Lore talk:Meridia

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Non-daedric origin?[edit]

It said on the Daedra page in the lore section, that Meridia was once not a Daedric Prince. Can anyone elaborate please? -- 22:17, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

Meridia’s holdings in Oblivion are collectively known as “The Colored Rooms”. Another Prince whose origins may not entirely be outside of the aetherial, Meridia has at several times been linked to Magnus the Sun. The most famous account of this association is the Tract of Merid-nunda, which overtly casts Meridia in the role of a wayward solar daughter, cast from the heavens for consorting with illicit spectra.
http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/census_daedra.shtml Temple-Zero 22:27, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
For anyone wondering why the article currently contains information taken from an obscure text.... The information was added to UESP as part of this edit, made by Aristeo on behalf of "Shardie" on July 13, 2006. When I created this page, I simply combined the pre-existing entries from Lore:Gods M and Lore:Daedric Princes (because once upon a time, long ago in the ancient history of the site, we had multiple redundant entries describing Meridia, instead of a single article that was transcluded). I don't know anything more about the original edit other than what's in the edit summary. --NepheleTalk 22:53, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, there are a few pages that always had what turned out to be out-of-game material. Eventually, if I'd had the time (and hell had frozen over) I was going to go through to add cites for as many Lore pages as needed them - a process that would have probably caused this information to be removed. Right now I think adding the external source is the best solution until the debate is finished. –RpehTCE 13:16, 11 September 2008 (EDT)

() I've removed this little bit of fan fiction. None of this or any mention of "magne ge" appear in game. Only Bethesda is allowed to make significant changes to lore of their characters. 14:25, 20 March 2014 (GMT)

I can't verify the last sentence or so, but the majority of what you tried to remove has a legitimate reference from the games as a source. We appreciate you trying to help though! •WoahBro►talk 14:28, 20 March 2014 (GMT)
It isn't fan fiction. It appears in ESO. There is zero fan fiction in the part you removed. Jeancey (talk) 14:29, 20 March 2014 (GMT)
ESO hasn't been released so I'm not sure what you mean. You're using out of game fan fiction but I see you're all having fun with your leaper demons so I'll leave the lore to you guys. 15:36, 20 March 2014 (GMT)
No, ESO hasn't been released, but the NDA has been lifted for 2 betas now. So we do have access to a lot of information that will be appearing in ESO (if not, they still come from Bethesda). •WoahBro►talk 15:38, 20 March 2014 (GMT)
Read the rest of this talk page. This page has been heavily policed for inappropriate material, as have pages across the UESP. Unofficial material has a very limited role here (and no role at all on this page), and it is always marked as OOG when it does appear. As for ESO content on the lore pages, we're just being pragmatic. There is a lot of lore in ESO, and starting early on its incorporation is the best way to help the readers. You've misinterpreted a very old talk page conversation and made a mistake. It happens. There's no cause to get agitated. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 15:53, 20 March 2014 (GMT)

() Where in "The Exegesis of Merid-Nunda" does it say Meridia "consorted with illicit spectra"? I can't find it in the translations or exegesis sections. What it does say is "The Lords of the Chaos-Realms chided Merid-Nunda for her trespass and bade her return to Aurbis, claiming all existing spheres as their own." Now "the Lords of Chaos-Realms" are obviously the Daedric Princes. It says they "chided [her] for her trespass." So we have account of what happened after she left Nirn (with her sisters in Magnus's wake, no doubt), not of her "fall from grace" as others have put it and as the article suggests. The "Exegesis" is saying that, upon fleeing Nirn, she attempted to go to Oblivion. The Daedric Princes, though, had already laid claim to Oblivion as their own. But Meridia, not rebuffed in the least, commenced forming her own Oblivion realm anyway. And the way it reads, she created it using the fabric of Oblivion itself and by bending the light of Magnus (the sun, a portal to Aetherius). So, it would seem her realm is genuinely and substantially unique among the Oblivion realms. Regardless, my point is that the "Exegesis" doesn't speak of her punishment for consorting with illicit spectra. What it does record is the cold, unwelcome reception she received from the Daedric Princes when she arrived in Chaos (Oblivion) upon fleeing Aurbos (Nirn). Thus, whatever happened between her and the Aedra (Divines) is still a mystery. 03:46, 23 April 2014 (GMT)

The reference of illicit spectra was originally from Imperial Census of Daedra Lords. It was removed, but the paragraph was not adjusting properly. The Exegesis of Merid-Nunda isn't a replacement for the Imperial Census of Daedra Lords. This page will likely be re-worked with all the ESO info though. --Jimeee (talk) 09:33, 23 April 2014 (GMT)
Actually I think it's pretty obvious what happened between Meridia and the divines. They separated Lorkhan/Shor from his heart and created the concept of mortality and by extension, necromancy. This upset the Goddess of Life Energies for obvious reasons. Umaril was said to have a "divine father" and since he's a giant auroran daedra with an elf face and wings we can assume he's Meridia's son. It says a lot that his arch-enemy was a Shezzarine wielding relics blessed by the divines. I would also wager the wings under Meridia's robes on her shrine in Skyrim are also unfeathered and its meant as a sign of her 'fallen' status. 12:32, 11 January 2015 (GMT)
Lovely material for fan fiction or forum discussions, but speculations like this has nothing to do on the wiki pages. —MortenOSlash (talk) 15:54, 11 January 2015 (GMT)

"Colored Rooms"[edit]

Did anybody here think of the Black Lodge and its multiple red rooms from the series Twin Peaks? It could very well be a plane of Oblivion. Besides, we already know that Bethesda have taken "inspiration" from several sources when making Oblivion, maybe the red rooms were one? — Unsigned comment by Paddymew (talkcontribs) at 08:07 on 21 September 2008

Certainly seems likely. Not gonna add it myself, but I'm gonna draw some attention to this section.— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 23:03 on 31 October 2008
I regret to inform you that planes of oblivion are only found in the Elder Scrolls series, and The Coloured Rooms isn't a particularly strange name... So it seems unlikely that it was borrowed from Twin Peaks. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 07:34 on 26 April 2009

Ring of Khajiit[edit]

This ring is also in morrowind, found in marag tong 04:16, 15 June 2009 (EDT)Konstantin

But in Morrowind the ring is a reward from Mephala. There it has nothing to do with Meridia. --Timenn < talk > 08:04, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Meridia's origin.[edit]

If Meridia is an Aedra that means she contributed to the creation of Mundus in a way, anyone could imagine how? Also, anyone has any idea what "illicit Spectra" did she consort? — Unsigned comment by Vandral (talkcontribs) at 01:28 on 3 November 2009

Meridia’s fall from grace.[edit]

Meridia is a wayward solar daughter who was cast from the heavens for consorting with illicit spectra. This means she was once married to a Divine God but had an affair. In doing so she separated and scattered her radiant energy. Meridia had an unknown child from the affair who destroyed the Ayleid city of Abagarlas. Meridia was once an Aedroth by origin and as the Aedra can die her self-removal from the heavens may have been on purpose. In doing so she lost the ability of a Creator God and became Daedric. As the Daedric do not die (only banished) Meridia has a great and everlasting hatred for Necromancers and the undead. Meridia is benevolent in character and seems to be a good Daedric Princess. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 2 July 2011

Do you have a source for any of that? rpeh •TCE 11:21, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

() Someone requested a source for my post about Meridia’s fall from grace.

At http://dictionary.reference.com/ I looked up the words, consorting, illicit, and spectra. • Consorting means a husband or wife; spouse, especially of a reigning monarch. • Illicit means not legally permitted or authorized; unlicensed; unlawful. • Spectra is plural of spectrum and spectrum means produced by the dispersion of radiant energy other than ordinary light rays.

Go to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Sideways_Cave and read in the Notes and you will find; • In the ruin and around the lake you'll find Ayleid tablets which suggest that the city was destroyed by a "child of Meridia". • "Fourth Star Hour (time?) Terror-of-the-Most-Terror of Meridia come (came?)." • "Meridia-child, Earth root power, sea wave like (earth like a flood?). People-out (escape? present tense? imperative?)."

Furthermore if Meridia was cast from the heavens her original holdings would not have been in the Colored Rooms in Oblivion. Oblivion and Heaven are two separate realms or dimensions. If you go to http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Meridia you will read that she is another Prince whose origins may not entirely be outside of the aetherial, Meridia has at several times been linked to Magnus the Sun. The word aetherial, actually spelled ethereal means heavenly or celestial, like a star. At http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Annotated_Anuad you will find a Morrowind book titled The Annotated Anuad. Within the text you will read; The blood of Padomay became the Daedra. The blood of Anu became the stars. The mingled blood of both became the Aedra (hence their capacity for good and evil, and their greater affinity for earthly affairs than the Daedra, who have no connection to Creation). So before Meridia became Daedra she was once either Anu or Aedra.

Go to http://chorrol.com/on_daedra_meridia.html and read the description you will see the word benevolent.

Other links; http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedra

— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 00:52 on 5 July 2011

At Wikipedia, this would charitably be called synthesis or original research and disallowed. I think the same thing applies here. rpeh •TCE 14:29, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. To me, this seems to just be you interpreting Lore and in-game writings to fit your belief of what happened. Though I probably shouldn't bother, I'm going to rebuke a few points you made: 1) According to dictionary.com (and any dictionary, really) "Consort" can also mean "to associate; keep company: to consort with known criminals. Combined with these other two, this radically changes the meaning: to conspire with an ostracized or exiled being. But even then, we are just speculating. 2) No offense to the ES Wikia (I even edit there) but UESP has been around much longer, and (dare I say it) is most likely more reliable. Yes, you heard me right. Any info found there and not here is either speculation or is misinterpreted 90 percent of the time (like I said, I edit there and I still think this is true). It simply likes to treat OOG sources and even fanon sources like hard fact. 3) Those notes can be interpreted in many ways. Just because it says "Child of Meridia" does not make he/she a literal child. It could mean follower/worhsipper. Bethesda likes to throw little red herrings into the game; after all, some people in the game have be wrong if it is to be realistic (Bethesda staff have said this multiple times). Until we get infallible evidence that these series of events (and interpretations of them) are true, they will remain in-game speculation. 4) The Annotated Anuad never mentions Meridia by name.
This is why rpeh called it original research; it is simply not supported by fact. For the time being, the details of Meridia's "fall from grace", as you put it, will remain a mystery.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 18:13, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Dawnbreaker/Ring of Khajiti[edit]

Why does Meridia have Ring of Khajiti in daggerfall and oblivion but the Dawnbreaker in Skyrim. And why does Mephala have the ring in Morrowind? Why the inconsistencies?Dovahreid 17:15 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Maybe they just thought dawnbreaker would be a better reward, also there is no chameleon effect in skyrim. It could also just be a minor screw-up on the part of the makers of the game. RIM 17:19, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
thanks didn't think about the Chamaeleon thing. Dovahreid 17:22 4 April 2012 (UTC)
The ring wasn't specifically made by Mephala or Meridia; TES Daedric lore is a little funny like that. Basically, it was not their own creation, but rather a legendary item made on Nirn (the realm in which Mundus, the Earth, is located) which they took and imbued with their own power. In other words, it is not bound to any one Daedra. Hope that makes sense.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 17:59, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
ok thanks for clearing that up, i was just wondering. Its appreciated though. Dovahreid 19:25 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Another example would be Volendrung, it was made by the Dwemer, but is consistently affiliated with MalacathChronic 21:06, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Fact is proven by Skyrim[edit]

It states in one of the splash screens (location transition pauses) that Meridia is benevolent etc. Etc. Sniffles (talk) 12:12, 18 September 2012 (GMT)

Thanks for that, I've added the reference and corrected it a bit, according to the original text. -- Kertaw48 (talk) 13:37, 18 September 2012 (GMT)
Spiffy! I had no idea how to mark up word that! Sniffles (talk) 01:05, 19 September 2012 (GMT)

Meridia and Spriggans[edit]

The association between Meridia and Spriggans was removed from the page for lack of evidence. And the evidence does seem to be lacking; it's been almost a year since that was added and the page has undergone numerous substantial revisions since then, but no source had been found. I added references to the page last June and found nothing to substantiate that claim. Probably should've deleted it back then, but judging from my searches, there seems to be a rather entrenched belief in the fanbase that the two are related.

I'm not sure if this is obscure knowledge from one of the older games, developer OOG, or the most deeply embedded fanon I've ever seen, but people have been associating Meridia with Spriggans for a long time. It's caused some confusion more than once on the forums; see here and here. It's also come up on the official forums (the conversation which likely prompted the deletion).

One person here vaguely remembers that this is from one of the older or less well-known TES games; can anyone confirm?

Anyways, if there really is no source, this is the kind of thing that makes the wiki look bad. We received several complaints in the recent survey that our lore isn't as reliable as it should be, and we need to keep our eyes peeled and {{fact}} or remove unsubstantiated claims like this in the lorespace. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 08:25, 15 December 2012 (GMT)

Few Non-Evil Daedric Princes?[edit]

It says that Meridia is "One of the few daedric princes not considered to be wholly evil". Although I am not doubting the veracity of the citation, as I have seen this loading screen many times, Skyrim's lore on this point doesn't seem to correspond with earlier lore. Surely Azura, Hermaus Mora, Malacath, Nocturnal, or even Sheogorath can't be considered "wholly evil". In fact, only a few daedric princes (Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon) seem to be all that malevolent. Should this line be changed, or am I incorrect in my understanding? — Unsigned comment by ‎ (talk) at 01:03 on 28 March 2014

It comes from the game, so we can't really dispute it. As none of the inhabitants of Skyrim say anything about Meridia and no worshipers of her appear ingame, we have no idea how most of Tamriel perceives her. Also remember that the hero of the game is a special and powerful character, so even the most violent of Daedric princes is forced to respect them. --AN|L (talk) 01:20, 28 March 2014 (GMT)
I guess. I wonder why there's this discrepancy. It might just be a simplification for a loading screen, or perhaps they simplified some of the lore where they thought they could for Skyrim.— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 05:42 on March 28, 2014
I think the main factor here is that in the games, we essentially see the best side of every Prince, since we are useful to them as an agent. So naturally they would present their 'nicest' face to the player to get you to do their bidding as easily as possible. So the snippets of their behavior we see in the games is not entirely representative of their true natures necessarily. -- Hargrimm(T) 05:41, 28 March 2014 (GMT)
That seems quite likely, although it is well known that Sheogorath is not evil, just whimsical. Then again it did say "one of the few", so who know what other ones they included in that "few". — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 15:48 on 29 March 2014 (GMT)
While this is surely an interesting topic, it has strayed away from wiki appropriateness. Feel free to ask about it again on the forums. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 15:48, 29 March 2014 (GMT)