Morrowind talk:Leveled Lists

Illegible page

Wow, is it just me, or is this page just illegible if you can't read console? Can we somehow make this more "accessable" for Xbox player and non code-junkies? Maybe give an intro with a fuller explanation? I mean, the info is grand and helpful, but I can't quite make heads or tails of it! Where are these found? How are these chosen? Please help a poor fool! Somercy 10:38, 5 September 2007 (EDT)

The purpose of this page is so that later on, when I need to say that, say, a merchant sells a random set of leveled weapons, I can link to the appropriate lists on this page and you can see for yourself what weapons he might have for sale. Rather than trying to put all that info on the merchant's page, it makes more sense to have it all in one place. I've made everything cross-linked, so it's relatively simple to navigate nested leveled lists (or at least will be once they're all entered.), and all items link to their respective item pages, so you can see exactly what you might get. The only thing missing is a more detailed explanation of the ≤Lvl, Each, and %0 columns, and the mechanics behind them. That's a little trickier, and I'm not sure I even understand them completely. Hopefully we'll be able to get somebody to fill that stuff in. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 10:58, 5 September 2007 (EDT)

Oh, so these are merchantly things? I see. That's the info I'd wanted. Thanks, Lurlock-my-love! Somercy 11:01, 5 September 2007 (EDT)

Well, not just merchants. They're also used in loot in chests and stuff, as well as leveled/random gear for NPCs in the game, etc. Morrowind isn't nearly as leveled as Oblivion is (practically everything in Oblivion depends on leveled lists), but there's still a good deal of leveled gear out there. This is an attempt to document that. The page is not meant to be read on its own, though. It is a reference which will be used by other pages. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:19, 5 September 2007 (EDT)

All items? (?Lvl)

I'm still confused as to how this works - is it at your level, below and up to your level, or your level and over? Alphax 12:33, 8 December 2007 (EST)

Yes, I find the legend at the top of the page confusing as well. Maybe someone can put a couple of examples on how this lists are calculated. --DrPhoton 05:25, 9 December 2007 (EST)

Well, I can try. Let's start by using the lists in the l_n_wpn_missile_ series as examples. Ignore the ?Lvl, Each, and %0 columns for the moment, and concentrate on the Lvl and Item columns. The 'Lvl' indicated is the lowest level at which the item will appear. What this means is that where you encounter the l_n_wpn_missile_arrow list, you will find Chitin Arrows if you are either level 1 or 2, you will find Iron Arrows if you are level 3 or 4, and so on. Where you have multiple items listed at the same level, such as in l_n_wpn_missile_bow, where you have both a Long Bow and a Chitin Short Bow at level 1, you will find one of the items, chosen at random - so in this example, you will find either a Long Bow or a Chitin Short Bow.

Under normal circumstances, you will only find one of the items, and only one of those that are listed at the highest level at or below your current level - so on the l_n_wpn_missile_bow list, if you are level 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10, you will always find a Steel Long Bow. Similarly, on the l_n_wpn_missile_thrown list, if you are level 6 or 7, you will find either Steel Darts or Silver Throwing Stars, but you will not find Chitin Throwing Stars or Iron Throwing Knives.

However, this behaviour is altered by the other three columns - ?Lvl, Each, and %0. Let's take these in turn. Where the ?Lvl is 'Yes', every item that is listed at or below your level is checked. This means that on the l_n_wpn_missile_arrow list, if you are level 5, 6, or 7, you will find Steel Arrows, Iron Arrows, or Chitin Arrows. I don't know what the percentages used are, but you have a better chance of finding the items with a higher level than those with a lower level (so you are more likely to find Steel Arrows than either Iron or Chitin, in this case).

Normally, a leveled list will only provide you with one item (or type of item in the case of ammunition), but when the Each column is 'Yes', each item is checked independently. What this means is, where you encounter the l_n_wpn_missile_xbow, if you are level 14 or higher, you may find both a Steel Crossbow and a Dwarven Crossbow. Of course, you may only find a Steel Crossbow, and you may only find a Dwarven Crossbow, but you will always find something. Which brings us to...

... the %0 column. Normally this is 0, which means that you will always find at least one item from the list. However, if it is > 0, you may not find anything. As far as I understand, how it works depends on whether the Each column is 'Yes' or 'No'. If the Each column is 'No', then it is a simple 'x% chance of finding nothing'. If the Each column is 'Yes', it is an 'x% chance of not finding each of the items on the list'. Let's move back to the top of the page, and look at the Imperial Guard Random Helmet list. This has two items, both at level 1, with Each set to 'Yes' and %0 at 20. Having Each set to 'Yes' means that you could possibly find both an Imperial Steel Helmet and an Imperial Chain Coif. If the %0 column was 0, this would mean that you have roughly a 33% chance of finding an Imperial Steel Helmet, a 33% chance of finding an Imperial Chain Coif, and a 33% chance of finding both. However, because you have a %0 of 20, this means that the chance of finding each of the items is reduced by 20% - so you have approximately a 27% chance of finding an Imperial Steel Helmet (33% - 20% of 33%), a 27% chance of finding an Imperial Chain Coif, and a 20% chance of finding both (33% - (20% of 33% * 2)), leaving a 27% chance of finding nothing. (Note: These percentages may not be completely accurate!).

Rather more simply, if Each were set to 'No', the %0 of 20 would mean that you have a 20% chance of not finding anything, and thus an 80% chance of finding either an Imperial Steel Helmet or an Imperial Chain Coif.

Hope that helps. --Gaebrial 08:56, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Thanks, I've changed the legend on the page. So it appears that if "All < PC Level" is turned off, the game is levelled in the same way that Oblivion is (not that I've played Oblivion)... Alphax 09:19, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Ok, my last comment was a bit short, but not wrong. The explanation IS wrong and I corrected it on the main page. Karl1965 04:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Clarification- Leveled lists, or stacks of leveled lists, can be in inventories or containers; when the creature is initialized or the container is searched, those lists are evaluated to determine what items are present. If only one list is present, then Each does nothing. If a stack of list is present, then if Each is no, only one pass is made, and a stack of the item determined is created. If Each is yes, then the list is iterated a number of times and all of the results are present. if %0 is not 0, then each time the list is called there is a %0 chance of getting nothing- if Each is no, that chance is checked once, but if each is yes, that chance is checked for every item generated. 76.119.147.254 00:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Split

I know this isn't the most important of pages, however, it is massive:

WARNING: This page is 130 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections.

I think this page needs to be broken down into individual sections via new pages. The only problem would be the need to fix all the links directed here. And feedback? --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 06:23, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

It might be worth it. A quick test shows that splitting it in two with the "random Series" moving to a new page would drop this one to around 70K with the other being 60K. If those are still judged as being too big, you could split it down even further, with each smaller series becoming a separate page.

Fixing the links isn't problematic: NepheleBot or RoBoT can do those without too much difficulty. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Are there any further thoughts on this? If there are no objections, I'll go ahead with the split I described above. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Not sure why the split tag was nuked, but I just found this page from Special:LongPages and it should definitely be split. Splitting out each section and transcluding back might be another way to go. Joram 21:10, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

l_m_potion

Should we assume that any potions *not* defined as [Spoiled, Bargain, Cheap, Standard, Cure, Quality or Exclusive] are *not* generated by this list? I'm thinking specifically of the Potion of Fool's Luck, though there may be others falling outside of the above categories. Thanks. 75.47.98.211 21:26, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Fool's Luck is p_almsivi_intervention_s and it is in the "5" list with most of the rest of the "s" potions. There are a few like that, p_mark_s for instance, that are in "9" with the "q" potions. --Brf 23:22, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Relevance?

I wonder if this page should be here at all. I mean: 'Morrowind - Items', that is gameplay information. No player will ever see the levelled items and this is not the modding section. Do I miss something? Karl1965 04:37, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Why not? rpeh •T•C•E• 11:17, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

better intro

I see people have already raised the issue but the intro is just illegible. I cant understand what the following paragraph mean: "=Lvl - Indicates that every item in the list under or at your level is available. Otherwise, only items with the highest level at or below your level will be found. Nested leveled items are not evaluated if they do not meet the level condition, even if they hold items that would."

can it be changed to something like: "yes indicates that an item in list is only available if the character level is equal to or higher than the item level. no indicates ....."

I'd edit this, but I didn't quite get the paragraph, and I don't want to make mistakes.

--79.177.153.248 09:39, 21 July 2014 (GMT)

Random loot special gold

I've discovered that in radom loot special table game gives you 1 gold instead of 100 gold. In TES there is Gold_100 value of that data not "Gold_001" 100, so game gives you 1 gold instead of 100 gold. Can be fixed in mods. — Unsigned comment by Kade48 (talk • contribs) at 01:13 on 5 January 2024

You are correct. I tested this in-game with by adding a container with just that leveled list and received 1 gold. A search of my modding Discords and the OpenMW forum found similar results with Gold_010, Gold_025, and Gold_100. I added the bug to the page and set it as confirmed, since I confirmed your report here. —Dillonn241 (talk) 09:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Leveled Creature Lists

I've been working on a sandbox page where I've been encoding data for Leveled Creature Lists. I'd like to request feedback and I'm posting here because I figured the watchers of this page would also have an interest in a (new) page for leveled creatures, which has been missing from this game's namespaces up 'til now. In addition, I've taken the opportunity to attempt fixing three major issues I've identified with the current format of Leveled Item Lists and Leveled Ingredient Lists:

• Intro and keys are too technical; can be confusing to first-time players or people with no background in coding.
• Level and item lose alignment on the mobile site and the UESP app.
• Horizontal scrolling makes the page borderline unusable on the mobile site and UESP app.

Detail on the fixes available in the sandbox page's infobox.

Currently, I'd like to request feedback regarding two different approaches to displaying info on leveled lists:

• Do we want to retain the tabular format? (see #BM_Series and #DB Series)
  • Pro: Intuitive; table borders provide a good visual separation.
  • Con: In UESP app, table borders not shown; we lose the aforementioned benefit.
  • Con: In the mobile site, {{Columns}} does not work, which results in a single column for the list entries, which results in too much vertical whitespace for the leftmost columns.
  • Con: For both UESP app and mobile site (as well as the status quo), horizontal scrolling is also an issue.
• Or do we want to explore presenting the info in a non-tabular format? (see #EX Series)
  • Pro: Looks okay (ie. functional) on UESP app and mobile site. No horizontal scrolling.
  • Con: Looks weird on regular browsers. Not sure if weird in a bad way or just weird in a weird way.
    • Looks a lot more weird on wider display widths. On the other hand, you can always resize a regular browser window that's too wide but you can't widen the UESP app or a mobile browser.

Thanks in advance for your feedback. I also still have some redlinks left; if someone can create a page for vampire cattle similar to Bloodmoon's NPCs, that would be very nice and I'd be really grateful. Salamangkero (talk) 16:58, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Feedback from a browser user: For me, the presentation that works the best on your page is the #IN Series, with the leveled list entries presented in a single column. The other sections, with the list split into a bunch of mini-columns side-by-side, just doesn't work at all; I find it really confusing to have to read down, then across, and it's not intuitive at all. As far as using tables or not, that doesn't matter as much to me; the EX Series would work fine provided the list was presented as a single column rather than being spread out side-by-side. If you're worried about the "wasted" horizontal space, perhaps it would be possible to use the EX Series and present the lists themselves side-by-side similar to how you reworked the NPC Classes page? That would take care of the horizontal space while retaining the single-list presentation for each entry and (presumably) still work for mobile and app users. — Wolfborn^(Howl) 06:22, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Good idea! I'll try an approach similar to {{MW Wares}}. Thanks! Salamangkero (talk) 16:39, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Finished! Salamangkero (talk) 07:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Dwarven/Dwemer mismatch

I noticed that some of the links in the Leveled Lists of Leveled Lists weren't working properly and concluded it was because random_dwarven_armor was trying to link to random_dwemer_armor (same for weapons) and the ingredients is using a same page link for something on another page. So I'm clearing it all up. Only issue is I can't be 100% certain which side is incorrect, so I'm making an educated guess. If anyone has a reliable source please correct. - Too Tired to Log In 142.116.18.108 05:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)