Skyrim talk:Smithing Expertise

So, what does it actually do?

My smithing is at 93 with and without the Notched Pickaxe equipped. Armor ratings of items to upgrade don't improve either. I cant forge daedric or dragon armor with it equipped (I dont have those perks yet.) I cant see any in-game increase of anything while equipped. Well, the shock part works. But why would I use a pickaxe to fight with? (Other than destroying it and learning the enchantment for something else.) I get that it's a Minecraft easter egg, so maybe it doesnt actually do anything. Or a bug. --Morlok8k

Anyone have any real details/stats on Smithing Expertise?

I've seen elsewhere that either the Smithing part is bugged or it affects your Smithing just like every other Fortify Smithing effect i.e. only when improving weapons/armor. I have no first-hand experience with it myself. --Fluff 05:28, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

So just checked again, no stat changes with patch 1.2 and 1.3 (xbox 360) --Morlok8k

I checked and did not receive any bonus from the Notched Pickaxe for weapon or armor improvement at 100 skill level.

same here - I improved 2 Daedric swords using the maximal Fortify Smithing arrangement of 4 +29% smithing items with a 130% smithing potion. On the 1st sword, I equipped the Notched Pickaxe. On the 2nd improvement, I left the pickaxe at home. After improvement, both swords had exactly the same damage output (280). Then I disenchanted the Notched Pickaxe and applied the enchantment to both swords, creating 2 Swords of Notched Pickaxeness. Then I equipped the swords and made a 3rd sword. I improved it as before but with both Swords of Notched Pickaxeness equipped. Again the damage output was 280. Basically it appears to do nothing. (I added this finding to the notes section of this page "The Smithing enhancement does not stack with Fortify Smithing bonuses from other types of item e.g. rings, necklaces etc") Skyrim is ruled by the Nerds. Literat 22:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

It could simply be that a 5 bonus is not noticeable because your smithing at 350ish so 355 shows no change. It may work but be a rather minor boost that late game is rather useless. The easiest test would be to put your smithing at 90, you should not be able to craft legendary until level 91, equip the pickaxe. If you can now craft legendary weapons the effect works and you are effectively at 95. If not it doesnt. comparing a +5 bonus against a skill of 350 is not a good test--Lord.Baal 19:33, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Lord.Baal, I just checked this out with my character. She has 53 Smithing. With the Elven Smithing perk I need to have 4 more points into Smithing to upgrade an Elven item from Exquisite (40) to Flawless (57). The Notched Pickaxe gives 5 to Smithing Expertise, which would lead me to believe that by having it equipped while improving an item and while having only 53 in Smithing, that I would be able to improve to Flawless. That was not the case. Having the Notched Pickaxe equipped showed no increase in my smithing abilities from Exquisite to Flawless. Whether or not it does something else though, is beyond me. -MetalJoe-

someone will have to look at this when the construction kit comes out. I cant see the +5 smithing anywhere. (at least on the Xbox360) -Morlok8k

I, for one, can report it does do something. Once I had 100 Smithing in my current game, I made a full set of Dragonscale armor, a Legendary Skyforge Steel Sword and a Legendary Nord Hero Bow. Later, when I found the Notched Pickaxe, I could upgrade all of these past the Legendary status. Later I switched the Skyforge Steel Sword for Blades Sword, also upgraded with the Pickaxe. Now: I have 90 One-Handed and 5/5 Armsman, so my Legendary Blades Sword should display 2 * 1.45 * 22 = 63.8 damage; it displays 66 damage. Assuming the formula on the Skyrim:Smithing for items past Legendary is correct, the 66 displayed damage is spot-on for an item that fortifies Smithing by 5: Every point over 100 gives additional 0.1 damage bonus to weapons, so my Legendary Blades Sword does 22.5 base damage, which multiplied by 2 * 1.45 is 65.25 - or 66 rounded up. 178.183.240.226 20:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Every point over 100 doesn't give an additional 0.1 bonus, that was just an approximation. It appears to increases in the same manner as earlier levels, it just doesn't change the name. With 90 One-Handed and 5/5 Armsman, you see 32 for a base (11 * 2 * 1.45) = 31.9. With 100 smithing skill, I'm getting (21 * 2 * 1.45) = 60.9, for a displayed value of 61. Wielding the notched pickaxe isn't changing that. FYI, the listed base for the Blade sword was wrong - someone changed it from 11 to 12 (I'm assuming your 22 is from 12+10), but 11 is actually the correct value. Vardis 01:25, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps the bullet on the Smithing Expertise came after the above discussion, but could the problem/confusion just be that the Notched Pickaxe doesn't stack? (If indeed it doesn't stack, it makes it pretty worthless.) -RedKnight 21:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I removed the text indicating that it doesn't stack. I found it to have no effect at all when tested under various scenarios. Vardis 01:46, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the CK, the reason why there is no effect is because the actual Magic Effect is not included in the Enchantment for the Notched Pickaxe. The actual Enchantment is called Notched Pickaxe but the only Magic Effect under the Enchantment, ironically misnamed as Smithing Expertise, is the Shock Damage Magic Effect. The Magic Effect that increases Smithing skill by 5 points is also named Notched Pickaxe in the CK and it's not part of the Notched Pickaxe Enchantment (which is the only Enchantment on the Notched Pickaxe). Unlike, for example, the Fiery Soul Trap Enchantment which has both a Soul Trap Magic Effect and a Fire Damage Magic Effect, it can't actually be placed on the Enchantment with the Shock Damage Magic Effect because multiple Magic Effects on the same Enchantment have to have the same Delivery value and the Delivery value for Shock Damage is Contact while the Delivery value for the Notched Pickaxe Magic Effect is Self. As an aside the CK shows that Smithing Expertise is the name of an Ability which gives the Notched Pickaxe Magic Effect.--DagmarH (talk) 06:14, 20 September 2012 (GMT)

It is included. The effect of the notched pickaxe dunVoluunruudPickaxeEffect (Smithing Expertise) is 5 points shock damage. But it also has the equip ability of "dunVolunruudPickaxeAbQuip" (Smithing Expertise), which is a spell that gives 5 points of the dunVolunruudPickaxeEquipEffect. This effect displays as "Raises the user's Smithing abilieis by <mag> points. So whatever the problem is, it looks like it is something else. --Alfwyn (talk) 16:52, 21 September 2012 (GMT)

Where are you seeing that the Notched Pickaxe gives the Ability? I already noted the existence of the Ability but I see nothing to indicate that the weapon gives the Ability. The weapon is called dunVolunruudPickaxe and there is nothing in the Editor window for it indicating it gives the Ability. I'm not aware of any item in the game giving a Magic Effect to a character through anything except an Enchantment and while my knowledge of the CK is limited I don't know of any way of getting any weapon to give you an Ability with the CK as it can't be done by editing the Editor window of a weapon. In addition, Ability effects are supposed to show up in the Active Effects window but there is no Active Effect from the Notched Pickaxe displayed in the Active Effects window so unless you can point to a link between the weapon and the Ability in the CK or elsewhere it seems premature to conclude that it's included as an effect of the Notched Pickaxe merely because the Ability exists in the game data. --DagmarH (talk) 06:20, 25 September 2012 (GMT)

The chain goes like this: dunVolunruudPickaxe has the enchantment dunVolunruudPickaxeEnch (found under Magic/Enchantment). Double clicking the Smithing Expertise effect, we see it gives the dunVolunruudPickaxeEffect (found under Maigc/Magic Effect). At the bottom of that window we see "Equip Ability: dunVolunruudPickaxeAbEqip" (found under Magic/Spell/Ability). Double clicking on the effect there (noting the 5 points) we see it gives dunVolunruudPickaxeEquipEffect found under Magic/Magic Effect. This finally is an aleration effect modifying Smithing.

But all the CK digging aside, since equipping the pickaxe shows the description text of dunVolunruudPickaxeEquipEffect in the active effects (a text not found elsewhere) should be proof enough the effect takes place somehow. But I see you don't seem to get that - I get it as soon as I equip the pickaxe, called "Notched Pickaxe" (PC version 1.7.7.0.6).

I have two theories that would need testing why the effect doesn't really work. The first, looking at the formulas at Skyrim:Smithing we see, that a 5 point increase will have next to no effect and would need a careful testing setup to be noticed at all. The second is, it may be that weapons get automatically unequipped while smithing (my animation does this) and re-equipped later - that would of course make the enchantment pointless. --Alfwyn (talk) 11:15, 25 September 2012 (GMT)

Weapons don't automatically unequip while smithing. If you mean they're no longer drawn that's true but as long as the weapon still shows up sheathed at your hip or on your back it's the visual indicator that it's still equipped and the notched pickaxe can be seen sheathed on the right hip during any smithing process. The effect may be running but it gives no actual Smithing skill bonus. Unlike the only other item I can think of right now that gives a fixed increase in a skill, the Amulet of Dibella, the Notched Pickaxe smithing bonus doesn't show up as an increase to the skill in green in the Skills window and doesn't show up with the GetAvInfo Smithing command. It could be that the scripts for the effect are simply broken but there doesn't appear to be any actual Smithing bonus given by the effect.--DagmarH (talk) 05:57, 26 September 2012 (GMT)

It might be, that the dunVolunruudPickaxeEquipEffect is bugged. Looking at the Dibella amulet I created a mini-mod by just setting the "recover" flag in dunVolunruudPickaxeEquipEffect - now after equipping the pickaxe, it shows up a +5 skill increase as green number in the skill menu. --Alfwyn (talk) 15:00, 26 September 2012 (GMT)

Ok, and to finally answer the question what it actually does (without my mod), it heals smithing damage (the magnitude is probably the healing rate). Simple experiment player.damageAV smithing 10. Now, no matter how long you wait, your smithing will show 10 points lower. Now equip the notched pickaxe, and the value will return to it's former value over time (quite rapidly). --Alfwyn (talk) 15:20, 26 September 2012 (GMT)

Nice find. I've put the bug note back in and updated it with your findings. I'd found it had no enhancement effect when testing a while back, but didn't follow up on it. Thanks for that. -Vardis (talk) 02:36, 27 September 2012 (GMT)

Maybe its similer to fortify alchemy bug from oblivion? Dunehelm (talk) 06:28, 22 April 2014 (GMT)

Name of effect

In my game the effect appears as "Notched Pickaxe" not "Smithing Expertise" at the Arcane Enchanter. I don't know if this difference is due to a patch or what. Is anyone else finding this and, if so, should the name of the page be changed? Foubister 08:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Also seeing this. 174.6.51.17 23:43, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Notched Pickaxe is the name of the Enchantment. Smithing Expertise is the name of Ability that gives this Magic Effect.--DagmarH (talk) 06:19, 20 September 2012 (GMT)

Do enchanted weapons act as pickaxes?

I have yet to recover this weapon, and will test as soon as I do... but has anyone tried this out yet? Does enchanting, say, a dagger with this enchantment allow you to mine with it? 50.84.104.197 00:50, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I seriously doubt it. Being able to mine is dependent on you having a pickaxe, not dependent on any enchantment. Enchanting a dagger with smithing expertise wouldn't make the dagger a pickaxe, just an enchanted dagger.--Razorsoup 00:55, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Confirmed. There are precisely three types of items you can mine with in Skyrim: a Pickaxe, a Notched Pickaxe and Rocksplinter. – Robin Hood↝talk 06:22, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Fortify restoration

Does the fortify restoration glitch apply to this effect?--166.168.235.97 05:02, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Since the effect doesn't work in the first place, no. -Vardis (talk) 02:38, 27 September 2012 (GMT)

Hang on - as the enchant has an offensive AND passive effect, maybe fortify restoration would increase the shock value? (As a side effect perhaps - because it would technically increase the secondary "smith" value - but as discussed above that has been set up incorrectly)

Can anyone on PC please test and confirm? That would be especially handy as an enchanter who has dual enchants too... Fortify Restoration could potentially increase the potency of both enchants! -HK 87.86.169.66 13:13, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

Restores damage done?

What the heck does this article mean when it says "restores damage to your Smithing skill?" How exactly does the smithing skill get "damaged" in the first place when there's no effect that lowers the skill except with console commands?!70.178.160.32 08:56, 24 June 2013 (GMT)

This is actually a good question as I was wondering the same thing myself. What about enchanting? What effect does it have if placed on a new weapon? Does it work as stated and expected, or is it equally as useless? — Unsigned comment by ‎70.60.56.210 (talk) at 16:47 on September 22, 2014

The enchantment itself is bugged, so putting it on a different item will make no difference. The Smithing skill doesn't get damaged in normal gameplay, so unpatched the enchantment is basically useless, as all it does is restore your Smithing skill to its base value in 5-point increments, rather than increasing it by 5 points. -- Hargrimm^(T) 16:58, 7 October 2014 (GMT)

Unofficial Skyrim Patch makes this unattainable?

I'm looking in the disenchantment list and the Notched Pickaxe doesn't show. I looked through the notes and found this in v1.3.3 patch notes:

The Notched Pickaxe (dunVolunruudPickaxe) found at Throat of the World should not be allowed to be disenchanted due to its unique status. (Bug #12068)

Ironically, v2.0.0 has this:

The smithing perk applied by the Notched Pickaxe (dunVolunruudPickaxeEquipEffect) was incorrectly set as a "Value Modifier" instead of "Peak Value Modifier" which resulted in it trying to restore damage to the smithing skill instead of fortifying it as intended. (Bug #13484)

So they made it unattainable then fixed the unattainable? Am I reading this right? Am I the only one that can't disenchant the Notched Pickaxe? --FordGT90Concept (talk) 08:31, 21 April 2016 (UTC)