Oblivion talk:Sanguine/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Sanguine discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Does Stark Reality work for Removing Armor?

I was just wondering: Could Stark Reality be used to remove the armor of somebody you're fighting? — Unsigned comment by Dereklh24 (talkcontribs)

If you want to also lose all of your own armor, weapons, and gold and not be able to get them back until you finish Sanguine's quest, probably. --NepheleTalk 01:25, 15 April 2007 (EDT)
I think it only works on the dinner guests. When I cast the spell there were a couple of party crashers in the room, a guard and Hildara, and they didn't lose their clothes. And they were well within range.RumblePen 02:46, 4 July 2007 (EDT)RumblePen
I'm quite sure it's scripted to only work on the dinner guests, when you're in the dining room, most likely because it would be inherently broken if characters could run around removing everyone's clothing and armour. Casting it still counts as assault though. --Saruuk 03:04, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

General

Anybody succeeded doing the quest without getting the bounty on your head at all?

(actually, as soon as the bounty is paid or "taken care of" by a friendly guard, everyone goes calm and you may take part in the remainder of the... interesting party :)

Yes, here's a foolproof method:
  • locate/make an invisibility potion, any duration should be fine, just long enough for the damage HP to pass.
  • get in the farthest corner of the room, jumping on top of the cupboards helps.
  • cast the spell at the table, I use the plate of apples as my target
  • drink the potion before the spell hits the table, this means quickly getting into your inventory or assigning the invis. potion to a hotkey. The spells' effect will only take place when it hits, so you will still have your full inventory.
with any luck, nobody will call the guards, but they will get up and run around naked while the countess bolts for her private quarters. If you check your stats, you will have no bounty since no-one saw you when the spell hit.
Bonus: getting the countess to remain unclothed is relatively easy based on my experience.
  • you will want to unlock the private quarters beforehand by getting the key or picking the lock, it will also help to have a few invisibility or chameleon items nearby since you will be stark naked.
  • when the Countess bolts for her quarters, follow her in and hide to avoid detection, you don't need to go very far, just wait by the entrance.
  • after a little bit, she will begin to leave unclothed, follow her back out. That is all you should need to do.--Rellik 19:24, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Actually, days later when I was with a business to Leyawinn, the countess was apparently still under the influence of the spell, out in the town...

Does anyone know how to advance the quest to completed? My game is stuck with the bug of the countess never coming back. I kept advancing 24 hours for several days in a row (for about a month in game time) and trying to find her there between 6 to 8 (and other parts of the day/night) but she never shows up. The only codes I entered in console were caqs (complete all quest stages) and completeallqueststages, which essentially have the exact same effect (as expected) of completing all quest stages. I just want to complete this particular quest though. Any thoughts? --Ubiq 16:32, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

I ran into this same situation. I think that it has to do with entering the castle during the time while the party would be going on, but after the countess left (probably late at night). I was able to get around it by loading an earlier save, waiting to enter the castle, and then proceeding with asking the guard and waiting until after 6pm. Can anyone confirm? If not, I should be able to double check in the next day or so. -- Jketola 11:59, 8 June 2006 (EDT)

Attribution

The credits given in the Tips section seems anti-Wiki. Does anyone know why this page is different? Is this on purpose? Otherwise, we could distill the suggestions into a few basic hints (fess-up, personality yield, run, hide, duck and cover) and remove the credits. -- Jketola 11:59, 8 June 2006 (EDT)

I agree, and this page gets worse and worse, with credits and repeated and redundant tips increasing. It also sets a bad example for new editors coming here. An admin okay to do a serious clean-up of this article would be good. --Actreal 01:37, 28 June 2006 (EDT)
I'm definitely not an admin, but I agree this article is getting pretty ugly. I'd give a thumbs-up to anyone's efforts to clean it up! IMHO, 99% of the section on making the countess get dressed forever could be deleted: I think it sets a poor (and immature) example for the standards of this site. --Nephele 02:21, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

The Disclaimer

I added a small note under the description headline. I put this because of some of the problems I've personally had. Head over to the Discussion Link to see what it's about. If anybody wants to re-word it then be my guest, but it would be a good idea to have it and leave it at the top of the page. - Magra7hea

Deleted Text

Ughh... IE just lost my first version of this note, so I'm trying to reconstruct it. In short, I decided to go ahead and take on the overhaul of this page. The main sections that I basicaly just deleted have been pasted here (assuming in my reconstruct I found them all...).

I took out alot of the hints about how to get away without being detected. Although I believe each of them can possibly work, in my experience they do not work 100% of the time (some of them even admit as much). I don't think readers of this page want to be presented with twenty different options for how to complete the quest, each of which may or may not work. If anyone wants to test these hints and show that one or more of them are 100% reliable, be my guest, and then put the hint back (but no signatures!!)

I also deleted the entire section on making the countess get undressed forever (put one short blurb at the end of Finding the Countes). As I previously stated, I don't think that section really belongs on this site. I may be imposing my adult prudery on all you kids, but if you really find seeing an animated woman in her undies so exciting there's a much easier way to do it: just play a female character, and strip her down whenever you want!

--Nephele 15:20, 7 July 2006 (EDT)

Deleted hints

  • Thanks to Kyle Welsh (i.like.me@hotmail.co.uk) for the following:
    • It is possible to avoid detection by the guards if you make your way into the dinner hall and then proceed to the far back corner where the door leading to the "Servants Quarters" is.
    • From the back corner of the alcove which contains the door (therefore placing you as far away as possible from everyone else in the room) crouch down and aim over the guests' heads at the corner of the room from which you entered. When you cast Stark Reality the pandemonium will ensue and you merely have to turn around and enter the Servants Quarters. As soon as you do, about face and re-enter the hall. Proceed to casually walk past everyone as if nothing happened, exit the castle and fast-travel to Sanguine. Ta-da.
  • Thanks to Sindre AG (Haugane53.net) for the following: I couldn't get the other hint to work so here's another approach to this problem:
    • Cast the spell, resist arrest, then run to the Fighter's Guild. ::Note this only works if you're a member:: then head up on stair and jump onto the great lamp hanging form the roof. The Guild member's will then kill the guards for you. When they are all killed, go outside and fasttravel to the shrine. If you want you could get your bounty paid off in waterfront, if your a member of the Thieves' Guild, that is.
  • Comment by marwin: The best way to do this quest is by crouching behind the table/chairs outside the dinner hall (in the county hall), and then casting the spell into the dinner hall through the door. Somehow no one are able to detect you when you cast the spell from this position (might be due to the distance), and thus you are able to avoid getting a bounty as well. You still lose your items though, so you should probably fast-travel to the shrine right away to get them back and complete the quest.
  • Comment by Klosarvladimir: I found another way without hiding and sneaking. Go in the castle main hall (the long one) and to the main door as you would go outside. Well, don't go outside, but go near the door with your back so you are looking in the way the throne is. Then just cast a spell in the direction of the throne. It looks quite a long way for spell to travel, but it works. Two guards that stand near you won't react but you will also be naked and without your stuff. Of course, the countess must be in the dining hall and try to open the door of the dining hall first.
  • Comment by EQdoktor: Chameleon, invisibility and sneak is your friend. Make sure you are 100% chameleon (exceeding 100, the more the better). Go into sneak mode in the party, cast the Stark Reality spell on the Countess. Pandemonium ensues, your gear is gone and your dispelled BUT you should still be in sneak mode. Sneak out to Victory! Fast travel back to Sanguine for your gear. In theory, being in Chameleon/Sneak mode when you cast the spell should protect you ("who cast that spell?") from the guards but I sneaked out just to be safe.
  • Comment by Dodgy Bob: Since - for me - nothing I tried would work, even including the above ways, for completing this quest ... and since I wanted my "good" character to stay as "good" as possible without the need for others doing the killing for me or for me having to go off to any of the churches for "cleansing" later on, this is what worked for me. This way uses ideas from Klosarvladimir's and marwin's, so thanks Klosarvladimir and marwin for the kickstart to "my" way!
    • Once you have the quest activated and you've spoken to the guard and gotten in to the dinner party and everyone needed is present AND the door is still OPEN, simply go back out and position yourself IN the entrance to the Throne Room, facing towards the Dinner Party Room. You then need to move OUT of the entrance way ONLY JUST ENOUGH so that you can ONLY JUST get the spell cast THROUGH the open door, INTO the Dinner Party Room. You need to aim just above the head of the dinner party guest who, from looking through the Dinner Party Room door, should be seated on the far side of the table 2 seats up from the opposite end of the table to the Countess. AS SOON AS you have cast the spell (into the Dinner Party Room of course), TURN and RUN (you may not need to run) towards the exit of the castle. Within a few steps, you should get the QUEST COMPLETED dialog box.
    • Due to the aiming and 'Turn and Run' nature of this way, you might need to try it a couple of times before it works. Doing it this way though, you still get affected by the spell, but because you're out of the Throne Room where the posted guard by the Dinner Party Room door is, he cannot see you and so none of the guards will come after you. Also, the fact that Hlidara Mothril (who is immune to the spell) is still in the room when the spell is activated, doesn't effect the quest at all. And finally, I was using the original version of the game (installed from CD and not updated) and had no side effects of completing this quest while having the 'Ring of ViperEye' in my inventory.
  • Tip from 6pack1: Also, you could (If you have finished the Thieves' Guild quests), Equip Nocturnal's Cowl while hiding in any part of the room so noone sees you, and make sure you have a quest item type weapon, so you can fight your way out. If you cast the spell, you may still get hit but don't worry. Even though you lose the Cowl until you get it from the chest, you can still kill people without being bountied on your regular guy. It will all contribute to the Cowl's bounty. So, you fight your way out and kill any guard that comes your way and you are safe to fast-travel back to Sanguine. USE FAST TRAVEL. It is way easier than trying to run while with the bounty on your head. Once you make it back, talk to Sanguine, the bounty will be gone and you can grab your stuff. THIS WAS TESTED ON PATCHED 360 VERSION
  • Tip from celeste: This works if you have easy access to invisibility-type spells or potions. By the time I tried this quest, I was 16th level and one quest away each from being head of the Thieves and Mages Guilds. Here are the steps I used:
    • 1. Wait until there are no guards in the dining room. Close the door leading out into the main hall.
    • 2. Stand next to the door with your back to the wall so that when the guard opens it the door will between you and him.
    • 3. Cast Stark Reality toward the table.
    • 4. When the door opens and the guard challenges you, you can't see him. Select to resist arrest.
    • 5. Immediately cast Invisibility or swallow a potion.
    • At this point, you can leave the building (while still invisible) and fast travel to see a Thieves' Guild doyen who can pay off your bounty. I did something kind of weird, however, and I still don't know if Alessia ever gets her clothes back. If you stay invisible and follow her to her room (you'll have to keep recasting or gulping more potions whenever you open doors, of course), she never does get dressed again. Even weirder, she and her bodyguard take off for Chorrol ON FOOT, with her still in underwear, and this wasn't even during the time she usually goes to visit her mother. (It was like the 23rd of the month or something.)


Make Countess get undressed forever!!!

1. Cast "stark reality " spell at the corner(behind and right-hand side of the countess, near standing secretary of countess). The best time is between 9pm and 10pm (around 9:50 pm). You need to select time just before the count come down to dinner hall here with his guard.

2. After casting spell, countess secretary will attack you, do not resist, then the guard will kill her. Get the castle keys from her body. (Sometimes she run-away and die somewhere-else, So it is better to pickpocket keys before spell casting and drop the keys near you and take the keys after spell casting.)

3. After some ado, countess will go to her room to get re-dressed(I guess). Then follow her with castle keys. At the stair near second floor, you need to save game. Follow and get into the door with castle keys. You better use sneak mode not to be detected by her. If there is no guard, you are very lucky - The rest is very easy!!! (For me, around 8:50pm there was no guard. But when I do retry this between 8pm to 10pm, there is always one guard.) So, I guess most of you will encounter a guard. If you meet a guard try another time. After some try, if you can not make the case without guard, you need to hard work as follows. Load the game saved before at the stairs. And talk to countess again and again until you see the count and guard are out of the door to go to dining room.

4. Now free to follow her to private area. The next door can not be opend with castle key. So, with sneak mode, follow and get into the room before the door closed. Here you need to save the game again.

5. Follow her to her bedroom. At the drawer she will turn back.(Here, she must get dressed with new clothes, but she forget to do this - why? - happy bug!)

6. You will be detected by her. So reload the previously saved game. Here you can find area you can hide, on your right side. Go there and wait until she comes back - wow! - she is still undressed.

7. Follow her to dinning room. Done!. From now on, she will be undressed forever. Forget forever to dress-up.

8. Give her some bribe, then she will always smile at you.

9. Next mornig or later, you can see her being undressed at castle hall(working) or dining room(eating) and ousside of castle(strolling with guard under rain).

10. In the previous quest, you may breaked into countess bedroom(through castle basement). So, around 1 am to 3 am, intrude there again - you can she is sleeping with count. (Sometimes, she does not sleep with count. then come here again on next day.)

  • Mine is PC version, and have not installed any update patch - still 1.0.xx version.
  • After many try, there was a case after spell casting, she did not go to her bedroom and just sit on the chair at the dining room, then talk and eat as if there was nothing.

Then afterwards, she will be undreesed forever just like now - very lucky case. (time was between 10pm to 10:30pm)


PS: I have found another more easy way.

1. Do the "Ahdarji's Heirloom" quest before this quest. Then you should know the way to countess bedroom through castle basement.

2. After casting spell, when countess go to her bedroom, then hurry-up to go to her bedroom through secret passage through basement.

3. There, you can see count and soon countess will arrive.

4. Count go to dinner room first, and next countess will go there but still undressed!- Ha! (Here she suddlenly turn back and come to the basement-why?, so I have to hide behind door.)

5. Come back to dinner room and enjoy the patry!

  • VERY EASY!!!!!
Well,I don't comprehend exactly how to achieve this effect. Can anyone explain this better in a video or some other form to make it more claer where to go and how to do it during the right time? It is a great explanation, and I'm sure I can get it in a few attempts, but it remains somewhat confusing, as I think I understand how to do it, but I am not so familiar with the castle and all its residents. Arka 23:10, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Avoiding Detection Seems to Be Easy

This page says that avoiding detection is very difficult. So I was surprised when I found avoiding detection to be easy. The key is to make sure no guard is within range of the spell. The guards are good at detecting an invisible player but the guests aren't. I simply stood outside the dining room, at the courtyard. Then I waited until there was no guard in the dining room. At that point, I went into sneak mode and cast whatever chameleon spells I had. Then I cast the Stark Reality spell into the room through the open door. I immediately drank an invisibility potion before the spell reached the dining room. When the spell hit the room, I simply stood there in sneak mode and invisible. No guard tried to look for me since none of them were affected by the spell. And the guests that were looking for me couldn't find me even when they were standing right in front of me. So I concluded that the key is to make sure the guards aren't affected by the Stark Reality spell. Can anyone else verify my conclusion? -- Jargon 03:43, 27 February 2007 (EST)

I suppose it depends upon what you consider to be "easy". What you did is definitely more difficult than the most obvious solution of running into the room and casting the spell. You had to find the right spot to cast the spell from, wait for the right timing with the guards, and then be fast with drinking the potion in time. For people who are playing a brute-force-type fighter, none of that would be easy. Or for people who don't carry around a supply of invisibility potions, it wouldn't even be possible. So although you found it easy enough to do, I'd guess even your tip would be pretty challenging for other players. IMHO. --Nephele 00:53, 28 February 2007 (EST)
I can verify that Jargon's conclusion is certainly NOT correct, unless the spell goes through walls (which we know it doesn't, since it will do nothing if fired at the back of someone's chair). Even with no guards in the room and the door closed, about a second after the spell hits they flood into the room and make a beeline straight for you, popping up the Jail/Resist dialog even if you are invisible. When I originally played Oblivion (ie unpatched) I THINK you could cast an invisibility spell (if you were quick enough) and the guards would burst in and then run around failing to find you, quickly reverting to the usual "must have been the wind" etc comments when they failed, and that certainly isn't true now. More importantly though, his TACTIC does seem to be reliable: an invisibility POTION, provided it's drunk between casting the spell and the spell actually impacting (which isn't really possible if you try to CAST invis, though block-casting might just work) seems to do the trick for the reason explained elsewhere, i.e. that it avoids the Bounty aspect completely. (And you don't have to trek to the far side of town to do it: the alcove to the servants' quarters works fine, just aim at the ?female altmer? on the far side of the table). - Aliana 71.9.18.26 19:38, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Countess is lying dead on the throne

When I try this quest, I find the countess lying dead on the throne. What's up with that?

It can happen if she has been killed by some random circumstance, I am not sure if casting Stark Reality on her corpse counts towards the quest or not. Jadrax 18:06, 5 March 2007 (EST)

Alteration Training

The Stark Reality spell can be really great for building up skill in alteration. Find a mudcrab or something and just keep casting at it. It's an incredibly cheap to cast, but goes away after completing the quest.

Frenzy

I just found a way to do this without increasing bounty, I don't know if it will work again, or if anyone else with have success with it, but I thought I'd mention it for completeness. I've got Shivering Isles and I have Blessing of Mania (not exactly sure how/when I picked it up, but I have it.) I closed the door after the last guard left, and then I hid in the alcove, cast blessing of mania, and when they all started to kill each other (a better chaos inducing spell, I feel) I cast the cloths removing spell, and nobody batted an eye lash. I got the quest update and I took off without any problem with the guard. Btw, for some reason the countess herself didn't lose her clothing when I cast the spell, perhaps because she's leveled and the spell only effects to a certain level?

Great Gate

If you complete this before the main quest's Defense of Bruma, the Leyawin guards, still annoyed at the prank you played upon them, instead of helping you enter the Great Gate, will attack you.

Can anyone confirm this note added to the main article? There are in my opinion at least three problems with this note:

  • It assumes that you chose to run from the guards (and possibly even fight them) instead of one of the other options for solving this quest. If you get through the quest any other way, there is no reason for the guards to dislike you.
  • There is nothing specific in this quest that changes the Leyawiin guards' disposition towards you. So if they want to attack you, it's because you did something (like attack them) that you could do to guards in any city in the game, and presumably have the same effect. In other words, I don't see how the problem is something specific to this quest.
  • The guards in the Defense of Bruma are completely unrelated to the guards you encounter during Sanguine's quest: both sets of Leyawiin guards are special NPCs that only exist for their quest. So there's no way that you have ever previously encountered the Defense of Bruma guards.

--NepheleTalk 13:36, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Countess is dead before the quest is started

Trying to do "The Forlorn Watchman" when I stumbled upon the dead countess and her horse.

Countess is dead and I have no idea what killed her

I just started doing the shrine quests in my game (360 version) and every time I try to enter the castle during this quest the loading screen freexes. I went back to an earlier save and activated the quest, only to find the countess dead on the throne. Am I screwed? I've spent so much time on this game thinking about starting over sickens me.

That's odd. Is your game unpatched? She's always been flagged unkillable in my game.RumblePen 02:43, 4 July 2007 (EDT)RumblePen
She loses her essential tag after you complete the Thieves Guild quest Ahdarji's Heirloom. Occasionally she gets killed on her way to Chorrol every month, but I've never heard of anything like this. Maybe you got into a fight earlier and she tried to help you? And yes, you are screwed in this respect. This is why you should generally keep multiple, incremental saves. --Saruuk 03:00, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

Two things you should try. First, drag the countesses body into the dining and try casting the spell. If that doesn't work, obtain the staff of worms or the reanimate spell you can get from Shivering Isles and see if you can complete the quest that way.--RumblePen 05:07, 5 July 2007 (EDT)RumblePen

Glitch?

When I am trying to go into Leyawiin Castle the game freezes up on me....any ideas to get me in there? Note this is an XBox 360 version. — Unsigned comment by Zarkov (talkcontribs)

Try clearing your cache. --NepheleTalk 12:48, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

This is some sort of the same problem; After i have casted the stark reality and make a run for it, the game freezes, maybe three seconds after the spell. What should i do? This is for the xbox 360.--Djjonnern 06:45, 16 September 2007 (EDT)Djjonnern

Fame/Infamy and KOTN

This note was recently added to the page:

  • If you have completed the Knights of the Nine quest. Bear the following in mind before casting the spell (The spell reduces your Infamy): You can only equip the Relics if your Infamy is 1 or less. If your Infamy ever reaches 2 or more, you must repeat the Pilgrimage to a Wayshrine of every deity. This resets your Infamy to 0, allowing you to use the Relics again.

Can anybody confirm whether this quest increases your infamy, which is the only thing that could affect KOTN. --Gaebrial 08:21, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't. It ups your fame.--Willyhead 08:25, 20 August 2007 (EDT)
As stated in the article, casting the spell is considered an assault and gives you a bounty, but it does not give you any infamy. So the note seems pretty irrelevant to me, too. --NepheleTalk 12:02, 20 August 2007 (EDT)
When i casted the spell, i got a bounty of 200 gold and an infamy point, plus that annoying message: The gods have taken note of your crime ...or something like that. I tought that you only had infamy points with bounty's of 500 gold or greater? I didn't have any bounty on me before casting the spell. Is this a glitch on the xbox or something like that?

Reloading didn't solve the problem`10:19, 14 December 2007 (EST)lordDagon

That seems a lot of bounty... plus you really shouldn't be getting the infamy point. Is it possible somebody died when you case the spell? That's about the only thing I can think of that might cause this. --RpehTCE 10:36, 14 December 2007 (EST)
Nevermind, i just saved, shut down the xbox, reloaded the next day, and the problem was solved. And no, nobody was killed during the quest.

Frenzy

Comment moved from main article: I'm sure if this is valid or not, since the whole thing seems pretty unclear about whether or not it would work. Can anybody confirm it? --Eshe 16:48, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

If you want to avoid the record of an assault, it may sometimes be possible to use a frenzy spell to cause one of the party guests to attack you and then retaliate with "Stark Reality." If a guest attacked you first, there is a chance that this will not count as a crime.— Unsigned comment by 69.154.35.131 (talk)

Statuette of a Dog

It seems that if you have the Statuette of a Dog with you, the game freezes when you cast stark reality just the same as the Clavicus Vile quest. 65.0.246.156 10:06, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Great discovery, add this to the glitches page and the mission page!- Western3589 10:09, 4 November 2007 (EST)
I had the dog in my inv from the Umbra q, but it didn't froze (I play on a X-Box360)... strange — Unsigned comment by 81.183.116.33 (talk)
Perhaps because you had installed the patch? I'd guess that problems with the game freezing when the statuette is removed (whatever the circumstances) only occur if you're playing an unpatched version of the game. That really needs to be tested before adding any information to the article. --NepheleTalk 02:33, 8 January 2008 (EST)
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