Lore talk:Pale Pass

Alduin's Motives

How is it "clear" that his motives are to prevent Ulfric's execution? The only citation is "Events of Skyrim". For all I've seen, he could very well be there looking to find the Dovahkiin and trying to off them before they are an actual threat to him.

So please... cite something that explicitly says he's there to stop Ulfric's execution other than "Events of Skyrim". Like a book, or dialog or something. Alduin's continued existence on the Mundus isn't dependent on the civil war continuing, for all I've seen it was merely a coincidental event that happens around the same time Alduin's return was prophesied, and was used as a marker in the prophecy; it didn't *cause* Alduin's return, it just happens at the same time. Alduin can still go about wreaking havok if you ignore the MQ and end the civil war. --MadCat221 16:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree completely, Alduin has nothing to do with Ulfric other than the civil war being part of the prophecy leading to his return. I removed that statement, as the purpose is open to interpretation (though it's fairly obvious that you're right in my opinion) and the reference listed was, as you noted, questionable. ThuumofReason 17:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It is explained over the course of the Main Quest (particularly Sovngarde) that Alduin wanted the war to continue so that he could devour the souls of the dead soldiers before they can reach the Hall of Valour. If you want some dialogue to back that up, I remember hearing the soul of Ulfric speak of his regret for continuing the war (I had completed the Imperial questline). I don't know of any indication that Alduin was simply trying to kill the Dovahkiin, and if he was he did a poor job of it, so unless a similar reference can be provided then that should be kept off the article. I'm re-adding the information with a slightly clearer reference. --Legoless 17:14, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

See, I'm still really not convinced that Alduin specifically wanted to continue the war. The Thalmor did certainly, and what you said makes sense, but Alduin doesn't really need a civil war to kill throngs of people, does he? I think it would be best if we just kept the bit about his motives out entirely, since it doesn't seem like there's a definitive answer. ThuumofReason 17:56, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

When you defeat Alduin at the Time Wound, he has to retreat to Sovngarde and he needs the trapped souls to regain his strength. He needs them as a power source. That was his motive, but if you're still not convinced then I guess it can be simplified. Besides, Pale Pass really has nothing to do with it. --Legoless 18:27, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't mean it needs to be simplified, I just don't agree that that was the sole purpose. Ulfric says something like how he shouldn't have fought the war, but that doesn't mean that Alduin's motive was to keep the war going, he could be saying that he regrets it because it caused his untimely death, which in turn made his soul OPEN to being devoured in Sovngarde. I just don't think there's enough evidence to assert without any doubt that that was his purpose, that's all. ThuumofReason 18:35, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Alduin's got all the time in the world, he could wait 'till he gets his fill even without a civil war... until he catches word that a Dragonborn will be on the scene. He could send any old drac to just simply raze the place to "perpetuate the war"... but the Dragonborn is a prime threat to him, even if he won't openly admit it. His only problem is that all these puny little mortal morsels look alike to him. That's how I see it anyway...--MadCat221 15:48, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Alduin only eats the souls of heroes who die in battle. No battle, no food. War = battle = heroes = Alduin chow. The war gave him the food he needed to manifest after returning to the world, and Ulfric's dream of one final war with all of Mer-kind that either ends with them in the ground or all the "true sons of Skyrim" in Sovenguard has to be the most appetizing thing Alduin has seen in the last, howeverlong it was since wherever it was he went. — Unsigned comment by Honney Boy (talk • contribs) at 13:42 on 18 July 2012

(←) Just an update on this, the information has been removed from the article since the Pale Pass apparently had very little to do with the opening events of Skyrim. —Legoless (talk) 14:08, 1 November 2012 (GMT)

anyway...about pale pass

is there a location for it in skyrim? i feel like it should be somewhere between ancients acsent and nightengale hall by the location given in oblivion. a ruin or something? for canons sake? — Unsigned comment by 70.211.65.145 (talk) at 00:14 on 19 October 2013

Considering the distance between those two places it certainly would be between them. There is no ruin, and there does not need to be as it is on Cryodiil's side of the mountains. The Skyrim printed map shows it though, and it is south of Helgen, the road just southwest of Southfringe Sanctum would lead to it but the game boundary is there. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 00:27, 19 October 2013 (GMT)

I studied the Fort Pale Pass environment and the Bloodlet Throne environment and I must conclude they're very similar. There's a path from Bloodlet Throne into the Jerall Mountains that resembles the path from the Pale Pass fort, just the statues aren't there (but it's 200 years inbetween and, as the article states, there've been avalanches). In its interior and a bit in its exterior the Bloodlet throne looks different than the Pale Pass Fort, but so does the Frostmoth Fort on Solstheim looking quite different than in the Dagoth Ur crisis. The Pale Pass is on the Skyrim map (as stated by Silencer) and it is where the Bloodlet throne is located. And the article also states that it is in Falkreath hold, south of Falkreath and Helgen, but if you continued the serpent's trail from Cyrodiil you would arrive in Ivarstead (near Froki's cabin), if you leave Skyrim from where Froki's cabin is, you'd arrive at the serpent's trail and eventually at Bruma. And the border gate near Southfringe Sanctum leads to the west of the Cloud Ruler temple. So in the caverns you actually go northwest from the trail into Falkreath hold, if the article is right. From all this I conclude that Bloodlet throne must be the Pale Pass Fort (its new (or actually its first proper) name given by the vampires that conquered it), but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 212.186.15.63 18:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

While interesting, we do not allow original research on our wiki, so speculation cannot be used to complete an article. --Ilaro (talk) 21:08, 22 October 2020 (UTC)