Skyrim talk:Marise Aravel

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Randomly died?[edit]

I found her corpse on one of the little bridges near the marketplace in Riften. There haven't been any dragon attacks, and I most certainly didn't kill her. Is this part of some scripted event, or is it just a bug? Also, does she matter? I don't really want to go dig into old saves.. 05:37, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I had the same thing happen except I witnessed her being randomly killed by Aerin and Mjoll the Lioness. I'm not sure what provoked them as I only saw them chasing her half way threw the attack. No one else in Riften tried to intervene, not even the guards.
I'm guessing its some sort of aggro bug, or Marise picked something that wasn't hers off the street and got killed for it, not sure. Very strange all the same.- Jake Command Wolf 23:55, 3 March 2012‎ (GMT)
Brand-Shei and Marise will fight over some random dispute for some reason, they usually stop after one goes into submission, but sometimes they will keep going at it until someone dies (personal experience) Luke, may the potato be with you. 20:29, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

() I just watched Bersi Honey-Hand kill her. It happened during Brynjolf's sales pitch, which I initiated just after business hours. My guess is she steals something from a stall around this time. I'll run a test, and add an entry to the bugs section. --Tingz0r (talk) 21:22, 6 September 2013 (GMT)

Okay, new theory. Her chart in the marketplace is full of food. An NPC who eats food, doesn't matter who, might randomly approach her chart and steal something, if circumstances dictate that they're outside in the marketplace instead of where they should be at the normal time that they eat. In my experience, it was Brynjolf's sales pitch. This causes her to aggro, but she is very weak, and gets killed easily. --Tingz0r (talk) 16:20, 10 September 2013 (GMT)
Interesting theory. The only problem is that unlike in Oblivion, I don't think that NPC's in Skyrim actually pick up food from their surroundings to eat, I think the food spawns in their inventory. --AN|L (talk) 16:35, 10 September 2013 (GMT)
I've seen them make grabbing motions and search containers, although I guess that doesn't necessarily mean they're actually 'taking' anything. Still, that's my best guess. I also realized I spelled cart "chart." Seemed right at the time. I'm not changing it. --Tingz0r (talk) 19:59, 11 September 2013 (GMT)

() Fast traveled to Riften to train/sell to Grelka. I arrived at about 4:44 p.m. I finished selling and dropped a falsely flagged "stolen" item to see if it would unflag. It didn't but I stealthed to pick it up again. I wasn't sure I had been quick enough since it said "detected" just as I picked it up, but I didn't draw the guards' attention. I don't know if this contributed to the next events. Perhaps dropping the stolen flagged item not the picking it up started it? Or it may have been unrelated entirely. Maven was nearby and saying "what do you want?" instead of her usual "I presume you're bothering me for a good reason." I was really close to her to trade with Grelka.

It was about 5:30 p.m. and everyone inexplicably started leaving their stalls. Brand-Shei and Madesi... Madesi was practically looking right at me when I picked up the flagged item but if he detected me he didn't make mention of it in dialogue and I didn't have any bounty added to me. I didn't know what was going on. Marise Aravel walked past me. It wasn't closing time (8 p.m.). Madesi didn't have his sale option available anymore and neither did Marise who I also tried engaging in dialogue. I wandered away to find Balimund but he was inside his shop.

I wandered back and overheard a piece of conversation with Brand-Shei. I don't know what Marise said but Brand-Shei replied menacingly "That can be arranged..." and started attacking her (or she attacked him, not sure who was attacking and defending at that point because Haelga started attacking Marise as well). Haelga was standing next to me at Grelka's stall and so was close by when the fight started. I thought I should help Marise but then Haelga's alignment suggested that Marise started the fight.

Anyway, Brand-Shei survived with Haelga's help and they killed Marise. She was lootable without stealing. I still don't know what she said or why she was considered hostile. Certainly a frenzied NPC is attacked by all civilians including guards. If you steal, pickpocket, or otherwise aggro an NPC, civilians who you did quests for will often aid you even against the guards.

The lack of guards suggests no crime was committed (such as if I had been seen stealing the flagged item). I had completed Brand-Shei's quest and considered whether he was defending me. But Marise never attacked me even if she detected my picking up the item. Certainly the player never does any quests for Haelga. So I don't think it had anything to do with me personally.

And yet Brand-Shei was aided by Haelga but not Madesi or Grelka who were standing right there. Even more strange, everyone returned to their stalls and I even sold Marise's iron dagger to Brand-Shei! Very strange incident. I suspect that some kind of dialogue or scripted event with Marise was planned but didn't make the final cut.

Brand-Shei is supposed to return to his stall even if you do Bynyolf's quest to incriminate him, but he does not. (Perhaps this was to prevent the incident with Marise?) It's possible that Marise who seems a spy for Maven was intended to be at odds with Brand-Shei in some scripted event that didn't get fully implemented or fully removed. After all, we aren't ever told the full story of why Maven(?) wanted Brand-Shei imprisoned/punished in the first place. It could be that Brand-Shei is a lone shopkeeper at odds with Maven? and Marise could be involved?

Would have been very cool if there were more player options to side against Maven; but since the player sides with Maven to become part of the Thieves Guild, they probably decided allowing the player to align against Maven either conflicted too much with some quests or was pointless (possibly blocking the player from completing the Thieves Guild questline like siding against the Dark Brotherhood removes the option to participate in those quests). Or giving more complex player options in the questing just didn't get done. I would have liked to be able to take charge of the Thieves Guild and remove it from Maven's control, but the player doesn't have that option. Maybe defying Maven, siding with the town, and being able to take back the Thieves Guild was considered in development but simplified in the end?

I suspect that this isn't a random bug but like "Blood on the Ice" and other quests that can "trigger" when certain conditions are met, Marise has some "trigger" that instigates her conflict with Brand-Shei (or possibly other people like Mjoll and Aerin who were potentially a anti-Thieves Guild or anti-Maven faction.) 09:47, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Sell Any Item[edit]

For some reason I find myself able to sell any item to Marise, despite not having the perk which allows that, and I'm pretty sure I remember her only being a food merchant. All other merchants seem the same as usual, only she has changed. Any thoughts? 18:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Getting Killed[edit]

For the bug with Marise getting killed by other NPCs, I managed to do it twice in fairly quick succession. Both times, I dropped a few items in the market and picked them back up again, after which, all the nearby shopkeepers came and stared at me like this was The Birds or something. While it wasn't triggered right away, eventually one or more of them became hostile to Marise and attacked her. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:50, 20 March 2017 (UTC)