer Userbox[edit]

Nice userbox, check out THIS collection!-Puddle 22:49, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

You Weren't Wrong[edit]

One incident breaketh not a tradition! –RpehTCE 02:47, 8 June 2008 (EDT)