Oblivion talk:Ingredients/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Ingredients discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.


I thought as I had the info available I'd add it. This is my first edit so I hope that it's ok.

Can someone check Summer Bolete Cap. My properties were totally different from what was already there.

Ingredient Sources

I was thinking about adding a Sources column that would list some common sources of each ingrediants. This would include general areas where it might be found, farms/gardens, and stores that have a decent supply. Alternatively, another page could be created to list this information but I think it makes sense to add it here assuming it doesn't make the table too big or unwieldy.

The problem is the table's already pretty much at max width at 1024x768. What about this?
Ingredient Name Primary Effect Secondary Effect Tertiary Effect Quaternary Effect Worth Weight
Alkanet Flower Restore Intelligence Resist Poison Light Damage Fatigue 1 0.1
Alkanet Flowers are bright XYZ and grow in the XYZ region. They can also be purchased from XYZ's shop in the XYZ area of XYZ.
Aloe Vera Leaves Restore Fatigue Restore Health Damage Magicka Invisibility 1 0.1
While this breaks up the pure column flow, it allows for detailed information to be found on the very same list, rather than on some redundant subpage. Garrett 18:16, 11 April 2006 (EDT)
        • Comment

Didn't see how to enter my own coment, so I am sorry if I am doing it wrong.

THe Sources data would be outstanding to have. I am forever wandering around looking for Restore Magica potion ingredients!

One way to alleviate the table looking "stuttered" with the alternating lines it to alternate shading for the lines like you do for the header. So either make every "Source" like a slightly different background shade, or shade each ingredients "info" line with the same background as the "Sources" line, and alternate the shading so each ingredients data stands out alone. Usually you do this with just two shades (1 white, and 1 grey), however you can use whatever colors you like. Just keep in mind the ease of reading.

Thanks.... Jozbun

Ahh, I forget I'm using a wide screen (1600x1050) now so see more than someone on a regular monitor.
Ingredient Name Primary Effect Secondary Effect Tertiary Effect Quaternary Effect Worth Weight
Alkanet Flower Restore Intelligence Resist Poison Light Damage Fatigue 1 0.1
Alkanet Flowers are bright XYZ and grow in the XYZ region. They can also be purchased from XYZ's shop in the XYZ area of XYZ.
Aloe Vera Leaves Restore Fatigue Restore Health Damage Magicka Invisibility 1 0.1
More locations....
Something Else Restore Magicka Damage Intelligence Damage Fatigue Chameleon 3 0.2
....
Makes the table slightly more complex to edit (not too bad) and the only other alternative I can see is to have a seperate Ingrediants Source page.
UPDATE: Some has started a Oblivion:Ingredient_Locations already.
-- DaveH 12:51, 15 April 2006 (EDT)
Yeah, the merged label definitely looks better, and the alternating colours solves the other issue. Garrett 06:12, 16 April 2006 (EDT)
Looks good, bit of a pain to edit, though. (Just added Painted Troll Fat location just to test the system.) It'd definitely be a major job adding all of them in. Maybe it'd be best just to put in the hard-to-find ones, and forget the rest? I mean, if you can't find Flax Seeds or Morning Glory Root Pulp on your own, you're just not trying hard enough. -- TheRealLurlock 18:35, 19 May 2006 (EDT)
Well, I added a bunch more anyhow. Editting is not too bad, I guess. Problem arose, though. Not sure if it's just me or what, but the grid lines on the table have disappeared on about half the list. I wonder if it's some sort of render-error in Firefox? I'm also getting the warning that this page is a bit too large when I edit now. Not sure what can be done about that, though, as there's no really good way to split this into multiple pages without just making it annoying. (Who wants to have to go back and forth between this and another page to know where to find ingredients?) -- TheRealLurlock 14:41, 22 May 2006 (EDT)

Ingredient variants

Added the comment about ingredients that appear "in two variants" - so far found bonemeal and vampire dust to be the case, add others if you find them please. These despite appearing to be identical in all respects, stack on two different stacks in the inventory and alchemy list, allowing you to add ingredient from the first stack as component 1, ingredient from the second stack as component 2 and get a potion with all available effects of the component at once (mix vampire dust with vampire dust). NOT master alchemist perk! Likely a bug :) --Vook 07:24, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

That's a good addition. It's not really a bug though, it's just they didn't add support for items with different IDs being connected. It was that way in Morrowind too. GarrettTalk 18:32, 21 April 2006 (EDT)
Then it IS a bug, just a very persistent one, and not likely to go away anytime soon because of too many features depending on it :) --Vook 13:46, 15 May 2006 (EDT)
In Oblivion on the 360, the two vampire dusts have different weights. The regular one weighs .2, but the ones from bloodcrust cavern weigh .1. Just something I noticed... bjcffnet 13:07, 15 May 2006 (EDT)

Details on the Vampire Dust duplication are now provided at Oblivion:Vampire Dust.--Nephele 14:34, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

Pictures?

Anyone else think it might be good to somehow put small pictures of each of the plants on here somehow? I'd be willing to take some screenshots if there's a good way to put them up there. -- TheRealLurlock 16:17, 21 May 2006 (EDT)

Quest-specific variants

I just removed Ashes of Hindoril and Refined Frost Salts. They're just quest-specific duplicates of Vampire Dust and regular Frost Salts anyhow. If we were going to include every other quest specific ingredient, that would be one thing, but I think it should be either all or none. Maybe we should make a seperate page/section or some other kind of note for those? Others on it might be Jumbo Potato, Pinarus' Prize Minotaur Horn, Poisonned Apple, Rat Poison, and Rumare Slaughterfish Scales. Then there's things like Carrot of Seeing and Imp Fluid, which I'm pretty sure don't ever appear in-game, but still exist in the editor for some reason. (Only found in test-cells.) Anyhow, I think the list is pretty complete as is. I'll just finish filling in locations, and we can wrap this up. -- TheRealLurlock 14:33, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

Since I can't just leave well enough alone, I'm adding a quest-specific list to the bottom. Will probably move some of the ingredients from the main list down to there. Unicorn Horn, for example. Not sure what to do about items that are only found on a specific quest, but which are not ever needed for any reason, e.g. Painted Troll Fat, or ingredients you can only get as a quest reward for doing a certain quest, but which are, again, not required for anything, e.g. S'jirra's Famous Potato Bread. It might be that any item that is at all specifically quest-related in any way might get moved down there, just to distinguish them. (By the way, I'm aware that it's out of order, and needs links and such added. Let me just get everything in first, then I'll worry about that.) -- TheRealLurlock 20:10, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

Pitcher Plant

Has anyone ever successfully harvested from a Pitcher Plant? It's found in swamp areas, shaped like an inverted cone and very similar to the real-word Pitcher Plant. I have never successfully harvested an ingredient from this plant and am wondering if it is even possible and what ingredient it carries. Is it just a bug (not literally, like harvesting dead flies from it, but broken code,) or is it just meant to hang around and not be of any use? I see no discussion of it anywhere else in the wiki. --stotch 23:38, 29 May 2006 (EDT)

I've never seen a Pitcher Plant, but I just checked the Construction Set and it is the only named plant without an ingredient! There is no matching ingredient listed, so the devs obviously forgot or decided not to put one in. So you can give up harvesting it. --Actreal 04:27, 30 May 2006 (EDT)
What a bust. Maybe it's planned for a future plug-in where you collect flies for an Argonian or something. ;-) Thank you for looking it up, though. --stotch 04:39, 30 May 2006 (EDT)
They're somewhat common in the Leyawiin area and also in the swamps east of the Niben. They do indeed seem to be purely decorative, unfortunately. I think it'd be cool to actually see them in action. Actually, even cooler would be Venus Fly-Traps. Or, err... Kynaereth Fly-Traps, maybe, to keep it lore-friendly. (I did get a chuckle out of St. Jahn's Wort, which is, by the way listed as St. John's Wort in the Construction Set.) Alas, we may just leave this up to the modders if they're feeling bored some day... -- TheRealLurlock 20:15, 30 May 2006 (EDT)
I am going to drop this in the Glitches page, just so it gets some attention from Bethsoft and/or modders. --stotch 03:33, 14 June 2006 (EDT)
Actually, someone did do a mod for the Pitcher Plant to give it some reagents based on the real-world Pitcher Plant. You can find it at TESNexus.

Refined Frost Salts

Uh oh, Lurlock, it looks like we're doing it again: undoing each other's edits over and over.... This time, we seem to disagree on how Refined Frost Salts differ from Frost Salts. You say they're more powerful; I say they're not more powerful, and the only difference is the order of the effects.

  • First question: what are the effects of Refined Frost Salts? In my game, they're listed in order as: 'Frost Damage', 'Frost Shield, 'Resist Fire', 'Silence'. That's not what's listed on the Ingredients page. In either case, the effects are the same four as are listed for plain Frost Salts, but just in a different order.
  • Second question: how are 'Refined Frost Salts' more powerful? If I make a potion using the refined ones, it has the exact same strength (magnitude, duration) as if I use the plain ones. Despite being alot more rare, the refined salts are actually cheaper than the plain ones. So what makes the refined ones more powerful?--Nephele 02:35, 25 June 2006 (EDT)
I was just going by what I see in the Construction Set. If you look at regular Frost Salts, it gives the four ingredients with their magnitudes as: Frost Damage 15, Frost Shield 60, Resist Fire 30, and Silence 0. Refined Frost Salts is listed as Frost Damage 25, Frost Shield 80, Resist Fire 45, and Silence 0. Though come to think of it, I just realized those are in alphabetical order (which in the case of regular Frost Salts is the same thing, but not the Refined ones.) Okay, looking at the chart, I see that Frost Salts is Frost Damage, Resist Fire, Silence, Frost Shield, and Refined Frost Salts is Frost Damage, Frost Shield, Resist Fire, Silence. So, I guess we're both right on this one. Different order AND more potent. You're also right about the price listed, regular ones are 60 and Refined ones are 40, so there's a wee discrepency on Bethsoft's part, but no big deal there. I'll change the entry to reflect this. --TheRealLurlock 10:37, 25 June 2006 (EDT)
Interesting. I didn't know that the construction set specified magnitudes for each of the effects. Any idea what those magnitudes actually mean? They don't affect potion strength. I even just checked if you eat the ingredients: both salts caused 2 pts damage for 9 secs.--Nephele 13:07, 25 June 2006 (EDT)
Hmm, not sure, but there are only two ingredients anywhere that use values other than 15, 30, 45, and 60 for these magnitudes (not counting effects like Silence, Cure Poison, Invisibility, etc. which don't have magnitude). Refined Frost Salt, and Jumbo Potatos. Since I don't think you can eat or make potions from the Jumbo Potatos, since they're quest-items, Refined Frost Salts seem to be the only one you can test these with. It might be that the difference is so miniscule it won't show unless you have very high Alchemy skill and good equipment? Or it might simply be nothing, but it seems strange to me that those numbers would be there and yet have no effect... --TheRealLurlock 14:09, 25 June 2006 (EDT)
Still no luck. I tested each of the four effects for a character with 100 alchemy, expert and master equipment, and no difference between Frost Salt and Refined Frost Salt. The Resist Fire potion, for example, was 42% for 149 secs in both cases. That means that if there is a difference it's less than 1%. Just for kicks, I did it at 82 alchemy as well (in case 100 was maxing out values): Resist Fire values were 40%, 141 secs in both cases. And I haven't been able to use Jumbo Potatoes as an ingredient, either (although I haven't finished the quest yet; I know refined frost salts you can only use after you finish the quest), so no tests possible there. I agree it's odd that Bethesda would have those numbers and not use them, but I suspect they implemented a few last-minute tweaks to alchemy (i.e., maximum 4 potions at any alchemy level; the screwy way that potion weights get determined; Fortify Alchemy has no effect). I'd be happy to test any other ideas on where those magnitudes might have an effect, but for now they look to me like meaningless values.--Nephele 14:54, 25 June 2006 (EDT)

H% and Creature Ingredients

Right now, we have "N/A" displayed for the harvest percentage on all creature-originated ingredients. It seems to me that you could get a reliable "harvest percentage" simply by looking at the creature's Leveled Items? Of course, ingredients carried in different quantities by multiple different creatures would be a minor complication. Just seesm like there should be a way to have something more useful than just "N/A" displayed there... --TheRealLurlock Talk 10:15, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

The creatures always have 100% chance of carrying the ingredient, and it's always a single copy of the ingredient (at least for any creature that would be identified as a source of the ingredient; there are other strange cases like vampire hunters who can slowly collect lots of vampire dust, but you wouldn't list a vampire hunter as a source of dust). But it doesn't seem to me like that's the same as a "harvest percentage". You're not "harvesting" the ingredient from a corpse and it's not controlled by an internal statistic related to ingredient production. Also, since it is always guaranteed it doesn't really seem necessary to fill in the column with an unrelated number. Even if you did, you'd still be left with all the ingredients like oranges, bread loaves, ironwood nuts, etc. that don't have any defined sources. It just seems to me like filling in a number in that column would add confusion and not really provide readers with information, IMHO. --Nephele 12:26, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
Aren't some of the creature ingredients selected from leveled lists such that only some of them will give ingredients? Like you don't get Rat Meat from every Rat you kill, only a percentage of them? Or do I just have too much Morrowind on my brain right now? (Morrowind definitely uses leveled lists, with a chance of none, for creature ingredients.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 15:00, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
I think you've got too much Morrowind on your brain ;) For Oblivion, the creature ingredients are listed directly in the creature inventories; they're not added through a leveled list item. I just double-checked with the script I'm putting together to plot out creature ingredients, and there are no creatures carrying ingredients that come from leveled lists. Although I did find a creature that has more than one ingredient: the Giant Slaughterfish in Bravil Wizard's Grotto has three Scales instead of the usual one (and 12 Crab Meat, too)... there always has to be one exception, it seems ;) --Nephele 15:33, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
Duh. That fish is giant for starters(3scales), and what do you think it eats(12crab meat)?(also why it always has bones in its stomach).

Rat Poison

What exactly happens when you eat it? Is it a poisoned apple scripted effect, or something different? — Unsigned comment by Merco (talkcontribs)

As it says in the article, "Eating it has no effect". --NepheleTalk 12:36, 15 August 2007 (EDT)
Its effects are scripted for sheogoraths quest. When the rats appear, the cat person(mind lapse, sorry)drops two of them and the rats start dying off with magic effects around them.(someone should test if this effect pertains only to the quest or if you can kill all rats by dropping this stuff near them). It's other use is poisoning the sheep by putting it in their food supply(same quest). Same magic effects for the rats happens here, too.

Max Amount Of Ingredients?

What is the max amount of one type of ingredients you can have?

You can technically hold unending amounts of one ingrediant. Although in effect this doesn't work because you will run out of inventory space. For example it would be easier to get lots of bloodgrass, than lots of pumpkins. - Game Lord
Ok thanks but how meny of one ingredient could you have e.g. 10k garlics.--Marleysexton 07:08, 23 February 2008 (EST)
Depends on the weight of the ingrediant, and your strength/inventory space. Say you have 500 space, that means you can carry 500/5 = 100 pumpkins. Garlic weighs 0, so you supposedly can carry infinite amounts of them without a problem. So yes, you could carry 10k garlic. - Game LordTalk|Contribs
Ok thanks--Marleysexton 07:23, 23 February 2008 (EST)
Without bothering to actually check it, I'm guessing that inventory quantities probably use a short integer for counting, which would put the limit for a specific stack at 32,767 (signed) or 65,535 (unsigned). I could be totally wrong, but considering the quantities you'd normally get, it makes sense that this would be the limit.

Locating Specific Cells

Ive been using the maps to find locations for specific ingredients, but can someone direct me where to go to learn how to access the cells descriptions that are given, such as exterior cell (-47, 7). Can I tell what cell location i'm in using the console, or do i need to learn about tes3mod or what? Thank You Rhapsody Moon 15:16, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

To find out your character's location you can use the command tdt followd by sdt 0. That adds constantly-visible debugging text to the screen, including your character's cell. You can also use coe to move your character to a specific cell. --NepheleTalk 00:15, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Human Heart

Is the * after Human Heart supposed to lead to a footnote? There is no footnote below the "Rare Ingredients" section and the footnote below the "Standard Ingredients" section does not begin with a *. Just curious. — Unsigned comment by 76.70.110.241 (talk) on 17 August 2009

Thanks for pointing it out, a footnote was indeed missing. My guess was it was supposed to be about the two types of Human Heart. --Timenn-<talk> 12:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Sweet Merciful Melons!

How could you forget about the glorious melon!? 92.4.121.29 17:39, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you talking about the watermelon? --GKTalk2me 19:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Notes about Rare Ingredients

I replaced the Rare Ingredients entries with {{Ingredient Entry}}s to get rid of {{Oblivion Ingredients Link}} so it can be deleted. A couple of notes:

  1. There are alot of parameters for some ingredients right now. Some could be saved by creating pages for them instead of redirects.
  2. Some ingredients used {{Linkable Entry}}, I redid them manually with <span id="ingredient"></span>. Self-closing span tags may cause errors in older browsers so I closed them old style. Creating pages for them could work better, see previous point.
  3. Default background color was always green, I had to override it for every entry. Template fixed.
  4. The chokeberry picture was a blackberry, I let it be replaced by the default chokeberry picture.
  5. The word "none" became capitalized, I left it.
  6. "None" alchemy colors defaulted to green on some ingredients, I overrode them to neutral.
  7. Spacing around the / in Human Heart changed.
  8. The * in Human Heart is entered as a mod. I didn't see a better way. Superscript could be removed with </sup>*<sup>, but that seemed ugly.
  9. "Script Effect" now shows on Poisoned Apple but not on Chokeberry. I left other ingredients without the words.

Joram 01:07, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Unicorn Horn

Although it's listed as an ingredient, it CANNOT be used in alchemy. It never appears in the list of available ingredients. 67.193.109.219 22:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Still, it has alchemical properties so I think that it is appropriate for it to be listed here. --S'drassa T2M 05:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Harvesting Success

The information about ingredients appears to say that harvesting success is random. However, it appears to me that success rate is different for different plants. For example, harvesting viper's bugloss is nearly always successful for me, but much less so for fly amanita. Is this correct, or just my perception? Murphdrm — Unsigned comment by 69.146.62.167 (talk) on 16 December 2010

It's not just your perception. The "H%" column in the table on this article is the %age chance you'll harvest the ingredient successfully. There's an 80% chance of getting an ingredient from Viper's Bugloss but only 50% for Fly Amanita. Those values are taken straight from the game files, so it's not just guesswork. rpeh •TCE 04:51, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I guess I just didn't pay close enough attention to the chart. Murphdrm

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